Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Alvaro de la Orden]

/Jonas, Sweden

Haha, we have the same hobbies, DCS, ACC, VR and kettlebells xD

 

[gnoshme]

Cockpit is here and almost assembled.
I want to put it over a 180x80 cms board to raise it from the floor. To that board I will have to drilll holes for supports in the lower surface, and the particular isolation method I choose in the upper surface.
So I´m guessing I should choose MDF over plywood, right? MDF is denser so the area around the drills won´t come "loose".

Good MDF is a wonderful thing, but can be hard to source. Advantages are you can shape the edge, and the edge is uniform unlike the edge of ply. Disadvantages are that it's basically sawdust glued together so it doesn't have the same overall integrity as plywood which is thin layers of wood glued together with the each layer having opposing grain direction.

This difference in structure shows up in different ways. 1) When using screws you can treat plywood like wood. MDF is much more problematic as it's particulate. If you look at stuff like Ikea furniture that's why it has all the fancy hardware for connecting things together. None of them rely on a fastener going into the MDF. 2) MDF does't spread load as well. If you put a piece of MDF on a carpet and stand on the corner you're much more likely to snap a chunk off. Each bit of MDF is only as strong as the glue holding the parts around it, as opposed to the layers of ply.

How that applies here. If your cockpit is going to connect using e.g. 6 isolators then I would use ply. It's no so much drilling holes for the bolts, it's the fact that 1/6th of the weight is being focused on a small section of the MDF and not spread across a wider area that Ply would do by it's construction. If you want to attach other stuff to the base, like power supplies, amps.. whatever might come along and take your fancy in the future, ply gives you more options for fasteners.. like screws.

You could still go either way, but you need a thicker, higher quality (and therefore heavier) piece of MDF to get the same structural quality as a piece of ply, although the bigger the contact patch, the less the structural differences matter.

 

[SultanZuul]

Haha, we have the same hobbies, DCS, ACC, VR and kettlebells xD

Hehe! Life at its best

 

[Mr Latte]

I came across this Subwoofer Plate Amplifier
That looks ideal to power large BK units at an affordable price.
It also contains DSP functionality.

*Available in different wattage outputs from only $200

The only drawback is this powering just one unit at a time but it is a more affordable entry into having amplification for the larger BK models. Being a "Subwoofer Amp" its primary role is to perform well for low bass which is what we want. It also offers unbalanced and balanced inputs.

Here is the DSP options/software in action.

For USA users finding the Behringer NX3000D (more costly than UK/Europe) as previously mentioned.
I don't think we can get much better performance/features at this price for the large BK units.

It lowers the starting price point for those seeking to go with a single large BK unit to combine with exciters and have the DSP benefits for advanced control of the low bass.

This is available in UK/Europe HERE but its price in comparison to Behringer NX3000D for UK/Europe is not so good. Considering the NX3000D will power two Buttkickers.

 

[SultanZuul]

So, after reading much more the last two days I decided to go with @Mr Latte suggestion to start of my build I also came to the conclusion that most of the posts are way to technical and too much information for me to take in and it would take me weeks to read up on everything I would need to know to understand most of the information in @Mr Latte and others posts But my baseline will be the same as what @Mr Latte and also @frebe suggested:

1 x Behringer EPQ304
4 x DAEX32EP-4
2 x Mini jack to XLR, to connect soundcard and amp
4 x Neutrik connectors for amp -> exciter
and cables

My seat is not rigid so I will need to attach the exciters to the frame and put some dampening beneath the whole rig.

I'm also considering adding one or two of these to put under the seat and maybe pedals for some more bass power:

Sinustec BS250

They fit my budget better as a BK LFE will be too much at this time. However, as I do not really understand all the technical information in this thread I need to know what I would need to drive these BS250s? I have a 7.1 soundcard onboard my motherboard, can I use one of the remaining outputs from the soundcard and will one of these also work to drive the Sinustec BS250:

Nobsound NS-20G

Or do I have to get a more powerful amp?

Sorry for my lack of audio understanding and thanks for any information and a great thread

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Another update on my rig while I keep waiting for the amp and exciters to arrive.
Using Arduino and SimHub, I installed a Wind simulator with 2 fans and using two xbox controller vibrator engines, I will install one in the throttle strut for wheel slip and other in the brake strut for wheel lock.
I´m guessing that would be enough tactile feedback for my pedal plate, so all others shakers and exciters would be installed into the baquet seat.

 

[frebe]

Size comparison for the "Dayton Exciters" and with some other units.
You won't believe that these tiny exciters produce the output they can. It's a bit bizarre. They indeed do seem to be perfect to be combined with typical tactile units for the main purpose of highlighting specific effects for greater detailing.







I also see a superb potential for some people to consider these on their own as affordable tactile and to have possibly even 6 units attached to a seat that I believe could bring better results than vibrational cushion or seat pads that use small motors.

We can have effects deployed exactly to specific body zone/regions for individual detection and combined immersion. This can't be achieved with the typical installation of 4 tactile transducers/shakers on corners or tactile transducers/shakers under seat and pedals. This approach is just further experimentation to tests I have already done for my own build. So not something I have seen others try to do (with exciters) but early testing has been promising and surprised me how good it can be.

Already eliminated the Monacor and HDN8 units while much bigger they are more restricted in how/where we can install them.

I will tinker with more on my seat in the coming week or so. Placing different effects to the different units as Shakeit (SBS) makes this very simple to do. Also comparing the same effect on different units for A/B comparisons with different frequencies and settings.

Additional Testing - Seat Back/Sides
2x Dayton Puc
2x DAEX32U
2x DAEX32EP


6x exciter units possible placement*. Seat base/rails section can be kept for conventional installation, using common or larger tactile.


More testing to help confirm but on an early batch of comparisons, I would say that the popular "Dayton Puc" is outperformed by both of these exciters. All 3 can easily be stuck on to surfaces.

Hi there, 6x DAEX32EP-4's have now arrived. Woho! I was searching this thread for recommended placement of 6 exciters. It he above still the "state of the art" for placement/priority of this type of exciter, with 6 units? (on page 76 I see two placed more in the middle of the back, but in that setup there are 8x exciters...)

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi there, 6x DAEX32EP-4's have now arrived. Woho! I was searching this thread for recommended placement of 6 exciters. It he above still the "state of the art" for placement/priority of this type of exciter, with 6 units? (on page 76 I see two placed more in the middle of the back, but in that setup there are 8x exciters...)

Well done.....
You are free to try locations to your preference. Personally, from own testing I opted to highlight my body regions, Shoulder / Sides / Lower Spine. Having 3 pairs of (Stereo) works very well.

If using 8 units, it may be a bit cramped for some people's preferences, although two central units would be possible to then use with mono effects like speed/rpm. Keeping the outer units for positional stereo effects.

Really though once you have the units installed, you can spend a lot of time playing about determining (for you) how/where you want to have effects output. Its quite a bit of fun and then saving a profile for later use. The idea is of course as mentioned before trying to get people to stick to the same installation formats. As if doing this then user profiles can be made and easily shared with users with really very little hassle.

I have been spending about 20hrs or more a week on continued effects testing. At present, the forcus is on certain effects. Improvements keep coming with added experience and some creativity.

Several people have been involved with wanting to test effects/updates I offer via PM. Some give good feedback others don't even bother to hardly respond. Those that do get more involved, they get sent new links to the continued updated effects I come up. Some want to share in adapting what they are doing themselves for better/more enjoyable and immersive effects sensations.

When we have a few guys that have this installation up and ready then it will be a good time to share profiles that have had plenty of testing and the quality of effects to are to a high level of immersion. I have an interest in finding/learning what others like in effects or prefer and develop themselves too.

 

[gnoshme]

Well that was a pleasant $50 Craigslist find today.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

HA6000 just ordered.
Tonight I will take a look about what cables I might need.

 

[frebe]

Just now started to play with the DAEX32EP-4's. Not properly setup yet, but hooked them up to experiment. I'm hearing a high pitch whining while I test the effect through SimHub. The effect starts, I feel the "rumble" from the affect, but the whining continues for ~5s. How do I get rid of that? Or expected? (I ended up going with the Nobsound 20G, attached to a Creative Audigy RX).

 

[Mr Latte]

For early tests with frequencies, try using "audio" and some of the test tone generators via PC software, android/ios apps or websites.

Reduce the sliders for your soundcard for higher frequencies. We do not want to hear.
I would also use 35-45Hz range to determine a good volume to maintain.



The issue you mention you need to show settings you are using in SimHub.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

any Behringer HA6000 users around? I need to figure out cables. From my soundcard to amp, I´m guessing this one is correct:
- double XLR 3,5mm

And then for output, 6x 1/4 TRS connectors to..... ¿¿??
My idea is making a small hub for all the exciters to be plugged there with bananas. But no idea how to change from TRS to bananas.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

By the way I´m impressed with 3M VHB adhesive tape, I thought it couldn´t hurt just attach a cheap Rockwood shaker to the back of my fiberglass seat meanwhile HA6000 and exciters arrive, and hardly 3 strips of 3M stuff worked very well, the shaker remains in position after trying ACC today´s DLC engine RPM effects.

 

[Mr Latte]

any Behringer HA6000 users around? I need to figure out cables. From my soundcard to amp, I´m guessing this one is correct:
- double XLR 3,5mm

And then for output, 6x 1/4 TRS connectors to..... ¿¿??
My idea is making a small hub for all the exciters to be plugged there with bananas. But no idea how to change from TRS to bananas.

The way I use these is placing (L/R Audio) into MAIN section inputs.
Then for 1-6 the SimHub channels you want to monitor/control.

For Main you need XLR as shown and for others you need the 3.5mm - Stereo Balanced 1/4" TRS
Like THIS . Just be sure all your soundcard connections are 3.5mm on some models they can have the front stereo pair as RCA.

Then from HA6000 you take another 1/4" cable to the input your amp needs
This will likely be RCA or 1/4" or XLR depending on the amp the user has.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

The way I use these is placing (L/R Audio) into MAIN section inputs.
Then for 1-6 the SimHub channels you want to monitor/control.

For Main you need XLR as shown and for others you need the 3.5mm - Stereo Balanced 1/4" TRS
Like THIS . Just be sure all your soundcard connections are 3.5mm on some models they can have the front stereo pair as RCA.

Then from HA6000 you take another 1/4" cable to the input your amp needs
This will likely be RCA or 1/4" or XLR depending on the amp the user has.

I don´t follow, sir.

PC Audigy soundcard -> 3,5mm jack -> XLR double -> HA6000 Main input.
HA6000 output -> 1/4" -> banana plugs for exciters.

 

[Mr Latte]

I don´t follow, sir.

PC Audigy soundcard -> 3,5mm jack -> XLR double -> HA6000 Main input.
HA6000 output -> 1/4" -> banana plugs for exciters.

What exactly are you trying to do? I am confused....
I hope these are help or way to list some things if you want to query or discuss.

The HA6000 has been illustrated several times in this thread for the purpose of:

1) Enable (Game Audio L/R) to be input as MAIN 2 channel source and output over 1-6 channels
2) Be mixed with a secondary source input (Simhub Shakeit) and output to 1-6 different channels
3) Offer controls to determine users mix level of two sources (if wanting game audio and Simhub mix)
4) Enables monitoring of each channels dB/ activity for individual channels or effects on those channels
5) Apply individual bass boost per channel (not the same to all channels like soundcard)
6) It is NOT an amplifier to power tactile (we can use it as a pre-amp to boost the output level trim)
7) All outputs still need amplification and cables from HA6000 - amp inputs
8) The 1/4" outputs are NOT speaker outputs.

It has never been stated that this device is to POWER the recommended exciters. I am assuming that as a (headphone amp/mixer) to enable personal mixes to multiple channels it has confused you?

• Soundcard(s) - HA6000
• HA6000 - Amp(s)
• Amp(s) - Exciters / Transducers

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

What exactly are you trying to do? I am confused....
I hope these are help or way to list some things if you want to query or discuss.

The HA6000 has been illustrated several times in this thread for the purpose of:

1) Enable (Game Audio L/R) to be input as MAIN 2 channel source and output over 1-6 channels
2) Be mixed with a secondary source input (Simhub Shakeit) and output to 1-6 different channels
3) Offer controls to determine users mix level of two sources (if wanting game audio and Simhub mix)
4) Enables monitoring of each channels dB/ activity for individual channels or effects on those channels
5) Apply individual bass boost per channel (not the same to all channels like soundcard)
6) It is NOT an amplifier to power tactile (we can use it as a pre-amp to boost the output level trim)
7) All outputs still need amplification and cables from HA6000 - amp inputs
8) The 1/4" outputs are NOT speaker outputs.

It has never been stated that this device is to POWER the recommended exciters. I am assuming that as a (headphone amp/mixer) to enable personal mixes to multiple channels it has confused you?

• Soundcard(s) - HA6000
• HA6000 - Amp(s)
• Amp(s) - Exciters / Transducers

Ups, it´s clear to see I had a massive misunderstanding. So I´m cancelling my orders and giving it a second thought.

 

[Mr Latte]

Ups, it´s clear to see I had a massive misunderstanding. So I´m cancelling my orders and giving it a second thought.

Apologies if any confusion, it's easy to get (mixed up) with all this stuff (pun intended)
If you have 1x 2channel amp then all you need is 2 more and the appropriate cables. Various amps have been recommended.

If you have that combined with an HA6000 then you have the potential for really nice 6 channel effects but with the additional ability to adjust the bass individually to each channel. You could have "Simhub" or "Game Audio" sent to these or a mix/balance of both to whatever channels you desire. Thats really what we can use the HA6000 for.

I am for using 4 of these HA6000 (have 3 currently) as they do bring some nice control of the output but also being able to see, the activity of each channel is kinda neat when building or monitoring effects operation. I also want the ability to monitor "Game Audio" in 5.1 to determine what every channel is doing for all games to see how/which games fully use "surround" or "subwoofer" channels.

 

[jayk]

Hi All, I have a Sim Lab GT1 EVO on order and am looking at adding some rumble to it.

I wont be adding a lot in different places, just once is fine for me. Now the question is do I add one to the sim lab rig itself something like a ButtKicker LFE or Dayton Audio BST-1 or do I just stick a Drayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 to the bottom of my seat?

I am just after a bit more immersion when in VR and to keep the costs down. Also anyone recommend a cheap but decent amp if I was to go with the 40w DAEX32EP-4 just stuck to my seat?

Thanks,