Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Atak_Kat]

Sounds frustrating. Not an expert, but have your tried a basic/default profile in SimHub? Perhaps the issue is in the profile itself?

I run SimHub ----> VoiceMeeter ----> NX1000D----> Buttkicker LFE CT and Buttkicker Mini.
It works very well, and I love the control VoiceMeeter gives you (I run audio through there as well)

One thing I found (don't know why) is that the DSP or settings in the amp was causing some strange delay in the chain. Why do I blame the amp/DSP? Well, when I turned off the DSP on the amp, everything was synced perfect. I often listen to music and channel it through the Buttkickers while doing other things. There are some songs where it is VERY obvious when there is a delay of the signal/beat. This really annoyed me and my original theory was that it was coming from VoiceMeeter in the chain. Nope. Long story short.... I turned off the DSP in the amp software, and after that it was perfect.

I haven't messed around further to identify if there was another issue. I'll mess around with some further testing over time, but chasing all this stuff seems to be a really bizarre thing to me. The most significant benefit (I've found) is the ability to isolate and adjust frequencies to avoid piston-pang. This is a real thing. I can't help but perceive a bit of cult-like behaviour here, but to each their own.

 

[yobrevar]

Sounds frustrating. Not an expert, but have your tried a basic/default profile in SimHub? Perhaps the issue is in the profile itself?

I run SimHub ----> VoiceMeeter ----> NX1000D----> Buttkicker LFE CT and Buttkicker Mini.
It works very well, and I love the control VoiceMeeter gives you (I run audio through there as well)

One thing I found (don't know why) is that the DSP or settings in the amp was causing some strange delay in the chain. Why do I blame the amp/DSP? Well, when I turned off the DSP on the amp, everything was synced perfect. I often listen to music and channel it through the Buttkickers while doing other things. There are some songs where it is VERY obvious when there is a delay of the signal/beat. This really annoyed me and my original theory was that it was coming from VoiceMeeter in the chain. Nope. Long story short.... I turned off the DSP in the amp software, and after that it was perfect.

I haven't messed around further to identify if there was another issue. I'll mess around with some further testing over time, but chasing all this stuff seems to be a really bizarre thing to me. The most significant benefit (I've found) is the ability to isolate and adjust frequencies to avoid piston-pang. This is a real thing. I can't help but perceive a bit of cult-like behaviour here, but to each their own.

Thanks for the reply. Yep have tried basic profile in Simhub, but the noise remains.
I'd really like to know how to fully uninstall Simhub, so i can start fresh.
I have also tried running the NX3000D without DSP as well, also to no avail.

 

[blekenbleu]

strange delay in the chain

There are two significantly different DSP filter designs used for frequency adjustments,
namely IIR and FIR, where FIR offers linear phase response, but imposes delays,
since it is processing samples that will follow in time each sample being filtered,
while IIR processing involves only the current and already processed samples.
Better FIR results require more sample time delays,
where an e.g. 5 audio sample "window" requires more than 60 microseconds delay
even for highly optimized implementations, which many are not.
DSP IIR filtering delays amount to only actual DSP instruction processing time,
which can be less than 1 microsecond on modern processors.

Compilers can usually optimize IIR filtering to involve one memory access per sample,
while FIR processing typically also involves managing a circular buffer with multiple RAM
accesses per sample, with embedded hardware RAM typically slower than that in PCs.

 

[Atak_Kat]

Thanks. In my situation on a song with approx 100bpm, the signal was a clear half beat off. So estimated 300 milliseconds delay? Anyway it could have been many things, but the simple turn off of the DSP resulted in things coming perfectly in sync. Will sort through it another day.

Thanks for the info though.

 

[Peterpan6666]

Thanks for the reply. Yep have tried basic profile in Simhub, but the noise remains.
I'd really like to know how to fully uninstall Simhub, so i can start fresh.
I have also tried running the NX3000D without DSP as well, also to no avail.

You may have missed my attempt to help in a previous post (5120). I had a similar desire to rid myself of AC's Content Manager recently and no matter how many times I reinstalled Assetto Corsa and Content Manager my settings persisted which were causing issues. You want to delete the Simhub folder from %AppData% which is a hidden folder within your USERS folder. Good luck!

 

[anton_Chez]

@anton_Chez

Hi Anton, thanks for this suggestion. I like simple solutions and the neat and tidy is a bonus although my rigs cable management leaves a lot to be desired!

Some background info first: I am using Simhub on a Windows 11 PC. The rig is a P1-X. My BK Gamer 2’s amp just died and is going back for a refund. I have a Nobsound NS-01G Pro amp driving two Dayton TT25-8 puck transducers, one attached to the accelerator for when the back wheels lose traction and one attached to the brake pedal for when the front wheels lock up. This works well for me and will remain unchanged, although perhaps enhanced with the addition of a large BK on the front end of the rig?

I have just purchased a TST 329 and am having it shipped new from the US to the UK using Ebay and paying £90 less. I have a couple of questions and thoughts having done a lot of research last night and today. Here goes…

The BK Concert is a 2 Ohm transducer and yet the NX3000D amp only get as close as 4 Ohms as far as I know. The BK LFE is 4 Ohm. Does this rule out the BK Concert and Behringer NX3000/6000D amps and mean I should go for the BK LFE instead? I read a post yesterday from someone who suggested the BK Concert is the best BK transducer and sufferes technical issues less than the LFE and other BK transducers. Do you know of any reason why I should choose one over the other? I know the NX4 6000 is plenty powerful and does 2 Ohms however is laking a DSP.

I am using a Motion House 2UN seat mover so there is little room under the chair. I might be able to squeeze in the TST 329 but the BK LFE/Concert will bolt on to a metal plate I’ll attach to the seat mover where it meets the seat side mounts. Is your idea of using both a TST329/239 and a BK LFE/Concert simply because they will compliment each other and cover the entire frequency range or are there other reasons? If so, what effects are best used on the TST 329 and what are best used on the BK LFE/Concert? Given what I’ve explained about my rig are there any alternative placement ideas which I should consider and do you think I should go for a second LFE/Concert near the pedals?

Finally, it seems Behringer’s claim of power output are not close to real world testing. e.g. The NX1000D claim is 2x300 W and it was tested nearer 2X170 W. The same tester also reviewed the NX3000D and found the claims of 900W output were closer to 400W. The TST 329 is rated between 125-159 W so is a nice fit with the NX1000D however the BK LFE/Concert are rated between 400-1500W. Could an argument be made that an NX1000D isn’t a fit for a BK LFE/Concert and that an NX3000D only just meets the 400W lower range of the BK LFE (Concert ignored as its 2 Ohms)? So am I to consider an NX6000D and an LFE over a BK Concert?

With this said regarding power, I also read that Buttkickers claims of the LFE/Concert power requirements are over exagerated. It’s actually quite amusing when you consider the Amp manufacturers are lying about their power output and the best known transducer company may be fibbing about their power requirement. It doesn’t make life easy for the consumer!

http://[URL]https://www.audioscienc...ringer-nx1000d-review-stereo-amplifier.24908/

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.audioscienc...inger-nx3000d-pro-dsp-amplifier-review.14544/

[/URL]

Hey mate, lots to take in there. I'll try to make it simple and concise.

The Behringer amps are all rated to go 2ohms and they can all mix and match impedance with multiple differing units. I have the CT and the 239 running on each channel, one is 2ohm and the other is 4ohm. It detects what the unit needs and just runs at the correct impedance. I got the CT over the LFE because a) I found a cheaper deal on them and b) I already had the 1000D and having a 2ohm unit meant I was able to get the most power to it. The 239/329 only need around 100W continuous so they are more than fine with that amp. The BK might be rated for huge wattage but I know that on my 1000D, I am getting enough output for me to be satisfied with it. It doesn't feel lacking for my purpose.

Both units are used to get the full hz range, you are correct in this statement. I had smaller units and they did a nice job of a more all round hz range but now I get very low and very high hz potential. Which is nice for the effects some people are releasing almost on a daily basis.

I would try my hardest to get your units on the seat, see how they feel there for you, which should be very good and go from there. I don't plan on adding anything to my pedal deck at all. I'm happy with the feedback from the seat. I know what it's like trying to add anything under a seat mover, I used to have the Next Level V3 motion platform. So if you can mount plates to it and have the unit sticking out the back or something similar this should be able to give decent feedback. I can't speak for how well it will compare to the way I have mine mounted. Others have reported that a mounting plate does give significant feedback.

Hopefully that clears up some of what you needed to know.

 

[Peterpan6666]

Hey mate, lots to take in there. I'll try to make it simple and concise.

The Behringer amps are all rated to go 2ohms and they can all mix and match impedance with multiple differing units. I have the CT and the 239 running on each channel, one is 2ohm and the other is 4ohm. It detects what the unit needs and just runs at the correct impedance. I got the CT over the LFE because a) I found a cheaper deal on them and b) I already had the 1000D and having a 2ohm unit meant I was able to get the most power to it. The 239/329 only need around 100W continuous so they are more than fine with that amp. The BK might be rated for huge wattage but I know that on my 1000D, I am getting enough output for me to be satisfied with it. It doesn't feel lacking for my purpose.

Both units are used to get the full hz range, you are correct in this statement. I had smaller units and they did a nice job of a more all round hz range but now I get very low and very high hz potential. Which is nice for the effects some people are releasing almost on a daily basis.

I would try my hardest to get your units on the seat, see how they feel there for you, which should be very good and go from there. I don't plan on adding anything to my pedal deck at all. I'm happy with the feedback from the seat. I know what it's like trying to add anything under a seat mover, I used to have the Next Level V3 motion platform. So if you can mount plates to it and have the unit sticking out the back or something similar this should be able to give decent feedback. I can't speak for how well it will compare to the way I have mine mounted. Others have reported that a mounting plate does give significant feedback.

Hopefully that clears up some of what you needed to know.

Thanks for your reply. I’ve now read the last 100 pages of this forum and my head is complete mince from information overload! I did, however, find answers to all my other questions thanks.

I pulled the trigger on kit last night and went for the NX3000D for the TST329 and BK CT. Have decided to keep my BKG2 and fix it to the pedal plate powered by a nobsound G2 Pro and, as already mentioned, the two Dayton TT pucks for the brake and accelerator pedal will remain in place.

In terms of mounting, I am confident I’ll get the TST329 mounted to a plate under the seat which spans the two seat brackets in the middle. As for the BK CT, it will need to hang out the back of the rig on a plate which attaches to another plate, again spanning the two seat brackets and parallel to the first. This is the only way I think I’ll be able to make use of vibrations isolators by having them below those two plates and above the seat mover frame. But that particular job can wait for the time being as I’d like to feel what it’s like without dampening first so I can then compare before and after.

Anyway, thanks again for your help and to everyone else on this forum for contributing and helping me navigate through the complex and sometimes drama filled world of tactile immersion!

 

[miwashi]

I was wondering if you all are getting the gear shift effect with simhubs default profiles? I'm running it with AC, acc, ams2 and shifting doesn't produce any tactile effects. In fact I only noticed it with simhub and raceroom.

 

[yobrevar]

If that were me, I would look to remove Simhub completely and then reinstall without settings having persisted. To remove all reminants take a look in your C:>Users/*your username*/Documents. If there is a Simhub folder there after you have uninstalled Simhub then deletd it. You could also look in the %AppData% folder which is hidden by default. Look in your c: again and inside the Users folder click on view and select show hidden folders. Again, if there is anything named Simhub inside the %AppData% folder, delete it after having uninstalled Simhub.

Now use Ccleaner to clean up registry entries and reboot.

Finally, I wouldn’t be overly hesitant to reinstall Windows on your system. I did it recently to sort out USB issues plaguing my system and it gave me a chance to purge a load of Assetto Corsa mods that I never used. Feels great once it’s all back up and running.

Thanks for the reply. I will check those folders and scan the regestry for any signs of Simhub.

 

[yobrevar]

You may have missed my attempt to help in a previous post (5120). I had a similar desire to rid myself of AC's Content Manager recently and no matter how many times I reinstalled Assetto Corsa and Content Manager my settings persisted which were causing issues. You want to delete the Simhub folder from %AppData% which is a hidden folder within your USERS folder. Good luck!

Hi. Yep i did miss your initial post. As mentioned in the reply to that post I will deleted those folders and scan regisrty for signs of Simhub.
Thanks

 

[yobrevar]

I was wondering if you all are getting the gear shift effect with simhubs default profiles? I'm running it with AC, acc, ams2 and shifting doesn't produce any tactile effects. In fact I only noticed it with simhub and raceroom.

Yup, I found that too.
There appears to be no audio signal corresponding to gear shift in those games.
The lack of Audio signal means there isn't even a signal for an external subwoofer.
All this means Voicemeeter wont work with gear shift in those games, either.

 

[Peterpan6666]

That’s the Behringer amps starting to arrive back in stock in Europe. Thomann retailers in Germany have just shipped an NX3000D to the UK for me.

 

[sierses]

Hi All.
I've been monitoring this thread for months. It persuaded me in my upgrade choice to an NX3000D and an extra Buttkicker Advanced for the seat. I had to buy a SBlaster X3, as the sensitivity on my mboards outputs was way too low for the NX3000D.

I moved my existing BKG2 to the underside of the pedal box. I'm Using a NLR Gt-Track.
I had to make a new 16mm MDF panel for the BKA to attach under the seat.

Initially ( for an hour or so) this worked well.

While tinkering with Mr.Lattes profiles in Simhub, I went to change one of the replay videos (for the same track and car). Suddenly there was a strange whistle\buzzing noise, predominantly noticed from the BKA.
It is now there all the time, if I enable any setting other than Gear Shift.

I've re-routed all the wiring, separating signal and power lines. Uninstalled \ re-installed SimHub. Tried my original mobo soundcard outputs, which now made the sound (as-well as being low volume). Reinstalled drivers for X3. Tried headphone output on X3.

I'm starting to think it is an issue with Simhub. I disabled Simhub and ran VoiceMeeter with my games and noticed the output to the Kickers didn't have the noise anymore. So that rules out my brand new BKA as the problem. The issue with VoiceMeeter is there is no GearShift noticeable in game play. So I'm not sure if there is another issue elsewhere causing specific frequencies to be cut in my games. I've checked all the Windows Sounds \ Sounblaster \ Realtech settings, but nothing is out of the ordinary. There is no crossover freq's set anywhere else other than my brand new Nx3000D.

I've tried running in Stereo \ 7.1 \5.1 and headphones with 'Direct Mode' dis\enabled in SoundBlaster Command.

When I uninstalled Simhub and reinstalled it (in the same directory as prev), all my original settings & profiles were preserved. This was even with a reboot in between. I'm not sure what the best way is to do a full uninstall for Simhub.

It is most noticeable when the volume is turned down at night time. In fact you can hear it even when the transducers are working flat out. All of these components are brand new. The BKA was shipped via Amazon from the US to me in Aus. I don't look forward to waiting another month for a new one to arrive. Chances are it wont even be the problem anyways. I've now invested over $1400 in these transducers and they sound awful.

Included below are my Amps settings for Channel-A, which is the BKA. I set the Amp up using Mr Lattes link to the Sine Wave generator from other posts.

Here is the link to a short video showing the Buzz\whistle from the BKAdvanced. :->

I've spent the last 2 weeks trying to get this sorted and no time actually driving. I feel like I have done every thing barring a fresh install of Win10 on my new R9-3900x \ RTX2080 system. I'm not really enthused with the thought of doing that.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanx Guys :}

I have a similar problem with my BK Advance. I searched for weeks for solutions, but apparently it's an uncommon issue. My hypothesis is that the sound comes from air being pushed through the lube around the magnet assembly. I've tried it with 4 different amplifiers (50W, 80W, 120W, and 300W) and numerous effects with no reduction of the sounds.

I've gone so far as opening it up (breaking and then epoxying the aluminum around one of the bolts) and re-lubing the magnet with lithium grease (25-50% improvement to chuffing), trying to use rubber spacers inside the casing structure to reduce the higher frequency vibrations (didn't work), and mounting it on different surfaces (reduces unwanted high frequency noises, but doesn't solve the chuffing).

Right now I have it under the plywood board my pedals are mounted to get more output in the under 20Hz range. It works well for impacts and other transient effects, but constant effects like rpm, road speed/noise, and slip will create the annoying buzzing and chuffing sounds depending on the frequency and volume.

If you have a warranty, I'd recommend getting it replaced before opening it up and trying to fix it. My attempt at fixing was enough to keep it, but not enough to not be disappointed and get annoyed at it every now and then because of its limitations. Or better yet, send it back and get a full sized BK LFE.

 

[yobrevar]

I have a similar problem with my BK Advance. I searched for weeks for solutions, but apparently it's an uncommon issue. My hypothesis is that the sound comes from air being pushed through the lube around the magnet assembly. I've tried it with 4 different amplifiers (50W, 80W, 120W, and 300W) and numerous effects with no reduction of the sounds.

I've gone so far as opening it up (breaking and then epoxying the aluminum around one of the bolts) and re-lubing the magnet with lithium grease (25-50% improvement to chuffing), trying to use rubber spacers inside the casing structure to reduce the higher frequency vibrations (didn't work), and mounting it on different surfaces (reduces unwanted high frequency noises, but doesn't solve the chuffing).

Right now I have it under the plywood board my pedals are mounted to get more output in the under 20Hz range. It works well for impacts and other transient effects, but constant effects like rpm, road speed/noise, and slip will create the annoying buzzing and chuffing sounds depending on the frequency and volume.

If you have a warranty, I'd recommend getting it replaced before opening it up and trying to fix it. My attempt at fixing was enough to keep it, but not enough to not be disappointed and get annoyed at it every now and then because of its limitations. Or better yet, send it back and get a full sized BK LF

OK, so I seem to have solved my problems with the emphysemic BK-Advance.
I was staring at my original Bk-130Ci Amp from my Gamer2 and was wondering why that Amp works but the new Behringer appears to generate noise.
Then it dawned on me. The wooden base the Advance is mounted too is resonating with the higher signal being generated from the Behringer.
I quickly checked my Low Pass Cutoff frequencies and realized they were way to high. They were set to 180Hz. Which was in fact the roll-off point, not the cutoff point. This meant that signals well into the 400hz range were still being sent to the transducers.
I dropped the Low Pass Cutoffs to no more than 85hz with a 48Db Butterworth Slope for the Advanced and 102Hz 48Db Linkwitz for the Gamer2.

 

[yobrevar]

So new question now -->
Is there a way to store Simhub Individual Channel Maps with each profile.
I've noticed that between PCars2 and Raceroom the outputs to my transducers varies significantly. Especially noticable with wheel slip. In Raceroom I have Front output mapped to 27% (of total output) and rear at 100%.
When i switch the game to Pcars2 and having to use the same channel maps, my pedals almost shake themselves apart, as even 27% is too high.
I don't want to have to change the channel mapping manually every time I change my game. Is there a way to store the channel maps on a as-per-profile basis?

Thanx muchly

 

[anton_Chez]

You can change the gain levels for each effect / channel per profile. So change the PC2 one and save it as the PC2 profile. It will auto load that profile if it's the last one you used for that game, when you launch PC2.

 

[chris82009]

@griffchris

Your on the right tracks....
The "T Amp Quadro 500DSP" is a nice unit and at a good price and will have enough wattage.


I had a look at its software which seem quite good and clean, also supports plenty of different EQ filters

Just a shame it won't support 2ohm but I wouldn't say the LFE Vs CT is a drastic issue even if they may have some operational differences.
The exciters help bridge the gap for the 60Hz and up. Id say you can be certain the NX3000D will perform well and reliably even if two may be needed but I dont know of anyone using that amp to power dual large BK. So its a decision you have to weigh up.

Do however keep an eye on the forums, I've been enjoying the journey with helping a fellow member here for the past couple of weeks who has been installing 8x exciters and going with 1x BK CT on a seat with also 1x BKG on pedals. He has been great in giving feedback on effects and I've asked him to do a thread on here when suits to give his own opinions on it all.

Hello,
I am new and just getting into this. I have recently been able to get 4 x BK advanced (3 ohm model not 4ohm) used out of an old theatre. I have been looking into the amp needed to do this properly. I figure I need 2 x Behringer NX1000D, however I came across the the t.amp quadro 500 dsp and this seems able to do everything 2 x NX1000d's can do at around $61 cheaper (and in stock). However, the t.amp quadro 500dsp is not 2ohm stable, and this is the 3ohm BKA, not the 4 ohm ones. My question is would this be an issue and should this be the reason to eliminate the quadro from the list and get 2 nx1000d's?

 

[Callsign BH]

For the guys and gals running isolator setups on the P1-X pedal deck/tray, I would greatly appreciate if you would post pics of how you installed/mounted them.

Trying to brainstorm ideas on how to properly install this, and figured I could leverage some of the great ideas you’ve already come up with. Thanks!

 

[chris82009]

For the guys and gals running isolator setups on the P1-X pedal deck/tray, I would greatly appreciate if you would post pics of how you installed/mounted them.

Trying to brainstorm ideas on how to properly install this, and figured I could leverage some of the great ideas you’ve already come up with. Thanks!

I have the pedal sliding plate on top of my pedal deck, that thing is way to hardcore to even bother trying to do left or right under it. So my idea is to isolate the clubsport pedals where it ataches to the sliding plate, and then mount the buttkickers onto the sides of the clubsport pedal frame itself so it will basically be right next to my feet and should be easy to get great feedback from it. Hope this helps, Im also going to isolate under my chair from the frame, then my only issue will be how and where to attach the buttkickers to the seat. Are people just drilling holes and running bolts threw the fiberglass seat to attach it? I can't quite figure that one out yet.

 

[EsxPaul]

Are people just drilling holes and running bolts threw the fiberglass seat to attach it?

Yes, many of us have done that. It's pretty much the best way to get the output straight into your rear end.

It really boils down to how much putting holes in your nice seat will bother you going forward.