Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[anton_Chez]

That cable looks fine.

 

[mgh24]

I am trying to learn more about tactile. Did as Mr Latte suggested and went back to about May 2019, page 60-something of this thread. I am now on page 99.
A lot of reading, with so far mostly hints at what works for folks, no examples yet, or even descriptions of what frequency ranges folks are using for different effects.

I have a very basic setup, so obviously limited. Still unsure how far I want to go with transducers, or move to a G-belt before investing more in transducer induced tactile.

You can see my setup in this thread:

More transducers, or belt tensioning for next upgrade?

I have a basic, simple, bass shaker setup, which gives me some extra feedback. There is plenty I could do to improve that system, but it would take a considerable investment. Just to add one large BK unit, a TST exciter, and amp, could be pushing $1k, and if adding additional BK units, well...

www.racedepartment.com

Transducer I am using:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/pui-audio/asx11504-sw-r/?qs=lc2O%252bfHJPVbFCuo4z4Tq2Q%3D%3D&countrycode=US&currencycode=USD

amp:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/pui-audio/asx11504-sw-r/?qs=lc2O%252bfHJPVbFCuo4z4Tq2Q%3D%3D&countrycode=US&currencycode=USD

I read the term “layering” of effects. I think I have an idea of what this means, but could someone explain it a bit?

At present I am focusing on road impacts. I have been continuing to turn effects down, both in volume and in threshold. At default settings there is a lot of feedback, but seems to me too busy, hard to distinguish a single event. Again, limited by what my setup is capable of regardless of tuning.
That said, I would like to better understand how folks approach tuning before I get too far into my setup.

It makes sense to me that sending different effects to different transducers, or sets of transducers, would be advantageous, but at present I am limited to the two.

My approach has been to add multiple Road Impact effects, using different frequencies and thresholds for each, as shown below.
If one effect is using a frequency range of 30-40 Hz, and another using 15-25, outputted to the same transducer, will they still interfere with each other? I do not have any cross-over filters applied - I understand it is possible with some software through Windows.

These are the three different effects I am using for Road Impacts. You can see what I am attempting - lower threshold, higher frequency range for smaller impacts, higher threshold, lower frequency for larger impacts.

I understand completely that I am severely limited, but am I even on the right track here?

I’ll continue reading

Thanks

Edit: so far all this tuning has been in AC

 

[RCHeliguy]

@lovemesomespeed You ordered the right cable.
I'm driving 4 channels using TWO of the cables you listed into an NX4-6000.

Currently I'm running off my motherboard's 7.1 card, so I've got 4 more channels and I'll need 2 x more of those stereo cables to drive exciters individually.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I read the term “layering” of effects. I think I have an idea of what this means, but could someone explain it a bit?

We might want to create some common terminology, because there are a lot of techniques being mentioned.

I probably misrepresented my wheel slide effect as layered. I think 2 stage with 2 transducers is more accurate. The effect starts with one transducer and then at a certain point a second more powerful lower reaching transducer joins in.

Mr. Latte has a layered engine rpm that is a combination of 5 separate effects that work across 2-3 types of transducers in multiple ways across the rpm range of the engine.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Interesting and I am intrigued....
Can you share the g-force based effects you tried?

I will say my own comparisons between the BK / Q10B have been limited but I felt more low-end from the BK. That was even with the Q10B on the Additional Torque Bracket. I think this does deserver more in-depth tests but I also think it's hard to compare with one unit being 4ohm and the other 8ohm also, maybe each needs its own "sweetspot" in output volumes. With the BK a small amount of extra wattage can make a big difference, maybe that applies also to the less power-hungry Q10B?

From memory, I do believe AVS or AVF in the UK that offer Home Cinema forums, the general consensus was that the BK could hit harder/lower with its extra weighted piston but that the Q10B was better over more of a usable range. One perspective I think or would say is that the Q10B felt more musical with its larger 2" excursion. So I can see certain effects usage it may be close or better than the BK.

Generally though, well certainly in UK the Q10B is a bit more expensive and trying to find those on the secondary market in UK/EU are like hens teeth. Yet finding the BK LFE/CT 2nd hand is easier.


More compact than the BK but need to be installed vertically. The Q1 is so tiny and cute.

I am fortunate though that I recently acquired a 2nd Q10B thanks to a kind member on these forums from Germany, who I am now helping towards a Stage 1 setup. To be honest I am not sure if I will use these but had wanted to trial a BK CT / TST Gold / Q10B combo specifically for high-powered speed &rpm sensations.

Here are some shots of the setup. Sorry about my budget phone camera lol

https://imgur.com/a/5DdbQJc

I used these bullbar clamps (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-20-2...T-PIPE-TUBE-CLAMP-LED-LIGHT-BAR-/282314446292) to mount the Q10B to the rear stability support arm. Now out of necessity I had to use zip ties to hold it up from the back support arm as the clamps would slowly slip from the strength of the Q10B, and I had to keep the Q10B vertical.
So by accident this then created incredible sensations through the whole seat as it would transfer a huge amount of force. It's most intense through accel/decel gforces as it literally feels like I'm getting pulled into my chair. So i do think there are some advantages to be had here, but perhaps it's possible to do something similar for 80/20 rigs

I bolted a 20mm socket head into the centre of back support arm to position the BKG2 where i wanted. Coupled with the BKG2 for more detail the mesh really allows some awesome detail to get through

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Here are the acceleration g-force effects I run on the Q10B

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Here are the deceleration g-force effects I run. I run effects A and B with the BKC and effect C with Q10B

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

To further comment on my findings with the BKC v Q10B. I would say <15hz you feel alot more detail with the Q10B, whereas the BKC the effects come through fatter in comparison, kind of like walking in heavy boots filled with water.

Now as I mentioned in my previous post they most definitely can be used together to enhance effects and I think just choosing one over the other would provide an inferior experience

 

[RCHeliguy]

The DAEX32EP-4's look like they have some power in the 100-200Hz range.
Is that the frequency range that you are using them for?

 

[Mr Latte]

To further comment on my findings with the BKC v Q10B. I would say <15hz you feel alot more detail with the Q10B, whereas the BKC the effects come through fatter in comparison, kind of like walking in heavy boots filled with water.

Now as I mentioned in my previous post they most definitely can be used together to enhance effects and I think just choosing one over the other would provide an inferior experience

Thanks will get a look and try at the settings.

Excellent creativity with the rig you have, I was smirking because you amusingly have effectively a deck chair with better quality and more tactile than many people on these forums with extensive rigs, brill.

Not sure if, your own shared comparisons of the two units, are based on "currently how each is installed". You have more chance of feeling the Q10B better within the back and buttocks looking at your installation.

Placement can make a difference, too. For example when I tested dual BK CT centrally mounted beneath my seat connecting to the seat's steel frame at each end. One unit was positioned more to the front and the other more to the rear. The unit in the rear felt nicer/different as I can only assume more dB from its output was directly going into the back of the seat compared to the front unit, hence one was filling also the back of the seat better.

Both are certainly capable units and yes indeed with differences in their output.
Will certainly want to do a deeper analysis in the future, thats for sure.

 

[Mr Latte]

Effect attached.
Simply download it, right click to rename it, delete ".txt"
Then place it in the Simhub folder and import from Simhub.

Note:
To get best from this effect. will require boosting the low bass (sub 20Hz) via DSP

This uses, I believe an (older version?) of a custom-made effect by @blekenbleu.

I adapted this to operate instead in mono spatialization in an attempt to present a sensation that represents the whole car's chassis than individual wheels. Just was something I was messing about with a while back...

Should be nice on your BK/Q10B

Oh I almost forgot.
Map/Route "X-LOW BASS" layers to those big units and place "MID BASS" to TST or Q1B

See what you think....

 

[worms14]

Thanks guys for sharing your settings.

dMASA, would it be a big problem to make a movie of the race?
I have the impression that you can actually have the best sensation of movement, seen in the video, I suspect that these springs must work terribly with such large BS. DD on the other hand, isn't the whole set too flaccid?

 

[mgh24]

...Excellent creativity with the rig you have, I was smirking because you amusingly have effectively a deck chair with better quality and more tactile than many people on these forums with extensive rigs, brill. ...

Agree! @dMASS, that is so cool. Spend your money wisely, and creatively, and end up with excellent results. I admire folks with that kind of imagination and creativity! Nice work.

 

[Mr Latte]

@dMASS was having a look at your effect, with current settings, "Deceleration" very easily becomes quite active.

Two examples, going down a straight at high speed and just letting off the acceleration very quickly triggers it, also weaving L/R on the road causing (reduced speed) triggers it. So any scenario with a small amount of reduced speed (@5-10kph will trigger it).

Certainly fixable with some changes but seems still a bit too sensitive for some forms of cars perhaps? Hope it's some help to dial it in better to your liking though.

The effect I shared is a very different approach (much more active) but let me know what you think of it on your own configuration. Although I think it too needs a bit more threshold for the first layer.

 

[mgh24]

and not to forget...There is tactile and tactile....

Many users just go for the cheap tactile experience and of course they are disappointed....IMHO, you really have to invest in very good hardware (including the amp)

Well I went budget, and I'm not disappointed . Thrilled with a bit of extra feedback.

But my oh my, reading Peter W's post #4076, and @Mr Latte's response, sounds incredible! Feeling a kerb that is more than a simple hit (all I can achieve with budget), that sounds amazing.

@TonyMM - tongue-in-cheek - I completely get what you are saying, and agree, that I don't know what I'm missing. I just made a very small change, that gave a very big boost in performance, on a very basic setup. If I can feel that with one simple change, it is hard to imagine what is possible with these sophisticated setups.

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Thanks will get a look and try at the settings.

Excellent creativity with the rig you have, I was smirking because you amusingly have effectively a deck chair with better quality and more tactile than many people on these forums with extensive rigs, brill.

Not sure if, your own shared comparisons of the two units, are based on "currently how each is installed". You have more chance of feeling the Q10B better within the back and buttocks looking at your installation.

Placement can make a difference, too. For example when I tested dual BK CT centrally mounted beneath my seat connecting to the seat's steel frame at each end. One unit was positioned more to the front and the other more to the rear. The unit in the rear felt nicer/different as I can only assume more dB from its output was directly going into the back of the seat compared to the front unit, hence one was filling also the back of the seat better.

Both are certainly capable units and yes indeed with differences in their output.
Will certainly want to do a deeper analysis in the future, thats for sure.

Yes I wasn't sure whether I'd get roasted for it on the forums, but maybe some are biting their tongues lol. We currently live in Melbourne's city so I don't have the space to dedicate to a larger rig.

Totally agree re placement, so my comparison findings are purely on how I have them configured. So perhaps a bit hasty of me to sound so conclusive as to their differences. Nonetheless in this current config I get a clear advantage for layering by achieving greater effect seperation and being able to utilise the unique characteristics of each shaker.

I am very interested in some of the equipment you've been using. Identifying effect overlap and seeing a visual represenation of what is going on to aid in developing the effects further. Sometimes I don't trust my own sense of what's happening, and I do waste alot of time going back and forth on various changes

 

[miwashi]

Amazon has restocked a number of dayton exciters. Among these which should we go for?

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Effect attached.
Simply download it, right click to rename it, delete ".txt"
Then place it in the Simhub folder and import from Simhub.

Note:
To get best from this effect. will require boosting the low bass (sub 20Hz) via DSP

This uses, I believe an (older version?) of a custom-made effect by @blekenbleu.

I adapted this to operate instead in mono spatialization in an attempt to present a sensation that represents the whole car's chassis than individual wheels. Just was something I was messing about with a while back...

Should be nice on your BK/Q10B

Oh I almost forgot.
Map/Route "X-LOW BASS" layers to those big units and place "MID BASS" to TST or Q1B

See what you think....

Thanks for posting this, I'm pretty busy with work today but I'm looking forward to giving it a crack tonight.

I was experimenting with something similar blekenbleu posted, but I was still trying to get my head around it. It felt great on its own, but I was struggling to get it to feel good with other effects. Maybe I was going about it all wrong, or maybe I had an earlier version.

Here it is anyway for reference

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Thanks guys for sharing your settings.

dMASA, would it be a big problem to make a movie of the race?
I have the impression that you can actually have the best sensation of movement, seen in the video, I suspect that these springs must work terribly with such large BS. DD on the other hand, isn't the whole set too flaccid?

I have one modification I'm planning on completing this weekend and I'll try and get my wife to agree to film me without getting any lip service lol

Honestly I will in the future look to getting better springs and larger rubber pucks to house them. This is what i sourced as a first attempt, and I am happy with the results, although I think that it can be much better. There is some movement, but I've preloaded the spring enough that I don't notice it whilst racing.

The 2 vertical support arms I added to assist the wheel base flex helped alot, I have minimal flex now but hope to try and eliminate it with an idea i came across recently on reddit. I'm just waiting on the last of the parts to arrive this week, and I'll be able to get it set up on the weekend

 

[metalnwood]

I am guessing with those springs/rubbers to lose the isolation when braking because you are increasing the contact between the top and the bottom. I think larger diameter springs that wont make contact with the bolt going through as well as grommets going through the plates.

On mine I have m8 bolts going through the springs but the holes that the bolts go through as something like 16mm, enough to keep isolation between metal and metal.