Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Apologies if any confusion, it's easy to get (mixed up) with all this stuff (pun intended)
If you have 1x 2channel amp then all you need is 2 more and the appropriate cables. Various amps have been recommended.

If you have that combined with an HA6000 then you have the potential for really nice 6 channel effects but with the additional ability to adjust the bass individually to each channel. You could have "Simhub" or "Game Audio" sent to these or a mix/balance of both to whatever channels you desire. Thats really what we can use the HA6000 for.

I am for using 4 of these HA6000 (have 3 currently) as they do bring some nice control of the output but also being able to see, the activity of each channel is kinda neat when building or monitoring effects operation. I also want the ability to monitor "Game Audio" in 5.1 to determine what every channel is doing for all games to see how/which games fully use "surround" or "subwoofer" channels.

On the contrary, thank for your input and dedication to tactile.
So let's say I run 3x nobsound 20, how do connect from my pc Soundcard to the 3 inputs of amps, using the other terminals which are part of 5.1 or 7.1 system?

Sadly I'm in a tight budget so keeping the ha6000 is not an option.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Hi All, I have a Sim Lab GT1 EVO on order and am looking at adding some rumble to it.

I wont be adding a lot in different places, just once is fine for me. Now the question is do I add one to the sim lab rig itself something like a ButtKicker LFE or Dayton Audio BST-1 or do I just stick a Drayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 to the bottom of my seat?

I am just after a bit more immersion when in VR and to keep the costs down. Also anyone recommend a cheap but decent amp if I was to go with the 40w DAEX32EP-4 just stuck to my seat?

Thanks,

Most amps are 2 channel so if I were you, I would buy two 40w exciters instead of just one, it also provides stereo effects which are rather nice

 

[jayk]

Most amps are 2 channel so if I were you, I would buy two 40w exciters instead of just one, it also provides stereo effects which are rather nice

Thanks, I have seen a 2x40w AMP quite cheap, would 1 exciter under the back of the seat not be enough for some kerb rumble effects etc?

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Thanks, I have seen a 2x40w AMP quite cheap, would 1 exciter under the back of the seat not be enough for some kerb rumble effects etc?

With one exciter per side, you will be able to notice your left leg vibrating when you ride over a kerb with the left side of your car only. Same for other side.
You could also try side g-load, the external side while turning vibrates simulating your body being pressed against your bucket seat.

Pouhon @ Spa is a great corner to try these effects, very fast sweeping corner.

And when taking a big hit, road anomalies or such, both shakers will shake, like a one shaker setup would do.
So with two units you get the best of both worlds.

 

[Greg Latty]

So I think

Thanks, I have seen a 2x40w AMP quite cheap, would 1 exciter under the back of the seat not be enough for some kerb rumble effects etc?

I too am wondering this. Ive decided to start my tactile journey with the shakers bolted directly to the underside of my seat padding. In the long term I want to go chassis mode on all 4 corners and extension mode with shakers on the seat and pedals. Possibly shifter as well. So I'm wondering if these smaller shakers are good for the seat back since it is directly going though the seat. What advantages would i have with larger/better transducers. Im thinking if i go smaller i can do 2 on the bottom and 2 on the back of the seat. Or if i go larger one on bottom one on back.. Which configuration would ultimately work better?. BTW this is a seat from a car ( Genesis coupe ) so I would be bolting the shakers up to the spring part of the seat cushion.

 

[jayk]

I get the idea or having a chassis setup for full realism, I guess a lot of the time we are trying to get as close to the real thing as possible. I also get that having one each side is preferable at least and that makes sense. When I am in my Radical on track IRL and i go over a kerb it is that side that feels the impact or rumble from the kerb, however that resonates through the whole car, because of the type of car it is. So on my sim I have a Cobra Suzuka bucket seat, so initially thought one under the seat, glued to the seat would provide enough of an effect for me. I don't want to be shaking the rig to much as it's upstairs and will start shaking the floor etc, I just want to feel it through the seat really.

I may try two, one either side of the rig, if I don't like it I'll move them to the seat itself. I'll see how it goes once my new rig arrives. Cheers all.

 

[jayk]

With one exciter per side, you will be able to notice your left leg vibrating when you ride over a kerb with the left side of your car only. Same for other side.
You could also try side g-load, the external side while turning vibrates simulating your body being pressed against your bucket seat.

Pouhon @ Spa is a great corner to try these effects, very fast sweeping corner.

And when taking a big hit, road anomalies or such, both shakers will shake, like a one shaker setup would do.
So with two units you get the best of both worlds.

Thanks, I'm not sure on the side g-load being realistic. When I am at 2.2G in a corner I am already squeezed in to my seat insert, I don't move, the only part of my body that feels the G-force is my neck. I'll have to try it I guess.

Will compare at SPA as I am there in March in the Radical.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Thanks, I'm not sure on the side g-load being realistic. When I am at 2.2G in a corner I am already squeezed in to my seat insert, I don't move, the only part of my body that feels the G-force is my neck. I'll have to try it I guess.

Will compare at SPA as I am there in March in the Radical.

hehe lucky you, but bear in mind tactile feedback improves inmersion, not realism. It´s all about trickying your mind in order to improve the experience within realistic limits.
Regarding the harness squeeze you mention, guess what. People spend a lot of money of motion platforms, and one $15 detail which improves A LOT the experience is having an O-ring bolted to the back frame, so harnesses get attached there; then once the platform leans forward under braking, harnesses get tighter and tighter.
Of course it´s not what you experience on track, but it adds up. And getting neck under pressure doesn´t seem simple to do, even with arduino lol

 

[jayk]

hehe lucky you, but bear in mind tactile feedback improves inmersion, not realism. It´s all about trickying your mind in order to improve the experience within realistic limits.
Regarding the harness squeeze you mention, guess what. People spend a lot of money of motion platforms, and one $15 detail which improves A LOT the experience is having an O-ring bolted to the back frame, so harnesses get attached there; then once the platform leans forward under braking, harnesses get tighter and tighter.
Of course it´s not what you experience on track, but it adds up. And getting neck under pressure doesn´t seem simple to do, even with arduino lol

I get what your saying. I'll give it a try as I've not tried this before. So one exciter per side, where would you mount these on a sim lab GT1 EVO? Also I've seen an amp which has 2 Channels and does 2x40w output. Would that be sufficient?

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I get what your saying. I'll give it a try as I've not tried this before. So one exciter per side, where would you mount these on a sim lab GT1 EVO? Also I've seen an amp which has 2 Channels and does 2x40w output. Would that be sufficient?

I would put them over your shoulders, sides(close to the bucket lateral bases so to speak, by the side of your thighs) or buttocks.

A decent amp is this, as per thread recommendations
https://www.amazon.es/nobsound-Amplifier-Bluetooth-Amplificador-Potencia/dp/B07JRF121J/
Around 60€.

 

[Mr Latte]

On the contrary, thank for your input and dedication to tactile.
So let's say I run 3x nobsound 20, how do connect from my pc Soundcard to the 3 inputs of amps, using the other terminals which are part of 5.1 or 7.1 system?

Sadly I'm in a tight budget so keeping the ha6000 is not an option.

Its actually very simple once you have the correct cables to suit the soundcard and amps the user requires for their own hardware.

Lets assume you have a 5.1 sound card then this will most likely require:
3x 3.5mm-Stereo Male 1/4" Jacks (some cards differ)

You connect the Stereo/Cen-Sub/Surround outputs from the soundcard being used for Simhub/Shakeit
to the six inputs on the back of the HA6000. This allows you to monitor each channel and apply more bass if desired via the HA6000 controls.

So now what you need is cables to output from the HA6000 to your amps inputs.
For the Nobsound all you need is 3x 1/4" Jacks - Stereo RCA connections. With this done your audio from Simhub/Shakeit is routing into and out of the HA6000 so any adjustments you make via the HA6000 will alter the output for each individual channel.

Benefits:
You can now easily alter the gain and bass/treble for each shaker/transducer on the fly without having to make changes to sliders in the software. Once you have pretty good working effects using suitable frequencies then this can be quite handy for real-time adjustments on a per-channel basis.

What about mixing game audio?
This is also simple, all you do is duplicate your stereo audio output from your primary audio soundcard. Take the duplicate cables and connect it to the XLR (Main Inputs) on the HA6000. That is all, but once done you can then use the controls on the HA6000 to also send a mix if desired to any of the 6 channels. Or if you wanted you could have "game audio-tactile" be output to transducers/exciters as dedicated roles. It certainly is a good thing for those liking to experiment a little and take the benefits each can bring.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Its actually very simple once you have the correct cables to suit the soundcard and amps the user requires for their own hardware.

Lets assume you have a 5.1 sound card then this will most likely require:
3x 3.5mm-Stereo Male 1/4" Jacks (some cards differ)

You connect the Stereo/Cen-Sub/Surround outputs from the soundcard being used for Simhub/Shakeit
to the six inputs on the back of the HA6000. This allows you to monitor each channel and apply more bass if desired via the HA6000 controls.

So now what you need is cables to output from the HA6000 to your amps inputs.
For the Nobsound all you need is 3x 1/4" Jacks - Stereo RCA connections. With this done your audio from Simhub/Shakeit is routing into and out of the HA6000 so any adjustments you make via the HA6000 will alter the output for each individual channel.

Benefits:
You can now easily alter the gain and bass/treble for each shaker/transducer on the fly without having to make changes to sliders in the software. Once you have pretty good working effects using suitable frequencies then this can be quite handy for real-time adjustments on a per-channel basis.

What about mixing game audio?
This is also simple, all you do is duplicate your stereo audio output from your primary audio soundcard. Take the duplicate cables and connect it to the XLR (Main Inputs) on the HA6000. That is all, but once done you can then use the controls on the HA6000 to also send a mix if desired to any of the 6 channels. Or if you wanted you could have "game audio-tactile" be output to transducers/exciters as dedicated roles. It certainly is a good thing for those liking to experiment a little and take the benefits each can bring.

All right sir. The mixing audio stuff appeals to me after reading your comments about having feedback from other cars, grandstand reverb or those kerbs which provide audio but not telemetry input.

Dayton exciters are already at home, I want to try two of them by the side and tomorrow shoulders position.
2x Nobsound ordered and banana plugs. I might need new or 3,5mm jack extensions from soundcard to behind my seat, the place in my cockpit where I have decided to attach them.

Thank you again.

 

[gnoshme]

Well that was a pleasant $50 Craigslist find today.View attachment 347338

On a whim yesterday decided to start thinking of effects as "primary" and "secondary" where "primary" are some core mono effects like engine and RPM, and secondary are about bumps etc that are more directional. I took a single channel output from my card, split it to stereo jack, then into the MASTER of the HA4000 with these primary / core effects from simhub. I could then disabled those effects from the other channels. Now I can use the "Aux | Main" mixer knob on each channel to quickly control how much of those core effects I want on those shakers, and quickly get a sense of how much specific shakers can tolerate a variety of frequencies without going mushy and impacting what they are really there for. Anyone else tried this approach?

Unfortunately in the process of getting these core effects so uniform I missed that my BK Concert Mini that used to have this mono / solo job had had gone to overload protection and I proceeded to drive it to it's death If anyone knows if there is a part in these that is designed to fail, that can be replaced please let me know.

 

[Mr Latte]

@gnoshme

Simhub/Shakeits own "output mixer" allows you to place whatever effects you want to ANY of the channels. So you don't need a physical mixer to distribute its own effects in the way that you describe.
Just a matter of increasing or reducing the volume of specific effects you are using.

I suppose what you are doing, however, gives you easy control over their gain and bass without having to go into the software sliders.

What the HA range would allow is an "other source" to be mixed into any or all channels.
For example "game audio" and then boosting the bass if wanted.

Buttkicker may do repairs, worth contacting them?

 

[gnoshme]

@gnoshme

Simhub/Shakeits own "output mixer" allows you to place whatever effects you want to ANY of the channels. So you don't need a physical mixer to distribute its own effects in the way that you describe.

What the HA range would allow is a "other source" to be mixed into any or all channels.

Yes. I find this faster though. It's just a different approach. Treating RPM, Engine and Speed as "Other Source" through HA and deciding the balance between this core set of effects vs other effects specifically being used on other channels becomes trivially easy to adjust on the fly.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes. I find this faster though. It's just a different approach. Treating RPM, Engine and Speed as "Other Source" through HA and deciding the balance between this core set of effects vs other effects specifically being used on other channels becomes trivially easy to adjust on the fly.

I would recommend you do an experiment for testing to help determine how or what effects you pair on specific channels. Take your favorite 4 effects, have only 1 going to channel 1-4 and then begin monitoring their activity with the HA 4700 dB meters.

Ideally what you want to do is group effects that are not active at the same time or not consistently active together. If you discover effects that are highly active then you are better to place these on different channels. The most obvious is to separate (speed) and (rpm) and that will help with the mushiness or detailing.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Quick test session with Dayton 40W thrusters. My rig is a Simetik K2, so far with no isolation for the bucket seat, because I haven´t still choosen a solution. (4 M8 shock absorbers are the current option).
I have been using a Realteus ForceFeel seat pad for a year; it has 8 motors, so I´m somehow used to tactile.
Also yesterday cheap shaker in the lumbar zone with gear and RPM effects provided nice feelings.

Today I attach the exciters to the sides of the seat, with road impacts and vibration effects. Left and right. ACC with 2 quick races at Suzuka and Spa. No effects tweaking.
Let´s say 30% positive about what I felt. Yes the stereo effect is there, but it was like not enough info was delivered from shakers.

No further tests till tomorrow´s evening because of work, I will attach them to shoulders area, with same effects applying. Also I remember reading in this thread Dayton exciters are compatible with some kind of connector, is that true? Because soldering just 2 of them wasn´t a pleasant experience.

 

[gnoshme]

Also I remember reading in this thread Dayton exciters are compatible with some kind of connector, is that true? Because soldering just 2 of them wasn´t a pleasant experience.

If you don't want to solder you can crimp 2.8mm female spade terminals

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

If you don't want to solder you can crimp 2.8mm female spade terminals

Appreciated it, sir

 

[Mr Latte]

If you want to show or share the effects and settings you were testing with but if using default then you will not get the best from them. Much of how good the effects can feel will be down to how well they are operating.

"Impacts" may be going to both channels in (dual mono) and that may detract from the L/R bumps, depending on settings used, it is something you need to test and play about with.