Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Deleted member 1449502]

@dMASS was having a look at your effect, with current settings, "Deceleration" very easily becomes quite active.

Two examples, going down a straight at high speed and just letting off the acceleration very quickly triggers it, also weaving L/R on the road causing (reduced speed) triggers it. So any scenario with a small amount of reduced speed (@5-10kph will trigger it).

Certainly fixable with some changes but seems still a bit too sensitive for some forms of cars perhaps? Hope it's some help to dial it in better to your liking though.

The effect I shared is a very different approach (much more active) but let me know what you think of it on your own configuration. Although I think it too needs a bit more threshold for the first layer.

Yes I've been progressively adjusting gamma, but it certainly is still far too sensitive. I havn't isolated that effect on its own for a while so it wasn't so obvious to me with my volume settings and combiining other effects.

So would we use the gforce custom effects as a straight replacement for the traditional accel/decel effects we have? or do we try and make them work together?

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

I am guessing with those springs/rubbers to lose the isolation when braking because you are increasing the contact between the top and the bottom. I think larger diameter springs that wont make contact with the bolt going through as well as grommets going through the plates.

On mine I have m8 bolts going through the springs but the holes that the bolts go through as something like 16mm, enough to keep isolation between metal and metal.

Could you please post some pics of the parts? I'm keen to try something better

 

[metalnwood]

I am using these https://industrialtooling.co.nz/col.../die-spring-red-25-x-38mm-9-25038-3-9-1606-26

and these

https://nz.element14.com/penn-elcom/9106/rubber-foot-2-1-2-diameter-x-1/dp/2808579?CMP=i-55c5-00001621

As far as grommets etc, they will be about but I made my own from 5mm rubber to go in to my 5mm steel that the bolts go through. I just pressed them out using punches on a press but you haveo to have the right punches etc.. Otherwise some rubber strip, drilled and cut an outer circle.

 

[Mr Latte]

Once @blekenblue offers an updated version of his Load effect I will be testing and monitoring it in the following ways.

Mono as a combined chassis vibrational feedback
Left/Right, feeling how it helps to extend stereo sensations perhaps
Corners, having independent felt wheel responses

Corners you can deffo feel the tyre under load, but Im not convinced we need to feel the exact tyres that have or do not have a load, but more how good we can make the effect's operation feel without the positional placement.

I have been tempted, to keep looking to buy a 2nd G9 monitor, maybe before or around Black Friday perhaps. To then stack above, this will enable the bottom display for gaming whilst letting me see, all the monitoring. Possibly also comparing with telemetry data, which is something I want to get a bit more of a grasp on for some effects. I think to really dig into creating the best effects and simply learning by experimenting using this level of additional visualization it will bode well to work on the library of effects I want to grow.

Not that I originally planned nor ever expected I would. I ended up with close to 5k Aussie $ (and counting) on all the hardware/software I use for the monitoring, but of course, it let me do things with my own rigs intended Simhub/tactile installation that is not normally possible as well.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Appreciate it thx metalnwood

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

What would be a good start point for a good monitoring setup? I'll keep a look out for things on the used market sooner rather than later as it may take some time to get what I need at a value price

 

[Mr Latte]

What would be a good start point for a good monitoring setup? I'll keep a look out for things on the used market sooner rather than later as it may take some time to get what I need at a value price

You can start cheap with a 2 channel audio interface, and then get a few plugins but this all comes with quite an extensive learning curve if youve never used something like a DAW before. Im still getting to grips with some things and learning new stuff all the time.

Its not everybody's cuppa though.
Search the forums also for AUM if you can get access to an iPad its another option, easier to get into.


This was one solution I used to use.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

You can start cheap with a 2 channel audio interface, and then get a few plugins but this all comes with quite an extensive learning curve if youve never used something like a DAW before. Im still getting to grips with some things and learning new stuff all the time.

Its not everybody's cuppa though.
Search the forums also for AUM if you can get access to an iPad its another option, easier to get into.

Cheers for that. I think I have an Ipad lying around somewhere, I'll start with AUM and see how deep the rabbit hole goes

 

[metalnwood]

There are quite cheap accelerometers on the market as well. It would be interesting to have one mounted and look at it's output to see how clean the vibrations are getting to the rig, getting mixed and would be very cool for tuning things like spring isolators as you could make changes to things like tension on the fly while seeing if that is improving or making things worse.

I think there are various software based scopes that will show you the output realtime in a useful format.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

There are quite cheap accelerometers on the market as well. It would be interesting to have one mounted and look at it's output to see how clean the vibrations are getting to the rig, getting mixed and would be very cool for tuning things like spring isolators as you could make changes to things like tension on the fly while seeing if that is improving or making things worse.

I think there are various software based scopes that will show you the output realtime in a useful format.

That is an awesome idea! It helps my OCD to dial it in through output readings

 

[metalnwood]

That is an awesome idea! It helps my OCD to dial it in through output readings

I wonder what Freq is coming through from simhub when I click on test channel?
This was android phone laid on my pedals, turned up volume, freq measured basically the same but amplitude was higher.. This wsa on some demo I downloaded. $10 for full version and I am sure there are tons of them. Interesting to measure from the platform.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

I wonder what Freq is coming through from simhub when I click on test channel?
This was android phone laid on my pedals, turned up volume, freq measured basically the same but amplitude was higher.. This wsa on some demo I downloaded. $10 for full version and I am sure there are tons of them. Interesting to measure from the platform.

Interesting, I'll look into it and experiment with different preload strengths.

I have to say I love this kind of stuff. It reminds of when I first got into watercooled custom loops and overclocking

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

I am using these https://industrialtooling.co.nz/col.../die-spring-red-25-x-38mm-9-25038-3-9-1606-26

and these

https://nz.element14.com/penn-elcom/9106/rubber-foot-2-1-2-diameter-x-1/dp/2808579?CMP=i-55c5-00001621

As far as grommets etc, they will be about but I made my own from 5mm rubber to go in to my 5mm steel that the bolts go through. I just pressed them out using punches on a press but you haveo to have the right punches etc.. Otherwise some rubber strip, drilled and cut an outer circle.

Do you think these will do a good job? the ID is 19mm if I'm reading correctly. I only use a 5mm bolt from the sprints anyway. The current spring I use is 14/7mm, so I could use these new pucks and get a larger spring

4PCS 38x19mm Round Bolt On Rubber Feet with Metal Washer | eBay

4PCS 38x19mm. Type: Round Bolt on Rubber.

www.ebay.com.au

 

[metalnwood]

Do you think these will do a good job? the ID is 19mm if I'm reading correctly. I only use a 5mm bolt from the sprints anyway. The current spring I use is 14/7mm, so I could use these new pucks and get a larger spring

4PCS 38x19mm Round Bolt On Rubber Feet with Metal Washer | eBay

4PCS 38x19mm. Type: Round Bolt on Rubber.

www.ebay.com.au

Honestly, I dont know, that will let you put in a 3/4" spring . I think its really trial and error. It may work fine, it may be the best, it may not. There are a number of factors in play, your transducers, the amount of pedal force you use etc, I think generally when you press on the pedals you are rocking the platform so two are compressing, two are expanding . Perhaps not a huge sideways load on them where a larger diameter spring would help.

Basically, trial and error!

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Effect attached.
Simply download it, right click to rename it, delete ".txt"
Then place it in the Simhub folder and import from Simhub.

Note:
To get best from this effect. will require boosting the low bass (sub 20Hz) via DSP

This uses, I believe an (older version?) of a custom-made effect by @blekenbleu.

I adapted this to operate instead in mono spatialization in an attempt to present a sensation that represents the whole car's chassis than individual wheels. Just was something I was messing about with a while back...

Should be nice on your BK/Q10B

Oh I almost forgot.
Map/Route "X-LOW BASS" layers to those big units and place "MID BASS" to TST or Q1B

See what you think....

Whaaaaaaaaat!!!! mate i can't take the smile off of my face! The level of improvement I felt was like i just dropped another 5k on my rig for some new alien tech, This is truly special mate, I am in awe, amazing! Thank you so much for sharing

I simply mapped A/B/C to the BKC & Q10B and D/E to the TST/MQB1/BKG2 then played with volumes a little but didn't need to adjust much.

Now it's obvious that I don't need to be using the traditional acc/dec gforce effects in conjunction with this. This has also really cleared the seperation when all the effects are going to a phenomenal level. I was using acc/dec g-force along with the slip&load i posted before which was now obviously making it far too busy

How much further can we take this? This is some emotional **** my man!

 

[blekenbleu]

something similar blekenbleu posted

Briefly looking at LOAD&SLIP effect.siprofile.txt raised 2 concerns:

• effects are configured as front/rear, but formulae are 4-corner
  • I never tested whether SimHub actually sums left+ right formulae for front/rear...??
• effects depend on seemingly missing ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxy_G property
  • This property was exported from another Shakeit effect, calculated from changes in speed and yaw
  • Newer SimHub versions now include equivalent properties: GameData.AccelerationSurge,Sway
• Because of differences among cars, even within AC, much less across games, newer versions added effects for tuning slips and accelerations, using response filters, for e.g. maximum useful slip before breakaway at about 90%.
  • I dial this in, per car and tire selection, using AC skidpad and figure 8 track
  • corner load effect similarly wants tuning e.g. differently for high downforce cars

 

[blekenbleu]

which should we go for

Please consider using the search icon (upper right corner of this page),
since these have already been thoroughly discussed.
FWIW, few are IMO typically worth considering:

• TT25-8 particularly for inserting in seat upholstery near skin or otherwise where its 3 mounting ears are useful
• DAEX32EP-4 or nearly equivalent DAEX30HESF-4
  • lower power is IMO too liable to burnout
  • perhaps glued to a small flat aluminum plate which can then be screwed e.g. to pedal back, these are IMO typically more efficient than TT25-8.
• HDN-8 - no personal experience, but has a potentially useful single-point coarse thread mount

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Here are wip wheel slip settings. I've described shaker type/position in each effects description. I'd appreciate any feedback you guys can give, still learning and trying to improve

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Briefly looking at LOAD&SLIP effect.siprofile.txt raised 2 concerns:

• effects are configured as front/rear, but formulae are 4-corner
  • I never tested whether SimHub actually sums left+ right formulae for front/rear...??
• effects depend on seemingly missing ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxy_G property
  • This property was exported from another Shakeit effect, calculated from changes in speed and yaw
  • Newer SimHub versions now include equivalent properties: GameData.AccelerationSurge,Sway
• Because of differences among cars, even within AC, much less across games, newer versions added effects for tuning slips and accelerations, using response filters, for e.g. maximum useful slip before breakaway at about 90%.
  • I dial this in, per car and tire selection, using AC skidpad and figure 8 track
  • corner load effect similarly wants tuning e.g. differently for high downforce cars

Thanks for the insight, I was very clearly using this incorrectly

 

[Mr Latte]

Briefly looking at LOAD&SLIP effect.siprofile.txt raised 2 concerns:

• effects are configured as front/rear, but formulae are 4-corner
  • I never tested whether SimHub actually sums left+ right formulae for front/rear...??
• effects depend on seemingly missing ShakeITBSV3Plugin.Export.proxy_G property
  • This property was exported from another Shakeit effect, calculated from changes in speed and yaw
  • Newer SimHub versions now include equivalent properties: GameData.AccelerationSurge,Sway
• Because of differences among cars, even within AC, much less across games, newer versions added effects for tuning slips and accelerations, using response filters, for e.g. maximum useful slip before breakaway at about 90%.
  • I dial this in, per car and tire selection, using AC skidpad and figure 8 track
  • corner load effect similarly wants tuning e.g. differently for high downforce cars

I can look more deeply into the individual outputs.

From memory, in the past, if I took one of your effects for 4x wheels, then yes we get a response displaced positionally for each wheel. If we then apply spatialization differently, then it makes sense that it combines the telemetry input data to form a response based on the channels the spatialization applies.

It may reduce the amplitude based on 2 or 4 channels being combined to form some kind of average?

Looking at the icon used in the software for spatialization:
A possible example, of some scenarios?

A) Corners = 4 Individual input streams representing 1 wheel each for 4 individual outputs.
B) Mono = 1 single output (taking we assume some combined average from all 4 input streams )
C) Front/Rear = combined mono for both front and both rear wheels
D) Left/Right = combined stereo for front and rear left and then right sides

E) Applying corners but routing/mapping all 4 wheels into one single output channel


With B Vs E it produces more amplitude with E yet both are going to a single channel.
I will have to compare their outputs regards frequencies etc

C) Corners = 4 BUT within mapping/routing we send all 4 to one output