Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[John Bruno]

I would still like to hear from anyone that has experienced tactile from both DBox set up vs high end tactile as demonstrated in this thread.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I should have a first hand account soon that I could relay 2nd hand to you.

 

[John Bruno]

Noice!! I know you're a rally guy so it would be interesting to get your perspective.

 

[anton_Chez]

There is no way a DBox tactile capability is going to challenge a 3 x LFE & TST tactile build. It's physically impossible to generate the feeling of a large BK unit within the actuators themselves. You'll get a complimentary tactile solution when buying a DBox system, not a dedicated one. Haven't used one personally but it doesn't take a genius to ascertain that the dedicated tactile build, of that magnitude, will outperform the DBox hands down.

Whether the DBox solution is good enough to avoid having to delve into dedicated tactile is a completely different argument and only the person in that particular situation will be able to make that call. I will say however, that if you've been used to an elaborate tactile solution in the past, more than likely the DBox is just not going to compare since you already have that point of reference.

 

[John Bruno]

There is no way a DBox tactile capability is going to challenge a 3 x LFE & TST tactile build. It's physically impossible to generate the feeling of a large BK unit within the actuators themselves. You'll get a complimentary tactile solution when buying a DBox system, not a dedicated one. Haven't used one personally but it doesn't take a genius to ascertain that the dedicated tactile build, of that magnitude, will outperform the DBox hands down.

Whether the DBox solution is good enough to avoid having to delve into dedicated tactile is a completely different argument and only the person in that particular situation will be able to make that call. I will say however, that if you've been used to an elaborate tactile solution in the past, more than likely the DBox is just not going to compare since you already have that point of reference.

No doubt Anton, i'm not in disagreement and completely understand this is user objective however just wondering more if it's a case of ... hey, that's pretty close... or ... omg, this sucks... type deal. If it's the former, it begs a different question...

 

[clay_statue]

I hear you Metalnwood I myself have 3 LFE's, 1 TST 429, 4 Dayton exciters, 2 Advances and am looking to add motion. I've been leaning towards 6DOF PT A, but am now hearing Surge and sway / yaw are a bit over rated. I currently have a GS-5 and GBelt, and am just not sure if the DBox is all that when it comes to tactile. If that's the case, then i would lean towards PTA if not DBox presents an interesting alternative.

That level of tactile with a Gseat and Gbelt is like my ultimate end-game rig. I think those components together would be peak-immersion in a way that motion alone couldn't achieve.

Now that being said adding motion would absolutely be on the menu, but only at the very end of of the progression (which is where you are at now). But I think with that kit you've achieved you're at the point of diminishing returns.

 

[verticalflight]

Would like some advice...

I have 3 Buttkicker Gamer 2's mounted directly on my seat via aluminum arms - 2 underneath (left and right), and 1 on the back. When they are working, it's great. But often, they vibrate/rattle in a really annoying way. I have tried many different configs to tighten, rubber washers, etc.

I am now thinking Dayton's would be easier to manage. Mount them on via the tape, and they work. I have 8 DAEX32EP-4 exciters ready to install. I was going to do 4 under the seat (2 left, 2 right) and 4 on the back (2 lower back, 2 shoulders). I already have 2 on the pedals.

Since people are using LFEs and other bigger devices alongside Dayton's, will this end up being a regrettable choice? I actually don't want things to shake too much, I find that overwhelming the senses is not helpful when trying to use the body to identify/anticipate slip, lock, etc. I would say I am more interested in those data points while driving than trying to create maximum immersion.

 

[John Bruno]

That level of tactile with a Gseat and Gbelt is like my ultimate end-game rig. I think those components together would be peak-immersion in a way that motion alone couldn't achieve.

Now that being said adding motion would absolutely be on the menu, but only at the very end of of the progression (which is where you are at now). But I think with that kit you've achieved you're at the point of diminishing returns.

Agreed on the diminishing returns. I think the D-Box Gen 3 with haptics won't achieve the level of tactile we're able to get from the equipment mentioned, however it would be interesting to see how close. If the D-Box were say... 85 - 90% of what I have now, then one does consider either scrap all these amps and bolt on shakers for a much cleaner and cohesive arrangement, or keep select shakers / exciters mounted to the seat. Or go the Frankenstein route and build a 6DOF PT set up with all the existing shakers. Might have to add another 20amp circuit to run. Pros & cons ...

 

[RCHeliguy]

The idea is to have a variety of transducers that run at different frequencies and to mix them down so they support each other. My tactile system is very powerful, but when you dial it down to a comfortable level the transducers are capable of handling more effects without one effect drowning another out.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Agreed on the diminishing returns. I think the D-Box Gen 3 with haptics won't achieve the level of tactile we're able to get from the equipment mentioned, however it would be interesting to see how close. If the D-Box were say... 85 - 90% of what I have now, then one does consider either scrap all these amps and bolt on shakers for a much cleaner and cohesive arrangement, or keep select shakers / exciters mounted to the seat. Or go the Frankenstein route and build a 6DOF PT set up with all the existing shakers. Might have to add another 20amp circuit to run. Pros & cons ...

I've turned my motion down quite a bit except in Rally. I see some videos of people being punished by their motion systems and it doesn't appeal to me.

I'm very sure this is personal preference related. Some of you see may see this video and think hell yeah that's exactly what I want!

Exercise is good for your health, the doctor said. Follow me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MatthiasFulczyk/ Follow me on Instagram:... | By Pro Simracer / Matthias Fulczyk | Facebook

Exercise is good for your health, the doctor said. Follow me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MatthiasFulczyk/ Follow me on Instagram:...

fb.watch

 

[drvrn]

Reading so much about motion system and bass shaker that I will soon buy both system I think.

Not sure which is more important to you guys?
motion system first and then bass shaker or bass shaker and then motion???

 

[RCHeliguy]

Reading so much about motion system and bass shaker that I will soon buy both system I think.

Not sure which is more important to you guys?
motion system first and then bass shaker or bass shaker and then motion???

Which is most important to you?

Also do you do Rally or Flight sims? That could have in impact.

For track use I would say tactile first

For Rally I would put motion ahead of Tactile.

For flight I would say motion first.

 

[clay_statue]

Disclaimer: I have neither motion nor tactile experience.

I would go tactile before motion just because it has the lower bar for entry. It can be jury-rigged to whatever rig you have already, whereas motion often means a whole new rig from the ground-up depending on your setup. Also tactile can follow you across subsequent rigs.

Also for like a third the cost of your cheapest, entry-level 3DOF motion rig you can get a very respectable tactile system going.


Awkward segue into personal question:

If you all had to choose between a barely used clark tst429 and brand new buttkicker LFE which would you choose??

For reference I already acquired 4x DAEX32EP-4 exciters and a used clark tst239. The upside of dual clarks is that I can make do with a 1000watt amp for two clarks, whereas with a fat Buttkicker LFE I would probably need the 3000watt amp.

Does a tst429 put down the low frequency sufficiently to compete in the same range as a LFE?

 

[anton_Chez]

LFE every single time. Even without the 239. But since you have that, you'll effectively have what I have. TST 239 and a BK Concert. Also, I run them both on the NX1000D, the advertised 1000W amp. I have no desire to run my BK any harder and as long as the amp and shaker do not malfunction, it's enough for me. If you're buying new, I would definitely get the 3000 though, since the price increase is very small in comparison to the buy in price of the 1000D and it will also give more flexibility in future should you wish to power an additional BK unit.

The TST models will never reach the low hz nor power of a BK unit. Also, I think the large BK units are undersold on their ability to give meaningful feedback all the way up to 100hz. I would only bother with a TST unit if you already have a large BK.

Oh, and to chime in on the other debate. Tactile first, 100 times, over motion.

 

[clay_statue]

How high have you set the gain on the LFE channel? Is it maxed out on the 1000w amp?

 

[cnhoff]

How high have you set the gain on the LFE channel? Is it maxed out on the 1000w amp?

I recently have measured the power draw under full load on my tactile system which consists of 2 LFEs, 2 TSTs (239 and 329) and 2 mini LFEs, all connected to 2 NX1000D and 1 NX3000D.

Surprisingly, the power draw never exceeded 100W above idle (peak reading on a simple outlet unit), so i think although you probably need more power to drive spikes in certain situations the idea of needing several thousands of Watts for big shakers seems exaggerated.

 

[anton_Chez]

How high have you set the gain on the LFE channel? Is it maxed out on the 1000w amp?

I have my dial around 2-3 o'clock. I think it's around 2.30 right now. I backed it off a click or two and increased the Simhub volume from 50% to 60%. It made no sense to me to use only half of the software gain while having the amp turned up more than it probably needed to be.

 

[cnhoff]

It made no sense to me to use only half of the software gain while having the amp turned up more than it probably needed to be.

That makes sense, but on the PA, predominantly the output power dictates the unwanted characteristics and that would be around the same. I have mine at around 1pm, the pedal LFE needs a click less for a similar felt sensation.

 

[drvrn]

Which is most important to you?

Also do you do Rally or Flight sims? That could have in impact.

For track use I would say tactile first

For Rally I would put motion ahead of Tactile.

For flight I would say motion first.

I play track, rally and flight sims.

Maybe good motion system and a Gamer 2 is good.
Or Motion system and big Buttkicker.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I play track, rally and flight sims.

Maybe good motion system and a Gamer 2 is good.
Or Motion system and big Buttkicker.

Whatever floats your boat!

If you are seriously into flight, there is simshaker for aviators, but it does not appear to be in the same league as SimHub. I'll be setting it up soon to see for myself.

What's good is up to you.