Anton makes some good points and I am behind him as far as tactile hardware although I am betting I am ahead of the majority of people by quite a bit.
I have heard many people using and adapting your simhub RPM profile
@Mr Latte and I have never heard anything bad about it. I cant remember anyone at the time having hardware like the racebase but they adapted it and the magic was not just the hardware but how the profiles were put together. What you did is beyond what 95% of people will acheive by themselves. I did the same I made it work for my mini lfe's and I was amazed because I had never felt the different effects at different, especially low and idle rpm.
Lots of people are getting in to motion, it's their big spend and having spent the money there doesnt make another $3kusd available for tactile. One often rules out the other for most of us, sometimes forever, sometimes for a couple years. So comparing them doesnt take in to account we are not made of money
I know the profiles you have made are made for the hardware you are talking about but I will give you another thing to think about. Forgetting the occasional arguments, etc, you want tactile to get more popular. Lots of us see the benefits. A number of us have modest hardware and lust after more, like myself bank balance willing. I think you can help your cause more by sharing your profiles because I believe that will get many more people on the path to wanting to upgrade their hardware. Just take your rpm profile. It's a big improvement and I can see where the big ones will benefit me. Before that rpm profile I couldnt. I could imagine more power but I couldnt imagine it what it might do for the lumpy idle I never hda before, etc.
I think you are concerned that people may try your profiles with lesser hardware and not have the impression you want. I think they they will discover the potential as well as getting better from what they do have. Thats bound to drive people to expand in to better hardware.
This is an old area of sim racing now, tactile has been around for ages but you are doing more with it and it's exciting for anyone that is reading but you are putting it in a walled garden, not giving us a fish, not really teaching us how to fish but telling us we need to go and learn how to fish and one day, after 3000 hours we may be on par.
To be clear, I don't mind that, its your time, effort and reward for that. At the same time its not in line with what you say you are trying to achieve. There is the linux and the windows of the world, I think you have to choose if you are linux or windows, are you a good product thats commercial with the secrets under the cover or are you linux trying to get mass appeal and get your tech to everyone.
At the moment you are advertising a bit of both but mostly windows - and it doesnt bother me one bit but its certainly where some of the confusion comes from here.
Firstly, thanks for your input and it is noted.
Here is the problem by what you are saying...
Some guys want to buy the hardware they want, to install it how they want and just use on this, as good effects they can find from anyone. Regardless if those effects will be properly operating or let the user feel only part of what its true sensations are.
If my or someone else's effects feel a bit better than they currently have, it helps improve the level of immersion you get on whatever spec or type of configuration you own. You perhaps don't care what your missing out on. You dont want to offer feedback or to help develop the effect further to contribute in that way, as well your quite happy you found just a bit of an improvement for what feels good enough for you to use on whatever cars or sims you like.
So with that, what we have is still a jumbled mess, all kinds of installations, using all kinds of tactile hardware. So, no clear path to take things and a large variation between those that do buy into the recommended hardware and follow good ways to install it compared to someone who just doesn't care how where it is placed and they only want to buy the cheapest units or amps.
The Aston Martin RPM Test
Lets clarify something as well. The effect that was shared, is only an example of one of the things I was working on. It used an arrangement of layers with harmonics to improve the rpm sensations. It is being referenced by some of you in how you enjoyed it even with not having the highher end hardware.
Firstly, it was for me, my last attempt on these forums to try to offer an approach with effects creation to get people interested, to respond, offer feedback (good or bad). To show that more potential with engines is possible than what people normally use.
So I specifically, personally tested it on various units to help make it compatible with most people's tactile to help people come forward with feedback. Now can you guys show me, what discussion, questions, or usable feedback from people here that generated?
The response was rather limited, to say the least, but that showed me, these forums in how most people here use tactile or what level of tactile they make do with. It's not going to help me advance effects with the approach I was wanting to go with. Nor helping regards, what my own testing/research was showing in how we can take things much further than what most people experience at present with tactile.
So the RPM harmonic test is not the same thing as this recently discussed concept.
If effects require, more advanced layers which are specifically for different units on a seat or pedals. Then for that effect to be reproduced properly requires all those units using the intended hardware, installed in a recommended way.
Channel Based Tactile Approach
The difference is that many of you are still thinking of the effects that you send to the units you want them on. How that effect is output/felt may vary on the unit that is used and its installation. You will send the same effect to maybe different units as you treat effects like how Simvibe did in that they are channel-based. So the same effect is sent to whatever units you want it to output on with maybe some variation in volumes.
Frequency Based Tactile Approach
This new approach and concept I have been sharing, does not always do that with the effects that may be created. It does not need to rely just on an effect being generated by a single unit or the same effect sent to multiple units. All of those units are limited by the operational performance of what each, single unit offers to reproduce the effect.
In this new approach, the effect itself is not fully generated by any single unit. The effect could have specific low/mid/high bass layers that are then needing to be routed to the correct hardware. The hardware, that is best for representing/produce those individual "frequency-based layers" is then used. For example a BK a TST, and Exciters. In some cases, layers need to go only to the exciters, or only to the BK. In some effect scenarios, they go to more than one type of unit and in some cases even to all units.
So simply the effect has different components within its layers specifically to be generated on key hardware based on the recommended installation. All the user has to do is route that layer to the required output.
When I say, trying to take effects made with this approach, to use on standard budget hardware could be a bit of a disaster. This is because it is not just like the Aston RPM example some of you have referenced. Someone trying to use these newest effects on common budget hardware or typical installations would totally be disregarding how/where and what hardware should be used. Nor get to appreciate the work that went into creating this new level of more advanced effects and what sensations it should deliver to the user.
Unfix A Fixed Platform?
SFX you had to buy into the hardware to get the level of performance.
SFX you had to install it in a certain manner to ensure it worked as intended.
What if with SFX I could instead buy much cheaper lesser quality actuators, install them how/where I wanted, and then still expect to use the profiles the SFX community used? Do you see the connection being made here? It would cause a lot of issues as people with all sorts of installations and mixed hardware would have problems based on no fixed hardware solution that was developed/tried and tested being adherd to.
Dictator Or Pioneer / Ruler Or Helper?
We need some sort of level of fixed hardware platform to work from to advance how or what tactile can offer. I am not interested or motivated in building effects that are limited or restricted to a 50Hz usable range, if others are happy with that then fine enjoy what you have.
While it's all over the place these forums have a lot of good recommendations for tactile and I refer to not just my own input. If newcomers to certain products want to avoid recommendations, then yeah I can say they are a fool based on my own learning/experiences. They very likely and often do not yet have much experience themselves or have tried multiple solutions, with that hardware, so how can they be sure how good the option they did try really is that good?
As I know how much time effort it took me to learn certain things. I did not have someone coming to give me advice. So if others decide to ignore recommendations, from others that went before them, that spent many hours learning what solutions worked best regards installations then why even bother trying to advise people.
What's the point of spending hours here when folk don't want the advice or will use it?
To then be called a dictator, because all you are trying to do is put them on the right path, save them time, effort and get the most from their purchase. It's a bit strong to stick two fingers up, tell that person to shut their face and they will do just as they please.
Maybe it triggers a sense of neglect, worth fullness or abandonment in me when others ignore the advice given in good faith that it is actually proven/tested not just an idea or "opinion" I want people to try.
Tried & Tried & Tried
As a community, people here will not help to develop and experiment with effects because they do not use or own the correct hardware. They have no paid investment into that hardware so will not reap the benefits of it properly, nor are they encouraged to help improve the effects. As many of you already highlight it's better than what you had before, so that's good enough for you, regardless if you feel it as fully intended you already get a free benefit in using the effects.
Yet someone that wants to or
has invested in using quality hardware, that
can experience what the effects offer, they are
much more encouraged to help with testing or improving effects. This is why I find much more usable feedback from private 1-1 clients, that asked me on what/how to buy for their own rigs. Who just placed faith in my recommendations, some of them spending several thousand. So yes several people that sought my help are working towards having Stage 1 to use it as a basis for enjoying their tactile. Some have said they will help in developing effects with this new concept or approach I am presenting.
I have not charged a penny for my effects, I even ignore people in DM offering to give me money for them. Any of my own clients who want to pay for a private 1-1 consultation, yes are given effects that they can enjoy on what hardware they have. Yet I do not advertise that as a service simply because I can only work with a few people at a time.
Is Their A Better Way Forward?
My goal, is to have effect profiles that are much better, but we also try to make them more authentic to the car/sim they are developed for. A place for users that buy into the concept, to chat, to share effects, to build better effects, and for something like that to happen, to offer some form of a package with support requires partnering with a professional company and letting them do what they are good at, while I focus on what I am good at.
There are no intentions of trying to go behind the developer of Simhubs wishes. In my view we have to maintain respect, if any packages were sold from a collaborating company with the intention of using his software then something would be agreed or he would get a good donation for that, just as he asks. This has happened in the past with other tactile hardware being sold (different seatpads) that then works with his own software. You cannot stop people from sharing effects, there is no encryption or paywall for effects, nor am I trying to create one.
Now tell me gentlemen?
Is it possible to open people's eyes to encourage people to buy into a new tactile hardware concept? That with customers of that concept, you create a community that specialises on tactile. Within that community offer guides, videos, info on how to install/configure different effects or help to build your own effects. To encourage other talented people to contribute. To have a vision in building a library of high-quality profiles developed for specific sims, cars that just works as intended for that hardware concept.
Every tactile solution on the market, that is sold today, show me one of those companies that have built specialised effects for different sims to suit their own sold hardware and customers? Do you see, my vision for this is to break the mold and move things forward.
Yes high-quality hardware costs more than budget hardware, if it's not for you fine but looking at the money people already spend on other sim or PC hardware then clearly there is a market for people who do want and will pay for much improved tactile immersion.
