Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[RCHeliguy]

Let me for the record confirm that the BK CT and TST329 are a great pairing.

Also with the high pass filters installed, I'm not hearing my TST329's with my Index off ear headphones on.

The TST329 operates in a range that generates a lot of sensations at higher frequencies that you can feel just fine and it compliments the BK CT very well by picking up where the CT leaves off.

For engine rpm the two feel like they combine beautifully and I'm pairing them up for multi-stage effects at different frequencies.

Based on my success with this pairing, I'm considering trying the exciters out next.

Looks like this will be a next month sort of thing.....

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm​

Back-Ordered
Estimated back in stock 9/17/2021

I was curious if I could just use 4 of them on a single channel with two lines in series and then both of those lines in parallel. That should give me a 4ohm impedance and I've got plenty of wattage to drive them.

Or I could even use 6 of them in a 3P + 3P configuration and end up with a 2.66 ohm impedance. At $22 each they are dirt cheap and my amp can handle a 2ohm load, so 2.66 should be fine.

It would be 4/3 + 4/3 = 8/3 = 2.666666 ohms.

 

[anton_Chez]

Nice feedback. I should have mine pretty soon, hopefully this week. I ended up buying another amp for the time being. I'll get the other one looked at and it can be repaired/replaced/thrown in the bin in its own time. At least I'll now be able to continue playing with effects and mounting options with the new units. The amp I found on the marketplace didn't eventuate, so I just bought another brand new one from the same place as I got the first NX1000D. Super annoying that, for whatever reason, I either found a cracker deal the first time, or they have just gone up in price recently. Cost me an extra hundred bucks. At least when I sell one of them, I should be able to recoup the new higher sale price.

Who knows, I may just go full stupid, keep both of them and get another couple of units. But I HIGHLY doubt that will be worthwhile for the level of tactile I seek to harness. Especially already having the G-Belt as well. I'm really glad to hear that the TST is working well with the Concert. That's definitely a good combo on paper and there is no debate that these models are the top of the food chain in their respective areas of tactile. Concert for low bass and power, and the TST range for the harmonics, range and subtlety. Look forward to putting mine through its paces. I won't need the software DSP stuff since I got another DSP model amp.

 

[mgh24]

Let me for the record confirm that the BK CT and TST329 are a great pairing.

Also with the high pass filters installed, I'm not hearing my TST329's with my Index off ear headphones on.

The TST329 operates in a range that generates a lot of sensations at higher frequencies that you can feel just fine and it compliments the BK CT very well by picking up where the CT leaves off.

For engine rpm the two feel like they combine beautifully and I'm pairing them up for multi-stage effects at different frequencies.

Based on my success with this pairing, I'm considering trying the exciters out next.

Looks like this will be a next month sort of thing.....

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm​

Back-Ordered
Estimated back in stock 9/17/2021

I was curious if I could just use 4 of them on a single channel with two lines in series and then both of those lines in parallel. That should give me a 4ohm impedance and I've got plenty of wattage to drive them.

Or I could even use 6 of them in a 3P + 3P configuration and end up with a 2.66 ohm impedance. At $22 each they are dirt cheap and my amp can handle a 2ohm load, so 2.66 should be fine.

It would be 4/3 + 4/3 = 8/3 = 2.666666 ohms.View attachment 496164

@RCHeliguy

Can you share how you have the Concert and TST mounted? (also looking forward to @anton_Chez results!)

I am willing to upgrade my hardware after saving a few more $ up, but I don't see a way to mount exciters to my seat - internal frame of some sort, no hard bucket to mount to, which limits me. I'm not against the idea of exciters, just don't see a way to use them on my seat, so looking for a good alternative. If I can get part way there with a CT or LFE, along with a TST, I would give that a try. It would certainly be an upgrade to what I have now.

Thanks

 

[blekenbleu]

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm​

Back-Ordered

Appearance aside, I slightly prefer DAEX30HESF.

 

[RCHeliguy]

@RCHeliguy

Can you share how you have the Concert and TST mounted? (also looking forward to

I have corner brackets bolted to my seat brackets in back and then a piece of 40x40 bolted to that. I then sandwiched a piece of 1/4" plate bolted to the top of the profile with a piece of 1/4" angle bolted to the front of the profile.

For the TST, I took a piece of 40x40 and through bolted my seat bracket with 8mm bolts from the inside of the bracket. Then I bolted a piece of 1/4" aluminum to that profile and a corner bracket.

 

[No Depth]

Looks like this will be a next month sort of thing.....

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm​

Back-Ordered
Estimated back in stock 9/17/2021

I was curious if I could just use 4 of them on a single channel with two lines in series and then both of those lines in parallel. That should give me a 4ohm impedance and I've got plenty of wattage to drive them.

Or I could even use 6 of them in a 3P + 3P configuration and end up with a 2.66 ohm impedance. At $22 each they are dirt cheap and my amp can handle a 2ohm load, so 2.66 should be fine.

It would be 4/3 + 4/3 = 8/3 = 2.666666 ohms.

I just replaced four of these on my rig over the weekend with Dayton pucks mounted to my seat instead. (And yes, earlier this year I had to wait months for restock too).

I prefer the pucks personally so far, but mileage varies it appears.

I know that they are hard to come by now(I too had to wait earlier this year for new stock), but happy to offload three of them to you now if interested(my 4th broke…). I was planning to just toss the good ones on eBay otherwise.

 

[anton_Chez]

Well you've already seen my temporary (for now, it may remain as is) mount for the Concert in between the seat and pedals, central on the chassis. For the TST, I definitely plan on a first attempt of getting it under the seat. There's plenty of room for that unit as is, compared to trying to get the CT under there. The size and shape of the TST suits the area perfectly. I'll need to see what mounting gear that they provide. First choice will be to have it mounted directly on the seat. Failing that, I can mount it to a plate or piece of profile spanning the main rails. I'm sure I'll think of something. I will more than likely need to remove the seat (annoying, I have everything exactly where I like it but I can mark it and get it back there so no massive deal) and since I need to do this, I will attempt to put the seat back down on some thick square rubber pads that I was previously using for something. It might have been the seat. I may as well, I have them and the bolts will be out so I can always give it a go. Plus, if the TST does indeed make it directly onto the seat, it should give a little bit of the isolation we're all killing each other over.

Just on that, in my mind, the only point of adding the isolation material/device, is when you actually have the units directly onto the seat or pedal deck. Since, if they're not, they don't really offer isolation to anything. The movement must originate in the area that you're isolating. So for me, having the CT mounted where it is, having the seat isolated with only that unit would prove pointless, in my mind. I'd like to hear a counter argument for that if there is one. In the coming days/weeks I'll no doubt be trying all sorts of things depending on the feeling I'm getting and look forward to once again reuniting the tactile and G-Belt experience.

On the exciters. I think I may have been using them incorrectly, perhaps. I think that they probably excel more when used as a high hz device, much higher than what I was using them at. I think with more harmonics and not as much lower hz coming through them, they can be run at a much higher gain (if desired) and therefore be felt a lot better not only overall, but also in tandem with a large unit that tapers off once you get around the 50hz and above range. So anyone using or thinking of using those, give that a try I reckon. You'll avoid over-driving them and in turn, the clacking you may experience when they are bouncing too hard on the shell of the seat.

Maybe don't write them off completely, but I still feel for me that the 2 large, different unit approach will definitely be more impressive than using the little exciters. Fingers crossed the hardware gets here soon and we can further the discussion.

 

[No Depth]

On the exciters. I think I may have been using them incorrectly, perhaps. I think that they probably excel more when used as a high hz device, much higher than what I was using them at. I think with more harmonics and not as much lower hz coming through them, they can be run at a much higher gain (if desired) and therefore be felt a lot better not only overall, but also in tandem with a large unit that tapers off once you get around the 50hz and above range. So anyone using or thinking of using those, give that a try I reckon. You'll avoid over-driving them and in turn, the clacking you may experience when they are bouncing too hard on the shell of the seat.

Maybe don't write them off completely, but I still feel for me that the 2 large, different unit approach will definitely be more impressive than using the little exciters. Fingers crossed the hardware gets here soon and we can further the discussion.

I dunno. I ran them for months on various tests between 60-120hz(usually in the 80 range). Layered in with effects from my BK(obv running MUCH lower freq on those).

Still didn’t really find them very engaging personally. This thread is filled with those that swear by them though, so perhaps my lack of DSP is to blame…

They were fine when isolated as the only effect(all else off), but the layering was barely resonant and overpowered with everything active. The tug of war was constant to dial in.

Often the clacking noise wasn’t from slamming the fiberglass, but occasional sharp spikes that must have been internally generated. This may be where the DSP filters out that stuff. But the telling thing for me was when I tested them on and off with the BK’s going. The difference just wasn’t as additive as I hoped.

Dayton pucks have way less hz range, but offer a nice subby hum I prefer over the rattle of the pucks. Layering the pucks with higher hz values to match my BK was more noticeable(less nuanced tho perhaps) But again, I’m in a minority it appears. Those running iNuke’s or Behringers with all the sine curves to dial them in likely will have better performance than my Douk M4 delivered(which is killing it with my pucks so far).

 

[Mr Latte]

@No Depth
What you or others having issues with the exciters don't show which is needed for better clarity is:

1) The effects settings you used and how you tried to combine the BK with the Exciters.
2) How your seat is isolated.
3) How you applied any form of filtering or control to the exciters?

 

[EsxPaul]

This is how I jacked up my frame in order to get clearance for the concert under the seat. I also shortened the seat rails so that they no longer spanned fully from left to right. That way I can slide the seat back and fourth and not have it collide with the rails.

 

[anton_Chez]

This is how I jacked up my frame in order to get clearance for the concert under the seat.

I take it that you're leaving it like that now? It doesn't look very temporary. The ONE thing I miss about the SFX-100, other than the heave effect, is the ability I had to raise the platform up as if it had its own air jacks. That was very helpful in getting underneath and working on things. In actual fact, dropping my seat as low as it could possibly go to maximise the feeling for the actuators has actually stuffed me up since I no longer need that AT ALL. It's made it harder to get into the rig, it's given me less space underneath to mount things and if I want to return it to the way it was before I've got to muck around with pretty much every part of the chassis. Seat & seat rails, pedal deck, wheel deck, changing the way the seat mount is configured (can't remember if I cut anything to make it fit better but if I did, RIP). So yeah, I'll have a look at it when I get a chance and see what can be done to make it all a bit more manageable. May as well do it now when I've got new units to mount. TST turned up today just waiting on the replacement amp.

 

[Mr Latte]

How many people use NX1000D for large BK units?
I would take care with that if you need to crank the amp up more due to no isolation.

Simhub global volume at 50% with effects upto 100% with the shared DSP settings for large BK should mean the user only needs the amp dials at 12-1pm positions for good output power. Most have followed recommendations to pay a little extra and use the 3000D that has more wattage for large BK with no wattage limiter applied and use the 1000D for TST. Then applying a wattage limiter of 100W on TST units.

 

[Novopaine]

If anyone is curious of the actual power the Behringer amp is producing, here's a video I came across. It's not the DSP version, but the amp specs are the same.

 

[anton_Chez]

If I were going to get another CT, I may have invested in the 3000 since I ended up replacing the amp that is out of action. But since I already know that the single CT is already massive on power and I had decided to pull the trigger on a TST Silver, I replaced it with the same amp. My reason is this: The CT runs at 2ohms, and the amps give higher power output for 2ohm units, so it's already maximising the potential output (and not relying on high gain settings) by selecting the appropriate BK model. Also, the TST requires MUCH less power than the BK, so that channel will not be anywhere near the potential output at 4ohms, which you know is listed at 300W per channel. I also know that I'm not interested in clogging up my chassis with further large BK units, especially since I already run harness tensioning and receive active feedback in forms other than tactile. I will say, for the price difference of 90 AUD, it probably does make sense to go the more powerful model. However, when I first bought the 1000 at the start of the year, it was 400 AUD and I'm certain that the 3000 was at the same price it is now, 590 AUD. So that was a saving of nearly the cost of the unit I bought the amp to power. In hindsight, the MQB-1 was a mistake however having the amp already made the decision to purchase the large BK unit and in turn the TST much easier to swallow. I'm now very grateful that I did that. If the experience wasn't soured by the premature failure of the amp (could be minor, I'm yet to have it looked at because apparently it's OK to force me to stay in my house for weeks at a time) it would have been even better knowing that even though I've gone about it the long way, sort of, I've finally ended up with a very capable tactile setup.

 

[EsxPaul]

I take it that you're leaving it like that now?

Yes mate, it's going to stay that way as I'm getting too old and creaky to keep laying on my back and dicking around underneath a rig.

With hindsight, I wish I had paid out for some 40x160 side rails to save all the messing around with cutting profile to jack it up. That was my punishment for being a cheap ass

 

[iv13]

@Mr Latte

So ive checked how it looks on Peters rig.

Is there any way to order this "Race Bass" invetion of yours? Its a nice idea, id like to support it.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Mr Latte

So ive checked how it looks on Peters rig.

Is there any way to order this "Race Bass" invetion of yours? Its a nice idea, id like to support it.

Hi, thanks for the interest, all I can say at the moment is keep an eye, more may be announced in the near future.

They have performed better than some off-the-shelf spring solutions I compared with including various rubber isolators costing up to $80 each that I previously had on my own rig.

No date or price or has yet been decided and they are being further tested bv my own beta testers and a popular Sim company.

Discussions are taking place, we will see what happens...

 

[iv13]

Hi, thanks for the interest, all I can say at the moment is keep an eye, more may be announced in the near future.

They have performed better than some off-the-shelf spring solutions I compared with including various rubber isolators costing up to $80 each that I previously had on my own rig.

No date or price or has yet been decided and they are being further tested bv my own beta testers and a popular Sim company.

Discussions are taking place, we will see what happens...

Near future is something within a few weeks? months? year?

I dont mind waiting, id just like to know and plan how long

I have to say, it looks excellent, hats off.

Id rather get that, than go with the "lesser route" and then switch.

I want to ask one more thing. The p1x has those extended legs with the long thick screws. Are those enough isolation, or do i need to get some rubber feet? I would want to minimize the noise output of the whole thing.

 

[Mr Latte]

Near future is something within a few weeks? months? year?

I dont mind waiting, id just like to know and plan how long

I have to say, it looks excellent, hats off.

Id rather get that, than go with the "lesser route" and then switch.

I want to ask one more thing. The p1x has those extended legs with the long thick screws. Are those enough isolation, or do i need to get some rubber feet? I would want to minimize the noise output of the whole thing.

I prefer the idea of months but who knows.

Two forms of isolation, first we isolate the seat/pedal regions to help better maintain the tactile and have the tactile going directly into these smaller platforms that we decouple from the rest of the rig.

As for the feet of a rig on the floor, I refer to that as secondary isolation in that some users may also want to apply additional materials or solutions to reduce vibrations travelling into other rooms.

One or two of my beta testers, require this but as yet they are not quite up and running to be able to get 1-1 feedback from them on how well the springs help on a typical rig to also suppress the vibes into the floor.

This is one of the things the beta tests will help determine.

 

[blekenbleu]

The p1x has those extended legs with the long thick screws. Are those enough isolation

If you mean these:

.. they are essentially rigid and generally provide levelling, rather than isolation.
Rubber feet are an option: