Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[gnoshme]

For pedal board, let´s say bump, road effects or kerbs, Im thinking about a normal amp and shaker combo.
These small amp and shaker units, like the amp I just bought, or the one you mentioned, with small shakers like yours, I would choose to set them close to brake and gas pedal for locking brakes and wheelspin.

Thank for your input sir, that small but powerful amp may fit close to many pedal sets!

I just saw HA6000 and HA8000 amps around 120€, so I may get one.

Yes. ABS and wheelspin for sure, but they are great with RPM / engine too. Give a bit of a "zing". Definitely NOT good for bumps because they don't handle low frequencies well at all, and even worse if the spectrum is already cluttered with the other effects.

K

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Yes. ABS and wheelspin for sure, but they are great with RPM / engine too. Give a bit of a "zing". Definitely NOT good for bumps because they don't handle low frequencies well at all, and even worse if the spectrum is already cluttered with the other effects.

K

they dont handle low freqs properly...

are you referring to these lowcost amps or the shakers?

 

[Mr Latte]

Everyone is free to buy what they want but If some people here are interested in following the concept shared then it would be sensible to stick to the recommended options.

Buying a mono amp and wiring in series is not the best approach to take. You are limiting 2x units to the exact same output. Why?

It is also a wiser purchase to get the recommended exciter compared to the Dayton Pucs as those have much less performance with higher bass frequencies which is important for specific effects detailing.

Dayton Puc 80Hz (listed range/charts not made available)
DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 40W Exciter (the best unit for the 100Hz-200Hz range)

How many times does this need to be pointed out?
This is the BEST budget option that can be combined to use in a multichannel configuration for (in tactile terms) very little money.

They have been compared, tested and chosen for reasons and is the most robust and best small transducer choice for harmonic detailing that we can apply for various effects.



Additional note, the Behringer HA8000 does not have the same control features.
The HA6000 is recommended for a reason too.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes. ABS and wheelspin for sure, but they are great with RPM / engine too. Give a bit of a "zing". Definitely NOT good for bumps because they don't handle low frequencies well at all, and even worse if the spectrum is already cluttered with the other effects.

K

Here you basically outline the main problems.
Although firstly to point out the PUC is limited with less bass than the exciters but also it has a restricted working frequency range. Yes lots of people have them and thats because they were cheap but people never looked into trying exciters for tactile and then using them only for bass frequency usage.

A single tactile unit, easily gets overloaded, yet using two of them in series does nothing to allow you to alleviate some of the effects to a secondary unit. As they are both on the same channel then they are also restricted to the same volume/gain and cannot be used for features like delay to have some effects transition from one unit to another for the added presence or bring directional placement over a seat.

Pedals may need fewer units to work successfully but my advice is to focus on the seat first and go with multiple channels. People can have very affordable multichannel exciter configuration working really well for little money. It only gets more expensive when we start adding units like BK models and amps they require.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

6 Dayton units per seat is a proper amount isn't it? Coupled with ha6000.
Or do you need more units to enjoy last rpm profiles seen on this thread and discord?

 

[gnoshme]

they dont handle low freqs properly...

are you referring to these lowcost amps or the shakers?

Just the shakers. The Dayton DT25s or whatever they are called. With 2 in series the impact of what they do well is great, but they don't do the low frequencies well. I think the cheap amps are actually fine, but I've nothing to compare them too.

Last week I used a frequency generator to output specific frequencies to both the BK and the Daytons to see where they are best paired with this amp. The BK was strong down to 20hz and still had some life to at 15. The Daytons had pretty much nothing at 20hz but 30 started to respond, and went pretty high.. I forget where to, the amps cut off at 160hz, but for me the high end "zing" of the upper harmonics make the pedal board come alive and I really like it. I imagine the BK amp is better at the lows, but I like my setup, especially the price.

Got a 7.1 USB sound card yesterday so have started splitting things off in Simhub to maximize what they are good at and splitting back / front and plan to work on different rev / engine vibration for the daytons with more high frequencies. (I'm using xbox one for gaming and sending the telemetry to an old laptop for tactile).

Ordered this amp last night and 2 Aurasound shakers. I don't need the bluetooth capability but just like that it's very similar form factor to the sub bass amps I already have and will mount up in a similar way, and take input with a 3.5mm jack in the same way. I'll compare them side by side and see if the bass amps have more bottom end.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XG33WPN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

K

 

[gnoshme]

Here you basically outline the main problems.
Although firstly to point out the PUC is limited with less bass than the exciters but also it has a restricted working frequency range. Yes lots of people have them and thats because they were cheap but people never looked into trying exciters for tactile and then using them only for bass frequency usage.

A single tactile unit, easily gets overloaded, yet using two of them in series does nothing to allow you to alleviate some of the effects to a secondary unit. As they are both on the same channel then they are also restricted to the same volume/gain and cannot be used for features like delay to have some effects transition from one unit to another for the added presence or bring directional placement over a seat.

Pedals may need fewer units to work successfully but my advice is to focus on the seat first and go with multiple channels. People can have very affordable multichannel exciter configuration working really well for little money. It only gets more expensive when we start adding units like BK models and amps they require.

Indeed. I bought them as an experiment before finding this thread, and before realizing xbox games could even transmit telemetry, so at that point I didn't even realize multichannel was an option. Going from a single puc to two in series was a no brainer $18 way to make it better. Watching your comments with interest.

K

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

3M VHB tape to attach the Dayton exciters to the fiberglass baquet just arrived. Going to goggle that, looking for ideas.

 

[groove200]

@Mr Latte im genuinely interested in understanding those graphs better , could you possibly explain them ? Loving learning a lot of the stuff you post

apologies if it’s a noob question .....

 

[Mr Latte]

6 Dayton units per seat is a proper amount isn't it? Coupled with ha6000.
Or do you need more units to enjoy last rpm profiles seen on this thread and discord?

The HA6000 is a superb, bit of hardware for good on the fly adjusting but is optional.

Nice Stereo
A user can start with 2 exciter units and installing these, lets a person experience stereo effects on the seat with direct contact to the body. This is a good start but yes for the back of seat 4 is cool but 6 is plenty.

People are welcome to experiment with having 2 units in the seat base or as stated before seek to bring some sensations to the knee/underleg regions. I want to experiment and discuss with others some effects to play around with. Ideally, we want to be clever in what effects we pair together on the same units/channels and which we separate. Thus attempting to avoid having two effects with similar operational activity on the same unit/channel.


4 & More
Expanding with 4 units, lets us separate two primary activity effects like "RPM / SPEED" onto different channels. Going for 6 or more units then lets the user, separate "G FORCE" based effects which can also have plenty of activity.

An effect like bumps, with good stereo imaging, is going to be more enjoyable if we place for example, small & medium bumps to one pair of units. For larger bumps a user could have these go to 4 units or all 6 for more immersion to better define larger bumps from smaller ones.

The fun part is that we can have different profiles, we can create/work together on and test to determine what combinations people will prefer to use or enjoy more. Really though it gives the user a neat way of tailoring how/where effects are distributed over the seat.

I have played about with things quite a lot with my own testing from having effects on separate channels to effects operating on various channels for specific operational values/scenarios.

Profile Example:
"Small Bumps" and "Wheelslip" = shoulders
"Medium Bumps" and "Speed Sensitive Steering" = sides
"Large Bumps" with "Lateral G" to the = lower back region

Transitioning Eg:
"Speed" could travel down from top channels to bottom as speed increases
"RPM" could travel up from the bottom to top as rpm increases.

We have many options that can be experienced. A user may just want to experience a nice RPM and Gearchange. So it's very easy to create a profile that offers a 6 channel engine, (not the same effect layers to all units) but using the 6 units for different RPM elements.

These are just examples of things I have played around with.
More units will greatly help to increase the enjoyment a user can have as well as bringing more performance and immersion.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Mr Latte im genuinely interested in understanding those graphs better , could you possibly explain them ? Loving learning a lot of the stuff you post

apologies if it’s a noob question .....

The vertical shows the dB level of the units output for the Hz along the horizontal.
In this thread (when first testing the units I purchased to compare) you will find I felt that the DAEX32U had a bit better low/mid bass but that the Thruster 40W model had better detailing with higher frequencies.

If we look close at those charts you will see the DAEX32U has higher level for 70Hz and up, both are about the same for 100Hz but the Thruster has a higher peak @150Hz with better output in the 100Hz-200Hz range. We want this for the "zing" element that we will use well on various effects and how we can make this work well with the lower bass sensations from larger BK units in the seat base. Their low bass will travel up the seat back and combine with the output of the exciters.

 

[Mr Latte]

Teaser Release
New Bump Effects Shared @ Simhub Discord.​

Small Bumps
These should let people gain high activity with small bumps and be able to use only the small bumps (still with nice bass) if they have budget units. Individual layers give more control.

Medium Bumps
These can be placed on additional units

Large Bumps
Suited for punchier transducers like Buttkicers.

Chassis Bumps
Mono bump sensation for deep impacts

*Activating all layers -
It is not the intended purpose, to activate all these on a single unit.
This effects set should let people of all types of transducers and installations find a combination that works well.

Use what feels good to you or your preference, experiment and enjoy!

 

[Ruttman98]

Mr. Latte:

Could you please help this audio noobie better understand the function of the Behringer HA6000? I had thought it was to control up to three exciters but not meant to power the exciters. Looking at the HA6000 specs, I see it is indeed an amplifier but in the description below, it appears to be limited to 8 ohms which is not as low as the 4 ohms required by the preferred exciters. Thank you for your knowledge and time & monetary investments!

 

[Mr Latte]

Mr. Latte:

Could you please help this audio noobie better understand the function of the Behringer HA6000? I had thought it was to control up to three exciters but not meant to power the exciters. Looking at the HA6000 specs, I see it is indeed an amplifier but in the description below, it appears to be limited to 8 ohms which is not as low as the 4 ohms required by the preferred exciters. Thank you for your knowledge and time & monetary investments!
View attachment 343175

It is a HEADPHONE amplifier as well as being a mixer/distributor.
We do not use this to power the tactile/transducers.

It does not say it is "limited to 8ohms" as you state, just that it can support down to 8ohms. I believe that is in reference to supporting headphones down to 8ohms. Most professional musical hardware uses 2ohm and 4ohm loads. I have not had any issues routing audio into these and then to the amps. With different amps powering 4ohm and 2ohm units.

In normal use case scenario it is to let a band have multiple users with headpones monitor what they want.
So the keyboards, drums, guitar players can hear their own mix level and adjust the volumes/bass/treble.

WIth the case usage we have, we use this as a pre-amp and with it we can mix the main input with the individual channel inputs to a vol balance more of one or the other. So that "audio tactile" can be going into this units main stereo inputs but then routed to any or all 6 (individual channels using "Simhub tactile"with the bass/treble and gain settings we want to apply.

With a multichannel tactile configuration.
We can monitor the 6 channels connected but if we want to only send an "Audio/Simhub Tactile Mix" to just a single transducer unit, 2,3,4,5, or all 6 connected.

So we gain lots of control to how we may want to combine both. Being able to boost/cut on the fly is a handy feature as well to user tuning of how each channel feels on the unit being powered. You can apply more bass to specific units if desired as well. Someone for example, might be planning on having 2 or 4 exciters and only 1 large BK. So in such a scenario they could boost the bass to the BK unit to the desired level.

Its very simple once its all hooked up.

 

[Ruttman98]

It is a HEADPHONE amplifier as well as being a mixer/distributor.
We do not use this to power the tactile/transducers.

It does not say it is "limited to 8ohms" as you state, just that it can support down to 8ohms. I believe that is in reference to supporting headphones down to 8ohms. Most professional musical hardware uses 2ohm and 4ohm loads. I have not had any issues routing audio into these and then to the amps. With different amps powering 4ohm and 2ohm units.

In normal use case scenario it is to let a band have multiple users with headpones monitor what they want.
So the keyboards, drums, guitar players can hear their own mix level and adjust the volumes/bass/treble.

WIth the case usage we have, we use this as a pre-amp and with it we can mix the main input with the individual channel inputs to a vol balance more of one or the other. So that "audio tactile" can be going into this units main stereo inputs but then routed to any or all 6 (individual channels using "Simhub tactile"with the bass/treble and gain settings we want to apply.

With a multichannel tactile configuration.
We can monitor the 6 channels connected but if we want to only send an "Audio/Simhub Tactile Mix" to just a single transducer unit, 2,3,4,5, or all 6 connected.

So we gain lots of control to how we may want to combine both. Being able to boost/cut on the fly is a handy feature as well to user tuning of how each channel feels on the unit being powered. You can apply more bass to specific units if desired as well. Someone for example, might be planning on having 2 or 4 exciters and only 1 large BK. So in such a scenario they could boost the bass to the BK unit to the desired level.

Its very simple once its all hooked up.

Thank you for the quick reply and clarification. I had been operating with the understanding that the HA6000 played a mixing role. Then I started digging because I think some of the other posters were thinking that the HA6000 could drive the exciters.

 

[Mr Latte]

No problems.

 

[Tangogulf]

Hey all.

I just got 4 dayton daex32u-4 exciters based on Mr Lattes advice.

I'm looking for some simhub presets. I know that somewhere in this thread that it says profiles/presets are availible for simhub owners. I purchased the software and for the life of me, I cant find them anywhere on discord or the simhub download page.

Can someone point me in the right direction here?

 

[anton_Chez]

In the Discord server, go to the #shakeit-bassshakers-setups channel and pinned are some older Mr Latte files. If you scroll down further there are some Dayton exciter vs Puc profiles that have effects for both included. Use those. Mute all the Puc effects and keep and assign the exciter ones where you want them.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey all.

I just got 4 dayton daex32u-4 exciters based on Mr Lattes advice.

I'm looking for some simhub presets. I know that somewhere in this thread that it says profiles/presets are availible for simhub owners. I purchased the software and for the life of me, I cant find them anywhere on discord or the simhub download page.

Can someone point me in the right direction here?

I appreciate you putting some confidence in "the discussed concept" with those purchases.
If your interested, in testing some effect ideas and settings then it is appreciated too. I need feedback on peoples like/dislikes or preferences with the effects. I only have BK installed at the moment so I cannot configure the (new effects) settings to suit the exciters. Been waiting to get a few people with the recommended hardware and then doing a thread focused on discussing and testing every single effect in detail, this is what I want to do and with effects built specifically for the concept.

New To Shakeit & Getting Started?
Look into the tutorial/help pages from "Wotever" for the software. Update the software to the newest release. Be sure to setup your channels for your soundcard as recommended. Spend some time getting familiar with the software and a few of those effects available.

Configuring effects?
The bumps above are made to work on various hardware or a multichannel installation, you can load them in as a profile but as with no other effects, then paste these into other profiles.

So from the software, if some effects are sorted in a folder, use the icons and (copy this to clipboard), then go and import a "Profile" with other effects you want to use and when loaded then paste in these effect layers (from the clipboard). We can copy/paste individual effects or whole folders into other profiles this way.

Once this is done you can then create a profile name but also be sure to export it to save as a new profile. Once saved as a profile you can always reload it as it was saved. (tip) make a backup as well of any profiles you like best.

The new (2020 Bumps Pack) released above will need the user to find suitable volume levels, but should not need alterations to the more advanced controls. Small bumps, in particular, can now be very active with small inputs in the road or saw curbs (more than other people's profiles that I compared with).

Those new bump effects, should be a start to let you experiment with different layers and volumes. Do change the operation "Mode" to suit stereo units and you then should have stereo "per wheel bumps" if you have correctly mapped your channels.

Get familiar with learning how you can have an effect layer active to one or all channels in the advanced settings. For instance try mapping impacts to all 4 units, small and medium bumps to only top units, large bumps to the bottom pair.

Let us know how you get on, I am keen to find out what settings people find they prefer to use with these latest bumps. They are not configured yet to suit any specific hardware. We can soon get you set up with a whole range of other effects via PM as well once you got the hang of it all.

 

[Mr Latte]

F.A.O / Buttkicker Owners
This new "2020 Bumps Pack" will produce excellent "Large Bumps" per wheel and also respond separately with any vertical surges via "Chassis" bumps using "Impacts". So any dips in roads or large sausage bumps are well represented with plenty of serious depth/power. It feels awesome on the large BK units but should also feel good on any of the BK models once a user has found a suitable volume for the individual effect layers.

This will benefit anyone from owning a single unit but can also accommodate placing these as "effect roles" to specific units as well for people seeking to use multi-channel installations. I prefer to maintain as much detail to each wheel and then apply "Chassis" bumps to large BK unit as this way we achieve a richer bass response and maintain a high level of detail for the suspension (directional bumps) but also individual response for"Impact" representation for the cars whole chassis. It gives much more varied vibrational feedback, rather than all bumps/impacts feeling similar.

The idea is users will be able to fine-tune, how they want their small/medium/large bumps to feel and then have a different felt sensation for impacts with large curbs or road dips/bottoming scenarios relating to the cars chassis.

*Tested on ACC
Different sims will need alterations to sensitivity/threshold to determine what range of telemetry value would determine what can represent small/medium/large bumps. This is something that will be covered in the future.

Those interested in the multichannel experimentation, here is a sneak peak of on-going effects that will be shared privately with early adopters helping with tests.

"ExciteR-Concept" effects (work in progress)