Yesterday I installed the shaker below my pedals, with the small mono amplifier, plugged into the center channel of my motherboard. It works fine. I set it to 100% volume in Simhub, and 40% for the shakers on my seat. I've raised the volume for road rumble, road impacts and road vibration to 100%, since I'm unable to distinguish any differences between them. Now the vibrations feel better distributed, and not all on my seat. The engine vibration is especially noticiable on the pedals.
Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software
- Thread starter Mr Latte
- Start date
Hello, I have a question (following up from very helpful advice in the last couple weeks)
Reminder, I currently have:
- Behringer NX1000D
- 2x BK Mini-LFE.
Quite happy, to be honest, but *considering* the idea to get one of the bigger LFE units (reading all the recommendations in so many posts here).
What I'm trying to understand is if my NX1000D can do a reasonable job to drive that, on-top of the 2x Mini-LFEs....
- reading the specs (min 400w, max 1500w), I think no, but I wonder....
- If I remember correct, the NX1000D can output 500W per channel @2ohm.
- Would it be nonsense to get the Concert LFE (2 ohm, I believe), and connect that to one channel of the NX1000D (of course I assume that single channel then needs to be configured as 2 ohm, which I think is possible?)
- Then run the other 2x mini-LFE's off of the 2nd channel? I don't know if would need to be in series/parallel, or whatever.
Really, no idea about configuration/placement at the moment. Just wondering if that's technically even feasible, or something that would not really be recommended.
Thanks for the continuing education.
Reminder, I currently have:
- Behringer NX1000D
- 2x BK Mini-LFE.
Quite happy, to be honest, but *considering* the idea to get one of the bigger LFE units (reading all the recommendations in so many posts here).
What I'm trying to understand is if my NX1000D can do a reasonable job to drive that, on-top of the 2x Mini-LFEs....
- reading the specs (min 400w, max 1500w), I think no, but I wonder....
- If I remember correct, the NX1000D can output 500W per channel @2ohm.
- Would it be nonsense to get the Concert LFE (2 ohm, I believe), and connect that to one channel of the NX1000D (of course I assume that single channel then needs to be configured as 2 ohm, which I think is possible?)
- Then run the other 2x mini-LFE's off of the 2nd channel? I don't know if would need to be in series/parallel, or whatever.
Really, no idea about configuration/placement at the moment. Just wondering if that's technically even feasible, or something that would not really be recommended.
Thanks for the continuing education.
Would these be any good for pedals? I'm thinking one on either side of my CSP V3's, or would I need more oomph?
Here are a couple side by sides of the Thruster vs the HESF.
DAEX32P-4 vs DAEX30HESF-4
Note the bolt holes are designed to hold the BACK against a solid object, and the sound board to be suspended off the front with 3M, on the HESF.
The Thruster is only intended to be mounted to one object,and vibrate it via the 3M mounting.
You should be able see the flexible cone on the HESF and how it basically works.
DAEX32P-4 vs DAEX30HESF-4
Note the bolt holes are designed to hold the BACK against a solid object, and the sound board to be suspended off the front with 3M, on the HESF.
The Thruster is only intended to be mounted to one object,and vibrate it via the 3M mounting.
You should be able see the flexible cone on the HESF and how it basically works.
I hate to say this, but really... it depends.
If you have no other tactile, you should feel it fairly easily. If you have other tactile, then it will quickly get muddled into that. Also, it kind of depends on how solid your mounting plate is. The more flex it has, the easier these can move it. Regardless, I would be surprised if you noticed significant stereo effects.
The other consideration is in "what" you want to feel. If you expect to feel much in the lower hertz ranges (sub 40), you will probably not. These excel as your frequencies get away from the bottom.
Maybe someone has these installed on their pedal plate and can give real world experience. I don't. I have 4 motors and a BKMini currently.
Ok, thanks. I'm not using any tactile feedback at the moment. I have an Rseat RS1 and there is a bit of flex on the wheel mount - been thinking about getting the upgraded Pro pedal plate but that's £200
So, maybe a better starting point would be:
1 x basspump seat bottom centre
1 x basspump pedals (no stereo affect)
2 x DAEX32P-4 seat lower back.
I already own the basspumps and have a capable amp (albiet it's a bit big).
These are the pumps Sinus Live Bass Pump
Ok, thanks. I'm not using any tactile feedback at the moment. I have an Rseat RS1 and there is a bit of flex on the wheel mount - been thinking about getting the upgraded Pro pedal plate but that's £200
So, maybe a better starting point would be:
1 x basspump seat bottom centre
1 x basspump pedals (no stereo affect)
2 x DAEX32P-4 seat lower back.
I already own the basspumps and have a capable amp (albiet it's a bit big).
These are the pumps Sinus Live Bass Pump
I 100% think trying out what you have in different locations is a great idea. You don't know what things will feel like until you try it. Doesn't matter what or where, high end or DIY...getting some stuff mounted up and seeing how it feels will give you the best ideas. Once you get a feel for what things do where - you can then better decide on what to add/upgrade based on feedback on forums like this.
You may decide to go BK-LFE's ran off NX3000D's, or more Exciters all over ran by TPA3116 boards. Or maybe you are 100% content with what you have. Key point is you have options from the extreme to the most simple. As for the bass pumps, I have no opinion on them...I have not researched or used those personally. But, you have em - so may as well use em!
Mr Latte
Premium
Its over complicating things and then having two BK mini operating the same which limits then potentially what effects you would use. Get the 2ohm BK Concert for the 1000D. I seem to have no issues the last couple of month using the older iNuke DSP1000 with 2xBK Concert.
Once you feel what the BK Concert provides you will not want to likely keep the 2x BK Mini and you may find yourself then wanting to have 2x BK Concert for either seat/pedals mono config or stereo on the seat.
BK Mini
Power Handling: 50 watts min / 250 watts max.
Piston Weight: 6 Oz / 0.17 kg
BK Concert:
Piston Weight: 3.75 lbs / 1.48 kg
Power Handling: 400 watts min. / 1500 watts max
Having the piston @9x heavier makes a big difference to the output of the unit and the low frequencies.
When some of the guys here get these installed I have a simple test for them to try.
Id like people to give their own feedback opinions on how it feels to what they were used to before prior to experiencing the large BK Concert.
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I have no doubt that I will end up upgrading / going down the slippery slope
. ALready bought the additional sound card . Will see what effects I get with the Bass pumps first before any further outlay. Like you said, might as well try them out.All of this because I can't get my Gametrix Jetseat working on ACC
Do you have one per channel? So basically running them at 500W/2ohm each?
Edit> I found some of your prior posts about this.
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Mr Latte
Premium
The wattage is not a problem, the amp states it offers 625w @2ohms (Peak Ratings)
You will not even have the 1000D at max volume.
The output with the soundcard at 100% and these amps having (input level control), as well as volume level output, ensure we don't need the full wattage.
Mr Latte
Premium
So today, I was researching "Game Audio" from ACC for increased learning...
You generally don't find many people looking into this or covering such in much detail.
Lets see what we find when playing around with some of my audio toys.
Here are some captures to compare what the Behringer HA6000 is able to do with the audio.
Test was done with first two captures at moderate volume using the BMW car, with approx 3000 RPM, we could see higher dB levels with the frequencies if the soundcard was set to max volume and this was done in the last capture. In all tests but stated no EQ was applied to the soundcard, this was a test to see what the HA6000 I have recommended is doing.
The purpose of this experimentation being shared is to show how "Gain Level" and (+)increases compared to (-)decreases with Bass & Treble (Tone controls) alter the output. I find it interesting being able to see this rather than just turn knobs not knowing/seeing what they are doing. Monitoring the audio for me is a large part of the learning/interest and finding ways of understanding the audio and then improving it for tactile.
Using the HA6000 to demonstrate what it does with no gain adjustment but with (+) Max bass/treble & (-) Max bass/treble settings. (Soundcard Moderate Volume)
Now we compare having both (+)max gain applied with (+)max bass/treble to normal soundcard output with no gain or no bass/treble adjustments. (Soundcard Moderate Volume)
In this capture we now have (+)max input gain with (+)max output gain for bass and (-)max for treble to having no gains with output level or bass/treble adjustments. (Soundcard Max Volume)
Thoughts:
If you look at these closely comparing these we see that when it comes to altering "Game Audio" for tactile the HA6000 brings quite a lot of control.
Gain clearly boost all frequencies, (not always a good thing) but the HA6000 bass controls seem to have most application upto @ 200Hz range and with treble it appears to operate beyond this.
Although it has to be highlighted we can see a large amount of audio beyond the 150-200Hz range we want for the upper bass limits for tactile usage. This is what most generates the "audible sound" from units and in particular "Exciters or TST" models that operate more like speakers without the speaker cone.
We can still see the need for either advanced EQ/Crossover via software or Hardware to better reduce/control these upper frequencies and harmonics if wanting to get the best control out of "Game Audio Tactile" being incorporated into a rig.
ACC as an example (like other sims) does have quite a lot of nice audio/tactile character, no question it can add to the sensation and immersion in ways we cant with Simhub but we certainly need to have simple controls to alter this. That is what my own testing confirms.
From my own perspective in seeking to push the boundaries for immersion but with control and high performance. I feel I may want some form of DSP control for the "Game Audio Tactile" to the channels that I may send or mix it to and the different models (BK/TST/Exciters) I will use.
Lets do one last test, as we can within Windows 10 have "dual audio output" for the "primary audio" over two soundcard/devices. We could use one of these for speakers and its own EQ via 1 soundcard and then have different EQ and settings for the second soundcard we want for "Game Audio Tactile".
Lets in the following tests also look at setting a soundcard now with the below EQ.
Applying some bass gain but with all frequencies of 250Hz above at max cut possible.
A user will typically boost the gain/volume to help feel more the bass but with "Game Audio Tactile" in doing this we also boost the high frequencies too.
Here we see what this is doing with the last test above but now with the soundcard EQ settings above.
We have what a proper crossover could achieve (at top). You can notice that the higher frequencies in the top are completely cut yet with trying to use the soundcard in this way with only as a means of reducing the high frequencies. So they still will be audible (if less loud but still heard) with no crossover in place
This is also with the HA6000 set with max bass and full treble cut with its tone controls. So It is evident while this can help it is still a compromise to what proper PEQ and Crossover controls can achieve to remove the audible sounds and harmonics that would go to the transducers/exciters with (Game Audio Tactile).
What the HA6000 is bringing is very easy to adjust on the fly gain and bass/treble adjustment. So even without seeing what it is doing you still can feel those changes you make to it controls.
I do suggest those seeking to get the best or most out of "Game Audio Tactile" we need to consider having a usable crossover and even potentially good EQ abilities to control this best as a source for tactile. Perhaps I could look in future at some software options to see how they perform but I do find me wanting to avoid having more and more software tools to configure or tune. It also seems easier in hardware with less fuss needed. This would, however, be the options for others to consider if wanting maximum control.
Before & After:
No Audio Control Vs With Recommended (User Adjustable) Audio Control Options
Approx (Bass & Treble) frequency ranges highlighted.
Let it be said based on findings with this test. Those that use "Game Audio Tactile" with no approach to try and control it clearly will not find too often, good results with it. That is one reason why it is not enjoyed by everyone or found to bring much potential without drawbacks or issues.
What we do see with the above is big differences with "before and after" such recommendations are used.
Bottom line, is "Game Audio Tactile" worth using?
The answer = YES.
The problem is that to get the best from it requires having good control and adjustment options. Also with easy convenience as well.
You generally don't find many people looking into this or covering such in much detail.
Lets see what we find when playing around with some of my audio toys.
Here are some captures to compare what the Behringer HA6000 is able to do with the audio.
Test was done with first two captures at moderate volume using the BMW car, with approx 3000 RPM, we could see higher dB levels with the frequencies if the soundcard was set to max volume and this was done in the last capture. In all tests but stated no EQ was applied to the soundcard, this was a test to see what the HA6000 I have recommended is doing.
The purpose of this experimentation being shared is to show how "Gain Level" and (+)increases compared to (-)decreases with Bass & Treble (Tone controls) alter the output. I find it interesting being able to see this rather than just turn knobs not knowing/seeing what they are doing. Monitoring the audio for me is a large part of the learning/interest and finding ways of understanding the audio and then improving it for tactile.
Using the HA6000 to demonstrate what it does with no gain adjustment but with (+) Max bass/treble & (-) Max bass/treble settings. (Soundcard Moderate Volume)
Now we compare having both (+)max gain applied with (+)max bass/treble to normal soundcard output with no gain or no bass/treble adjustments. (Soundcard Moderate Volume)
In this capture we now have (+)max input gain with (+)max output gain for bass and (-)max for treble to having no gains with output level or bass/treble adjustments. (Soundcard Max Volume)
Thoughts:
If you look at these closely comparing these we see that when it comes to altering "Game Audio" for tactile the HA6000 brings quite a lot of control.
Gain clearly boost all frequencies, (not always a good thing) but the HA6000 bass controls seem to have most application upto @ 200Hz range and with treble it appears to operate beyond this.
Although it has to be highlighted we can see a large amount of audio beyond the 150-200Hz range we want for the upper bass limits for tactile usage. This is what most generates the "audible sound" from units and in particular "Exciters or TST" models that operate more like speakers without the speaker cone.
We can still see the need for either advanced EQ/Crossover via software or Hardware to better reduce/control these upper frequencies and harmonics if wanting to get the best control out of "Game Audio Tactile" being incorporated into a rig.
ACC as an example (like other sims) does have quite a lot of nice audio/tactile character, no question it can add to the sensation and immersion in ways we cant with Simhub but we certainly need to have simple controls to alter this. That is what my own testing confirms.
From my own perspective in seeking to push the boundaries for immersion but with control and high performance. I feel I may want some form of DSP control for the "Game Audio Tactile" to the channels that I may send or mix it to and the different models (BK/TST/Exciters) I will use.
Lets do one last test, as we can within Windows 10 have "dual audio output" for the "primary audio" over two soundcard/devices. We could use one of these for speakers and its own EQ via 1 soundcard and then have different EQ and settings for the second soundcard we want for "Game Audio Tactile".
Lets in the following tests also look at setting a soundcard now with the below EQ.
Applying some bass gain but with all frequencies of 250Hz above at max cut possible.
A user will typically boost the gain/volume to help feel more the bass but with "Game Audio Tactile" in doing this we also boost the high frequencies too.
Here we see what this is doing with the last test above but now with the soundcard EQ settings above.
We have what a proper crossover could achieve (at top). You can notice that the higher frequencies in the top are completely cut yet with trying to use the soundcard in this way with only as a means of reducing the high frequencies. So they still will be audible (if less loud but still heard) with no crossover in place
This is also with the HA6000 set with max bass and full treble cut with its tone controls. So It is evident while this can help it is still a compromise to what proper PEQ and Crossover controls can achieve to remove the audible sounds and harmonics that would go to the transducers/exciters with (Game Audio Tactile).
What the HA6000 is bringing is very easy to adjust on the fly gain and bass/treble adjustment. So even without seeing what it is doing you still can feel those changes you make to it controls.
I do suggest those seeking to get the best or most out of "Game Audio Tactile" we need to consider having a usable crossover and even potentially good EQ abilities to control this best as a source for tactile. Perhaps I could look in future at some software options to see how they perform but I do find me wanting to avoid having more and more software tools to configure or tune. It also seems easier in hardware with less fuss needed. This would, however, be the options for others to consider if wanting maximum control.
Before & After:
No Audio Control Vs With Recommended (User Adjustable) Audio Control Options
Approx (Bass & Treble) frequency ranges highlighted.
Let it be said based on findings with this test. Those that use "Game Audio Tactile" with no approach to try and control it clearly will not find too often, good results with it. That is one reason why it is not enjoyed by everyone or found to bring much potential without drawbacks or issues.
What we do see with the above is big differences with "before and after" such recommendations are used.
Bottom line, is "Game Audio Tactile" worth using?
The answer = YES.
The problem is that to get the best from it requires having good control and adjustment options. Also with easy convenience as well.
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So I finally got into the EQ for my SB today and decided to see if I could tune out some noise from the TST209. Dropping all the >200 stuff helped, but the bigger issue was what I thought was noise from it was the actually wire connectors rattling on the Aura B2-4 right beside it, lol. None the less, I was able to cut the noise to where it IS usable both via some EQ work and the connectors.
So - I started some 1:1 work - 209 vs the other Aura. In short, the 209 is too light (apparently) to really shove the low end bass. The Aura crushed it at everything below 60 or so. I didn't get too in depth since it was an obvious knock out. Conversely, the same was true at everything above 60. 209 obliterated the Aura in the higher stuff...even when pushed at about 50 watts! And I don't mean it kind of did better, it was a difference between looking out into a field at night with new moon vs broad daylight. Literally, night and day difference.
Yes, I did try running the TST at full power, but it only did little better in the low end and still failed to match the Aura. What does that mean for me? Probably nothing. I plan on swapping out the Aura's for the BK-LFE anyway. Pairing the two should give me some beautiful range as Mr Latte indicated earlier. I may, however, swap out the BK-Mini w/ an Aura or at least add the Aura to the pedal plate. I am 1000% disappointed with the Mini. Maybe it happens to have been abused and is near end of life (I did pick it up used)... but it just doesn't give me much love. The Aura's also crush it in the low end. Again, it does better in the higher frequencies which is why I'm thinking maybe add vs replace. IDK - just kind of musings of ideas ATM.
None the less -- if anyone is looking for high frequency impact (like 80 - 200 [for me 79-132-184 were great peaks]) the 209 excels! I would suspect the 439's would blow it away, but the 209 does more than enough for me! I will be looking to pick up a second 209 now. Latte has indicated they are fantastic, but even they (439) lack great low end presence, but that is where the BK-LFE's apparently pawn.
So - I started some 1:1 work - 209 vs the other Aura. In short, the 209 is too light (apparently) to really shove the low end bass. The Aura crushed it at everything below 60 or so. I didn't get too in depth since it was an obvious knock out. Conversely, the same was true at everything above 60. 209 obliterated the Aura in the higher stuff...even when pushed at about 50 watts! And I don't mean it kind of did better, it was a difference between looking out into a field at night with new moon vs broad daylight. Literally, night and day difference.
Yes, I did try running the TST at full power, but it only did little better in the low end and still failed to match the Aura. What does that mean for me? Probably nothing. I plan on swapping out the Aura's for the BK-LFE anyway. Pairing the two should give me some beautiful range as Mr Latte indicated earlier. I may, however, swap out the BK-Mini w/ an Aura or at least add the Aura to the pedal plate. I am 1000% disappointed with the Mini. Maybe it happens to have been abused and is near end of life (I did pick it up used)... but it just doesn't give me much love. The Aura's also crush it in the low end. Again, it does better in the higher frequencies which is why I'm thinking maybe add vs replace. IDK - just kind of musings of ideas ATM.
None the less -- if anyone is looking for high frequency impact (like 80 - 200 [for me 79-132-184 were great peaks]) the 209 excels! I would suspect the 439's would blow it away, but the 209 does more than enough for me! I will be looking to pick up a second 209 now. Latte has indicated they are fantastic, but even they (439) lack great low end presence, but that is where the BK-LFE's apparently pawn.
Mr Latte
Premium
Nice work on the tests and comparisons.
Do keep in mind though that simple sinewave tones while useful to help determine the character output of a unit, will not give a real-world usage scenario from the perspective of how we are using them. We are never really just using simple tones on their own but usually a combination of different frequencies and effects output at one time.
You can use RPM as a way to create an effect to test a frequency range from in-game and use the RPM range to become your frequency sweep.
Interesting that you are confirming things I have said in the past, which is good even on a very different rig or installation. It becomes quite clear what the benefits and limitations are with each unit when you compare them really and you begin to see how combining two well suited, yet very different performance units can achieve more than either one. Even if both are not used on the same channel in a "Dual Role" configuration they can each have their own channels and individual layers for specific effect enhancements.
Achieving 1-200Hz Bass
We you guys feel the combination of having good sensations from the lowest bass and also like mentioned above the benefits of increased detailing with mid and higher frequencies, it will make you re-think how and what frequencies you use in effects.
It just opens the door for much greater immersion. As one example with "Engine Sensations," you will then begin to discover how we can apply low bass layers for key character elements of engines for cars. How that low bass can use specif frequencies to give key sensations, certainly ones you have not felt before with the entry-level models. Yet at the same time you can have much more zing and life from the energy in the high RPM as well.
I will be keen to see what you guys discover and then can make with effects of you own. As I will also look forward to sharing with you guys some engine effects based on many hours of my own testing.
Do keep in mind though that simple sinewave tones while useful to help determine the character output of a unit, will not give a real-world usage scenario from the perspective of how we are using them. We are never really just using simple tones on their own but usually a combination of different frequencies and effects output at one time.
You can use RPM as a way to create an effect to test a frequency range from in-game and use the RPM range to become your frequency sweep.
Interesting that you are confirming things I have said in the past, which is good even on a very different rig or installation. It becomes quite clear what the benefits and limitations are with each unit when you compare them really and you begin to see how combining two well suited, yet very different performance units can achieve more than either one. Even if both are not used on the same channel in a "Dual Role" configuration they can each have their own channels and individual layers for specific effect enhancements.
Achieving 1-200Hz Bass
We you guys feel the combination of having good sensations from the lowest bass and also like mentioned above the benefits of increased detailing with mid and higher frequencies, it will make you re-think how and what frequencies you use in effects.
It just opens the door for much greater immersion. As one example with "Engine Sensations," you will then begin to discover how we can apply low bass layers for key character elements of engines for cars. How that low bass can use specif frequencies to give key sensations, certainly ones you have not felt before with the entry-level models. Yet at the same time you can have much more zing and life from the energy in the high RPM as well.
I will be keen to see what you guys discover and then can make with effects of you own. As I will also look forward to sharing with you guys some engine effects based on many hours of my own testing.
Do you know how can I assign a lower percentage of engine vibration to some of my channels with SimHub? I have it quite high because I like how it feels on my pedals. However, I don't want to completelly disable from the shakers on my seat, just reduce it a little. Is this possible. Thank you.
I do not remember the naming convention, and not at home to look at it -- but that is actually very easy to accomplish. You just "copy the effect", and assign it to whatever channel you want. It's literally that simple!
Quick example:
Gear shift- set to a 20Hz tone and 100%
Copy that effect and on the right give it a custom name, perhaps "soft"
Set the tone to say 20Hz @ 25%
Now when you look at your assignments on the channel page you will see
GearShift
then at the bottom you will see
Gear Shift
soft
Then you just assign the new effect like you would any other effect to whichever channels you want.
Once you do it one time, it will make perfect sense, and you will probably start using it to combine effects across different units. Very very useful for making things feel better... regardless if it's entry level, or high end. If you have seen any posts about layering effects, and such -- this a method to do that.
Yeah, I was not at all surprised at the results after reading your testing over the last few months. I thought it worthwhile to compare it against different units especially since I have the cheaper 209 and Aura's to play with. I don't have the set up to do the in depth testing you do -- but I can at least try to share what I can ascertain from phone vibrometers and seat-of-the-pants testing.
What I am actually finding somewhat surprising is the level of impact does not seem to be nearly as predicated on the rig as I expected. I know your setup will weigh probably 4 times mine. Even just your isolated seat vs my isolated seat have huge differences in mass -- yet the results are very similar. I'm sure you are losing some energy from the weight, but probably gaining because of your mounting --- I'm losing some from my mounting, but gaining a ton of transference because of a lighter mass to work with. Especially in the lower frequencies where you have a longer gap in the wave.
I'm really beginning to think weight is having less of an impact, while rigidity may have the bigger impact. That kind of fits with why direct mounting and proximity matter so much as well. We know sound waves travel best in hard surfaces and diminish over a distance. So the harder and closer the better! It may not matter so much if it weighs 25lbs or 100lbs...
Kind of backtracking to tactile units themselves -- I think I'm kind of proving a very good thing for most of us. We CAN look at good empirical testing by others, such as yourself, and gain a solid idea of how units will respond on our rig. It seems that the impact is more relational to the Tactile units and location proximity than the rig design, not including separation and isolation. IE - a cheap rig with good isolation is going to behave similar to an 80/20 rig with good isolation assuming similar install and identical units (including amps).
As you suggested eons ago, crossing out unwanted frequencies helps. I've also confirmed that at least most of these units really WANT to be at their MAX RMS to really respond in the lower range. (Granted that can be manipulated by your source - but all things equal, they want their power to perform.) What this is telling me, is that we can take a suggestion such as your tried and tested NX3000D paired with Two BK-LFE's - and have a very safe assumption that if it works well on your rig, that it will also work on "mine". Again, assuming the time and effort is spent on proper mounting, isolation, etc. Key point being GOOD testing gives valid information that can be applied regardless of your specific rig.
Hi again, I have another question I wasn't really able to understand in the earlier posts.
Isolation.
When putting some isolation material between metal, there's still going to be the bolt/connector that likely will be well in contact with the metal pieces on either side of the isolation? I assume that some vibration/energy still gets transferred? Do nylon washers help?
As example.
My mini-life is mounted right to the bottom of my seat. Is good.
I have a Sparco rigid seat, mounted to my 8020 rig with standard seat brackets.
But I was thinking to put some sort of isolation between the side of the seat, and the seat bracket (where they are now touching, and I guess the first point some vibration can escape from the seat).
But in any case, the bolt that goes through the seat-bracket and into the side of the seat, will still touch the metal seat-bracket even if I have some isolation material between the seat and the bracket itself. Is that just accepted to be 'minimal/unavoidable', or would a nylon washer there be of some help?
Isolation.
When putting some isolation material between metal, there's still going to be the bolt/connector that likely will be well in contact with the metal pieces on either side of the isolation? I assume that some vibration/energy still gets transferred? Do nylon washers help?
As example.
My mini-life is mounted right to the bottom of my seat. Is good.
I have a Sparco rigid seat, mounted to my 8020 rig with standard seat brackets.
But I was thinking to put some sort of isolation between the side of the seat, and the seat bracket (where they are now touching, and I guess the first point some vibration can escape from the seat).
But in any case, the bolt that goes through the seat-bracket and into the side of the seat, will still touch the metal seat-bracket even if I have some isolation material between the seat and the bracket itself. Is that just accepted to be 'minimal/unavoidable', or would a nylon washer there be of some help?
There are solutions which have a rubber spacer in between. Think of it like you mount to two different sides of the rubber so there are now two bolts instead of one through bolt. Lot's of options, but yeah - if you run a bolt through and through and tighten it down, not really isolating. Two bolts with rubber between them does.
More questions on isolation.
Doing some research, it seems that lots of the commercially available vibration mats/materials are made of (or with significant portion) of EVA foam? More research, it seems there are a lot of things that are made of EVA foam, that are much more accessible than purpose-made vibration mats (at least in my situation). Examples include Yoga blocks, and also some blocks made as children toys (in fact, I know I have some of those children's blocks around in a box somewhere.... need to find them and experiment a bit).
Has anyone found the same? Already experimented? Am I barking up an empty tree?
Some ideas:
- putting some yoga blocks under the frame rails of a rig (like my 8020) might help to limit vibration going through to floor?
- cutting some slivers of the foam blocks (maybe 1-2cm?) might be a good way to sandwich between things like seat mount/frame? Also maybe between a set of pedals and the pedal deck?
- in my situation, in case I find those blocks in my storage somewhere, I'm going to try to put some slices between the seat (sparco, rigid) and the seat brackets.
Doing some research, it seems that lots of the commercially available vibration mats/materials are made of (or with significant portion) of EVA foam? More research, it seems there are a lot of things that are made of EVA foam, that are much more accessible than purpose-made vibration mats (at least in my situation). Examples include Yoga blocks, and also some blocks made as children toys (in fact, I know I have some of those children's blocks around in a box somewhere.... need to find them and experiment a bit).
Has anyone found the same? Already experimented? Am I barking up an empty tree?
Some ideas:
- putting some yoga blocks under the frame rails of a rig (like my 8020) might help to limit vibration going through to floor?
- cutting some slivers of the foam blocks (maybe 1-2cm?) might be a good way to sandwich between things like seat mount/frame? Also maybe between a set of pedals and the pedal deck?
- in my situation, in case I find those blocks in my storage somewhere, I'm going to try to put some slices between the seat (sparco, rigid) and the seat brackets.
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