Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[PlagueWidow]

Could anyone please help me think of alternative Buttkicker mounting hardware for my Simetik K2? Their mount (below) would cost $50 to ship. I'd like to mount it to the rail under the seat like they have it. The bolt looks easy enough to replicate, but not sure what the plastic piece should be. Thank you.

Buttkicker Support - Simétik

High density plastic support to mount your Buttkicker under the seat.

simetik.com

 

[gnoshme]

Could anyone please help me think of alternative Buttkicker mounting hardware for my Simetik K2? Their mount (below) would cost $50 to ship. I'd like to mount it to the rail under the seat like they have it. The bolt looks easy enough to replicate, but not sure what the plastic piece should be. Thank you.

Buttkicker Support - Simétik

High density plastic support to mount your Buttkicker under the seat.

simetik.com

What about using couplers like the one show here as the spacer. Long bolt threaded entire length down through the frame, a couple of these couplers, buttkicker, bolt. Either that or a threaded bar cut to length and another bolt at the top. Note that if you ever cut bolts or threaded rods you want to have a nut on it so that you can then thread that nut off over the cut to clean it up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XQ2Q3K...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[Mr Latte]

I have seen people use a socket and bolt that to your frame.
Shop around for various types/prices.
Here

 

[jayk]

I would put them over your shoulders, sides(close to the bucket lateral bases so to speak, by the side of your thighs) or buttocks.

A decent amp is this, as per thread recommendations
https://www.amazon.es/nobsound-Amplifier-Bluetooth-Amplificador-Potencia/dp/B07JRF121J/
Around 60€.

I've ordered this amp and 2 exciters. Is everyone using Simvibe to configure this? Also guying this will be 3.5mm Jack from on board sound card to the AMP? Any guides on how to set this up as I want to keep my game sound coming to my primary bluetooth headphones (Rift S sound disabled) but the vibrations coming to 2 Dayton exciters I have ordered.

Any help on setup much appreciated.
Thanks,

 

[jayk]

Also is it better to mount one exciter to under the seat and one under the pedal plate and do front and back config in simhub, or just either side of the rig or seat and configure side to side?

 

[sn4il]

Hi.
SFX-100 user here.
I'm looking to add shakers to my rig to run few effects like rpm, speed, wheel slip.
I have these shakers:
2 x BK LFE
3 x BK Mini LFE
8 x Dayton DAEX32EP-4
1 x Clark Synthesis TST209

I only have 2 x SMSL SA-98E (2x 160W) at the moment.
What would be the best way to power these shakers?? How many channels should I run with SFX setup??
I was thinking of getting NX3000D to run LFEs (DSP) and one more SMSL amp.
Please advise.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

I've ordered this amp and 2 exciters. Is everyone using Simvibe to configure this? Also guying this will be 3.5mm Jack from on board sound card to the AMP? Any guides on how to set this up as I want to keep my game sound coming to my primary bluetooth headphones (Rift S sound disabled) but the vibrations coming to 2 Dayton exciters I have ordered.

Any help on setup much appreciated.
Thanks,

Yes you already have different audio devices so you need free software simhub, where you can enable audio output to perform as shakers, no mixed channels.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi.
SFX-100 user here.
I'm looking to add shakers to my rig to run few effects like rpm, speed, wheel slip.
I have these shakers:
2 x BK LFE
3 x BK Mini LFE
8 x Dayton DAEX32EP-4
1 x Clark Synthesis TST209

I only have 2 x SMSL SA-98E (2x 160W) at the moment.
What would be the best way to power these shakers?? How many channels should I run with SFX setup??
I was thinking of getting NX3000D to run LFEs (DSP) and one more SMSL amp.
Please advise.

I'm keen to get feedback on how some effects may feel on an SFX build.
What you have could bring very nice immersion possibilities with some testing.

The NX3000D is the obvious choice for the large LFE
But what is your planned configuration? If you had 3x SMSL amps thats 6 channels but you have 12 units left (if counting 8 exciters).

You need to give some thought as to the configuration you want.
Would you prefer 1 large BK at pedals and seat or stereo on the seat and then mini LFE in pedals.

 

[sn4il]

The NX3000D is the obvious choice for the large LFE
But what is your planned configuration? If you had 3x SMSL amps thats 6 channels but you have 12 units left (if counting 8 exciters).

Thank you Mr. Latte. You are right. I would actually need one (1) more SMSL and run 2 exciters on one (1) channel.
Something like this:

I was thinking of mounting 8 exciters at the back of the seat. One Mini at the back, lower back. Two large LFE's under the seat. Two Mini LFE at pedals. I wasn't sure what to do with TST209. I did not like the way it felt during testing.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay, is your intention to have 4 exciters in seat base and 4 in back but these duplicated?
Give me an example of the purpose/usage of each unit please.

 

[sn4il]

No. I was planning to install all 8 at back of the seat.
I know it would be better to separate these exciters but I would need 2 more 2 ch amps. To be honest, I don't know what to expect. Just experimenting. I would appreciate your advise Mr. Latte.
Thank you.

 

[Mr Latte]

No. I was planning to install all 8 at back of the seat.
I know it would be better to separate these exciters but I would need 2 more 2 ch amps. To be honest, I don't know what to expect. Just experimenting. I would appreciate your advise Mr. Latte.
Thank you. View attachment 348070

Have you had a previous configuration you used without the exciters, or possibly with Simvibe?
It depends on your perspective, what to recommend. That configuration you show would be better if each channel was independent. The SMSL amps are quite high wattage, so care would be needed with them if powering the exciters.

If each unit is on it own channel then you can position effects how you please via the software.
It is also possible with advanced effects layers to have sensations move from one unit to another during their operation of small-high values.

What you are going to find when comparing effects for using the lowest frequencies via the large LFE that they bring much more immersion than the mini-units can achieve. I have many effects made in testing that use often frequencies below 20Hz and even below 10Hz.

To be honest most people's tactile and rigs cannot produce these properly but its moving things to a much higher level in performance as these low frequencies need to be felt properly for the best immersion of high energy effects. Be this powerful engines, speed sensations, bumps, or G forces.

The exciters can then be combined with them as this gives us much more "dynamic range" to work with for the effects we then use. We can apply layers for effects that operate to both units with suitable frequencies applied to each.

The seat would be best with dual LFE and will give very nice stereo effects if combined with 8 exciters.

I would say concentrate on getting the seat upto a pro level first. Perhaps eventually upgrading the Mini Lfe also to large units for the front. It depends on what you want to spend or how fast you want to go more "pro" with the tactile.

 

[sn4il]

I did use Dayton Pucks TT25-16 & Dayton Pucks TT25-8 with few Lepai amps and Simvibe.
That was before I finished SFX motion. I still have them but did not plan to use them.

he SMSL amps are quite high wattage, so care would be needed with them if powering the exciters.

Yes, these little amps are very powerful. They come with 36V power supplies.
They work great with 2 DAEX32EP-4 in series.

I would say concentrate on getting the seat upto a pro level first. Perhaps eventually upgrading the Mini Lfe also to large units for the front. It depends on what you want to spend or how fast you want to go more "pro" with the tactile.

Ok. Lets start with the seat:
2 BK LFE under & NX3000D and 8 Exciters on separate channels??
What do you mean on getting the seat up to pro level??

 

[Mr Latte]

Pretty much like you are proposing:

Pro Level Seat:
Having multiple channels via the exciters (4-6-8 units)
Incorporating at least one large BK unit or two for stereo with upto six having been tested.

Their is not a single unit available to buy that manages to produce the full bass range, this is why we combine the best "low bass" and "mid-high bass" ranges with these recommended and tested hardware.

Full Dynamic Range:
As a combination, this gives the user the ability to use the full bass range we can get from audio.
Thats all the way down to 1Hz and upto 200Hz. This is a HUGE benefit to how we approach effects creation as we are now, not limited like typical units/installations commonly enabling @ 30-80Hz feeling nice and frequencies below of above this not feeling so good. Kinda like how your "Dayton Pucs" would of performed.

Low Bass Control:
The DSP will be used to control the bass on the large BK units to be permanently focused on lower bass ranges. This has personal preferences but it is easy to save/load profiles on the amp that for example would vary the crossover and frequency range the large BK will output.

The exciters are good for mid-high bass
We then build effect layers for specific sensations, the deep bass, paired with the higher level of detailing and the combined functionality of multiple body regions having specifically placed effects.

With this, now you are ready to feel highly immersive multichannel stereo and experience effects made to utilise the full dynamic bass range. You also gain the increase in performance that reducing the number of active effects on a unit offers (in detailing) by learning which effects to place to specific units. This may be personal preference but we generally want to avoid having several effects on the same channels that are often active together at the same time.

I would recommend you get the necessary amps you want for having the 8 exciters on individual channels. Help can be given to get you some decent effects and you then play about with using multi-channels and body zones. This way you can experience having different effects on the unit/body region you want.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Also is it better to mount one exciter to under the seat and one under the pedal plate and do front and back config in simhub, or just either side of the rig or seat and configure side to side?

I prefer side by side rather than front/back

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

If you want to show or share the effects and settings you were testing with but if using default then you will not get the best from them. Much of how good the effects can feel will be down to how well they are operating.

"Impacts" may be going to both channels in (dual mono) and that may detract from the L/R bumps, depending on settings used, it is something you need to test and play about with.

I was using some profiles you among other users shared on Discord, I think romainrob´s Baseline

 

[Mr Latte]

I was using some profiles you among other users shared on Discord, I think romainrob´s Baseline

Regards my own, many of those are old, Newer effects I have spent a lot of time on since those have not been shared openly. I sought after some people with private tests, to help with ongoing improvements and new effects for feedback because sharing them on discord hardly anyone gives feedback.

The other issue is, on the discord channel, we do not have people focused on the recommended installation and hardware that I base the creation and development of the effects for. If I spend a lot of time building effects to have a specific feel/character then what I dont want is for someone to use those effects on hardware that will not give them the desired sensation the time and effort put into them brings.

This is why I have been pushing for individuals and groups of people to adopt the recommend hardware and not only be able to experience the newer effects I have been and continue to work on but then be able to share directly with them whatever they come up with, knowing with the same levels of hardware and installations they will work well on each users rig.

One other factor is that other people that have been sharing on discord, like for instance "romainrob" does not own large BK units. So he is not able to fully utilise and build effects that use the full bass range. I think this is where my own approach with this "concept" is different.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Regards my own, many of those are old, Newer effects I have spent a lot of time on since those have not been shared openly. I sought after some people with private tests, to help with ongoing improvements and new effects for feedback because sharing them on discord hardly anyone gives feedback.

The other issue is, on the discord channel, we do not have people focused on the recommended installation and hardware that I base the creation and development of the effects for. If I spend a lot of time building effects to have a specific feel/character then what I dont want is for someone to use those effects on hardware that will not give them the desired sensation the time and effort put into them brings.

This is why I have been pushing for individuals and groups of people to adopt the recommend hardware and not only be able to experience the newer effects I have been and continue to work on but then be able to share directly with them whatever they come up with, knowing with the same levels of hardware and installations they will work well on each users rig.

One other factor is that other people that have been sharing on discord, like for instance "romainrob" does not own large BK units. So he is not able to fully utilise and build effects that use the full bass range. I think this is where my own approach with this "concept" is different.

I will be working on my rig this Saturday evening, trying the shoulder position for exciter and installing another amp and 2 exciters more, probably on lumbar area.
Just checked I also tried your Engine and RPM V3 profiles.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Thank you Mr. Latte. You are right. I would actually need one (1) more SMSL and run 2 exciters on one (1) channel.
Something like this:
View attachment 348057

I was thinking of mounting 8 exciters at the back of the seat. One Mini at the back, lower back. Two large LFE's under the seat. Two Mini LFE at pedals. I wasn't sure what to do with TST209. I did not like the way it felt during testing.

what´s the benefit of using two exciters in one single channel? Is there a way via Simhub of sending different signals to them?

 

[Mr Latte]

what´s the benefit of using two exciters in one single channel? Is there a way via Simhub of sending different signals to them?

This is a good question you ask...
Its not so much about having multiple exciters on a channel as I do not really recommend that.

What I coined as "Dual Role" is doing this but its really about optimising performance for two different units and making better usage of low & mid-bass frequencies.

Channels:
A single output channel is just that, so all the effects placed on that channel would go to any duplicated versions of this channel or having multiple units working from that channel.

Lets say that we have a selection of 2-3 effects on a channel, normally all the generated frequencies from these effects go to transducers connected. So the effects during the output mixer/stage are combined into generated "audible sound" frequencies, they are not maintained or packaged as little individual effects to a unit to somehow output.

As the effects are now combined audio we can now control/direct it with crossover control.
This lets us have transducers/shakers perform optimally with frequencies that suit their specifications and abilities. So we can direct the "lowest bass" for example @ below 40Hz to operate only via a large BK unit and let the typical transducer or exciter operate as normal (decent activity from 30Hz upwards).

So by placing a large BK unit (larger the better) the more we can achieve from the low bass for optimal performance and then push this unit to only work with this range. While we then use the typical unit for the mid or higher (bass frequencies).

Doing this also reduces the workload on a single unit and additionally with two units being installed instead of one. While these are best kept close together, we create better dispersion potential of the effects.

It is more complicated, more costly but it can bring performance benefits.
Very few people have implemented "Dual Role", it is something my own build will do to extract as much performance as possible.