Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

BuboBubo · Mar 9, 2020

First off, thanks Mr. Latte for sharing so much of your experimentation and driving forward how people think about tactile immersion and the benefits. I am going to try and do my best to describe what I'm thinking to see what your thoughts are and get some feedback on moving forward.

Right now, I am set on prioritizing tactile feedback over a DD wheel cause you've really sold me on the possibilities. I forgot the video, but I saw one with a pro racer who started sim racing and he mentioned that he never realized how much he drove with his butt. I'm really excited to add this level of immersion.

I'm using a Simlab GT1 right now and my goal is to start with 4 shakers in each corner. My budget is around $1,500 and my plan right now is to build a solid starting foundation by prioritizing the amp(s) and the isolation materials and then spending the rest on shakers. The fact is that with that budget I can't afford 4 BK LFEs unless I find a screaming deal on ebay and haven't had any luck so far.

In terms of amp, it seems like I would be crazy not to get the Behringer NXD based on everything I've seen from you. It seems like most people use a couple 2-channel amps, but I'm open to starting with a 4-channel, just haven't seen you mention that a ton and I'm not sure if you have a gold standard 4-channel like you do the Behringer NXD.

In terms of isolation, I saw a post where you mentioned going into it somewhere in this thread, but I haven't been able to track it down. I understand the principle of how to isolate based on a number of your posts, but just haven't found what materials you're currently thinking would be a good start. Any guidance on what I should be looking for to mount and isolate on 80/20?

This would leave the shakers and it seems like I may have a few options that would work for now until I can upgrade later. The BK mini lfe, Aurora, or the reckhorn are some I've seen pop up, but I'm certainly looking for guidance.

Here is my thinking on possible starting points. All prices are assuming new, not used and I add a little for taxes and shipping.

Scenario 1:

Two Behringer NX1000D amps = $369*2 = $750ish
Mounts,isolation material,wiring = ?? Assuming a $200-$300 for high quality material, but no clue
Four BK Mini-LFE = $400

Scenario 2:

One Behringer NX1000d = $370
Mounts, isolation, wiring = $150
Two BK LFE = $260 * 2 = $550 after tax

I'm not sure if I'm missing other possibilities, but I was hoping you could help me get started on the right foot here. I just want to invest now in a great amp and isolation materials because if I get that right I think that upgrading shakers is the easy part.

Thanks again, Mr. Latte for keeping this thread going and really driving this stuff forward. I am excited to contribute what I learn as I experiment myself.

Edit: Realize I need a sound card too, but that is a negligible cost in the scheme of things.

bassun · Mar 10, 2020

gnoshme said:
@bassun I think the simple suggestions seem the best, but I think the only thing you'll hurt by cracking the case is the label. There will be a rudimentary circuit board in the flat block under the label and I bet the case splits in a way that the side away from the terminals is just a "lid". The only slightly fragile part of these internally is the wiring that goes from the circuit board to the actual shaker unit. The big unknown is if the broken banana females are the circuit board mount type, or the threaded shaft / bolt type that would be connected by wires. BK themselves are unlikely to be helpful. I sent them a photo of the component on the circuit board of my BK Mini that was fried asking if they could send me one, and they said that the component wasn't replaceable and the unit was irreparable which is a joke. The part only cost 50c and took 10 minutes to replace in the end.

Yeah, I agree. I cannot imagine there is too much to risk taking it apart. But I'm going to try the non-invasive option first. I don't "need" the connects it has - I just need connections. So not too worried about making that happen from the outside. If I end up cracking one open, I'll do a tear-down thread so everyone can see what they may be dealing with.

bassun · Mar 10, 2020

BuboBubo said:
My budget is around $1,500 and my plan right now is to build a solid starting foundation by prioritizing the amp(s) and the isolation materials and then spending the rest on shakers. The fact is that with that budget I can't afford 4 BK LFEs unless I find a screaming deal on ebay and haven't had any luck so far.

In terms of amp, it seems like I would be crazy not to get the Behringer NXD based on everything I've seen from you. It seems like most people use a couple 2-channel amps, but I'm open to starting with a 4-channel, just haven't seen you mention that a ton and I'm not sure if you have a gold standard 4-channel like you do the Behringer NXD.

In terms of isolation, I saw a post where you mentioned going into it somewhere in this thread, but I haven't been able to track it down. I understand the principle of how to isolate based on a number of your posts, but just haven't found what materials you're currently thinking would be a good start. Any guidance on what I should be looking for to mount and isolate on 80/20?

This would leave the shakers and it seems like I may have a few options that would work for now until I can upgrade later. The BK mini lfe, Aurora, or the reckhorn are some I've seen pop up, but I'm certainly looking for guidance.

Here is my thinking on possible starting points. All prices are assuming new, not used and I add a little for taxes and shipping.

Scenario 1:

Two Behringer NX1000D amps = $369*2 = $750ish

Mounts,isolation material,wiring = ?? Assuming a $200-$300 for high quality material, but no clue

Four BK Mini-LFE = $400

Scenario 2:

One Behringer NX1000d = $370

Mounts, isolation, wiring = $150

Two BK LFE = $260 * 2 = $550 after tax

Hey Bubo - welcome to the fray!
So - a couple things to consider while Mr Latte puts together his solid response:
I think you may have meant NX3000D for the BK-LFE solution?
LFE use 400-1500 watts
Mini - 50 - 250 watts
NX3000D = up to 900W per channel (4 ohm)
NX1000D = up to 300W per channel (4 ohm)
My testing indicates shakers do not seem to like being under-powered by much. On a good note, you could probably get by with 1 NX1000D for 4 BK-Mini's, power wise- but of course that negates individual channel control. I don't think it will matter once you get his suggestion.

I suspect the advice will be to skip the mini's, get the BK-LFE's and Dayton Exciters, specifically these and attach them to your seat. I am not sure what he will recommend to drive them with. Any of the last 500 or so posts should explain why the Exciter / BK-LFE combo will be suggested.

There were some isolation posts previously - I want to say between pages 80-105ish - but that's just going off a gut memory. Key point - there are some very detailed posts if you scan back.

As for BK-LFE's - deals can be had. You just have to be patient if you want to find them -- and get a little lucky. You may find a suggestion to forgo looking for 4 BK-LFE's and look for 2 LFE and 2 TST-439's (maybe gold or platinum) if I remember correctly. That is the "dual role" concept he mentions. I don't even have my big stuff hooked up yet - but quick testing on a lower end TST that I stumbled across a great deal on shows amazing response in the higher end (still under 200 hz).

I think the premo starter solution today is something similar to:
2 BK-LFE in stereo attached to the seat bottom.
4-8 Dayton Exciters over 2-4 channels spread out over your seat back.

Then you start looking at the pedal plate (I want to say a single BK-LFE unless you separate your pedals and pedal plate) and updating the seat with the TST's for dual role.

That said -- Even cheaper solutions add a huge level!!! But, you indicated you have $1500 to play with - so I would suggest less toys, but better ones! Looking forward to seeing what you end up building out, and what Mr Latte suggests for a blank slate and $1500 bucks.

BuboBubo · Mar 10, 2020

bassun said:
Hey Bubo - welcome to the fray!
So - a couple things to consider while Mr Latte puts together his solid response:
I think you may have meant NX3000D for the BK-LFE solution?
LFE use 400-1500 watts
Mini - 50 - 250 watts
NX3000D = up to 900W per channel (4 ohm)
NX1000D = up to 300W per channel (4 ohm)
My testing indicates shakers do not seem to like being under-powered by much. On a good note, you could probably get by with 1 NX1000D for 4 BK-Mini's, power wise- but of course that negates individual channel control. I don't think it will matter once you get his suggestion.

I suspect the advice will be to skip the mini's, get the BK-LFE's and Dayton Exciters, specifically these and attach them to your seat. I am not sure what he will recommend to drive them with. Any of the last 500 or so posts should explain why the Exciter / BK-LFE combo will be suggested.

There were some isolation posts previously - I want to say between pages 80-105ish - but that's just going off a gut memory. Key point - there are some very detailed posts if you scan back.

As for BK-LFE's - deals can be had. You just have to be patient if you want to find them -- and get a little lucky. You may find a suggestion to forgo looking for 4 BK-LFE's and look for 2 LFE and 2 TST-439's (maybe gold or platinum) if I remember correctly. That is the "dual role" concept he mentions. I don't even have my big stuff hooked up yet - but quick testing on a lower end TST that I stumbled across a great deal on shows amazing response in the higher end (still under 200 hz).

I think the premo starter solution today is something similar to:
2 BK-LFE in stereo attached to the seat bottom.
4-8 Dayton Exciters over 2-4 channels spread out over your seat back.

Then you start looking at the pedal plate (I want to say a single BK-LFE unless you separate your pedals and pedal plate) and updating the seat with the TST's for dual role.

That said -- Even cheaper solutions add a huge level!!! But, you indicated you have $1500 to play with - so I would suggest less toys, but better ones! Looking forward to seeing what you end up building out, and what Mr Latte suggests for a blank slate and $1500 bucks.

Thank you, Bassun! I appreciate the reply. It's been awesome seeing your posts as well. Thank you for taking the time to give me and so many others guidance. I'm with you on the idea of getting less toys, but better ones and upgrading over time as I learn more and can experiment.

Thank you for the clarification on the Amp. I am still learning so much and didn't catch that I would need that extra power. Makes perfect sense and changes how I need to approach this.

I did see those posts on the exciter / lfe combo, but thought it may be preferable to get shakers first and then add exciters for that extra detail in the mid range. I've been reading so much that I get lost, but I will review again and look for what you're describing. I'm open to anything since I plan on investing more over time and just want a great starting point.

Thanks also for narrowing my range on isolation posts. I really think that most posts I see tend to underestimate that aspect so I really want to make sure I get it right from the start.

For now, I'm going to keep my eye out for LFEs for as long as I can till I can't take it and pay full price! Hopefully they start popping up soon!

bassun · Mar 10, 2020

Lol I hear ya! I will be candid here, if you are looking to go the best of the best route, which it sounds like that's exactly what you are after and are willing to put the money into doing it right from the start-- Listen carefully to Mr Latte. We do not always agree on everything - BUT - when it comes to doing it, and doing it right - he is the resource.

And even I have shifted my build towards his suggestions. Given, it is NOT a cheap solution - nor the only one that gives decent tactile. But - there's little doubt it gives some of the best. I had intended on staying cheap, but happened across some good deals on bigger tactile (they can be had, if you are patient and watchful) so I'm shifting over to a more robust setup. Nothing compared to his, mind you, but much more than I intended lol. I've got more tied up in tactile than the entire rest of my rig now (minus the PC/Rift).

Brutal Deluxe · Mar 10, 2020

I blame you lot!

I came here with a couple of cheap Aura transducers and after a few weeks and a few briefs posts... I've just ordered an NX3000D and a BK LFE (big boi) Both are 2nd hand from 2 seperate sellers and both are boxed and look like new, hopefully they'll be as good as they're described.

Current Plan

Seat back - 4x Dayton 40w exciters (2x shoulders & 2x kidneys). Already wired up and running off cheap nobsound and Fosi amps.

Seat base - 1x BK LFE running off NX3000D

Pedals - 2x Aura 50w transducers running in stereo off cheap Fosi amp.

Testing

So far I only have the 4 exciters on the seat back wired up. I've started to experiment with Simhub and am excited about the potential that the effects can bring, especially when I can start playing with a larger range of frequencies and applying them to different parts of the rig.

Already impressed with rpm effects, gear shifts and rumble strip effects. I guess these are the easier ones to setup effectively and instantly impress new comers to tactile... like me.

I've tried using game audio through the exciters placed on the seat shoulders. It seemed like it has more potential than I expected. Unfortunately I had limitations of reducing the higher frequencies so they were making a lot of audible noise (basically acting like speakers as well as vibrating). I've tried to use "APO Equaliser" to amend this but then realised that by using EQ software, I'm unable to also use the same channel for my actual surround sound audio. To work around this, I considered using a simple 3.5mm Jack splitter and have it going to my rear surround sound as usual and also the amp for the shakers via this. It should work but can anyone confirm? It's something I would like to revisit at a later date.

Build

So, I need to wait for the NX3000D and BK LFE to arrive. I can then work out what cables I need and how to get everything mounted. I'll then be able to start having fun with the Simhub effects.

Thanks for all of the inspiration and advice on here. Not concerned about feeding my family anymore and looking forward to joining the 5hz club!

bassun · Mar 11, 2020

lol Brutal -- I may know the amp you are referring to. I missed the end bidding while hiking with the dog. Left the phone in the house. If so, you DID get a good deal so long as it is as described lol.

boern69 · Mar 11, 2020

I wanna order 2-4 of this
Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4

and mount them to another seat are they ok ? / can I use those for seat mounting ?
@ mr . latte

Mr Latte · Mar 11, 2020

BuboBubo said:
Thank you, Bassun! I appreciate the reply. It's been awesome seeing your posts as well. Thank you for taking the time to give me and so many others guidance. I'm with you on the idea of getting less toys, but better ones and upgrading over time as I learn more and can experiment.

Thank you for the clarification on the Amp. I am still learning so much and didn't catch that I would need that extra power. Makes perfect sense and changes how I need to approach this.

I did see those posts on the exciter / lfe combo, but thought it may be preferable to get shakers first and then add exciters for that extra detail in the mid range. I've been reading so much that I get lost, but I will review again and look for what you're describing. I'm open to anything since I plan on investing more over time and just want a great starting point.

Thanks also for narrowing my range on isolation posts. I really think that most posts I see tend to underestimate that aspect so I really want to make sure I get it right from the start.

For now, I'm going to keep my eye out for LFEs for as long as I can till I can't take it and pay full price! Hopefully they start popping up soon!

Its hard keeping up with what several people are doing and trying to respond to each. I am getting burnt out with this, work and still progressing with my own build. Within the thread is plenty of information or advice.

I have said on more than one occasion what I believe is the best approach to the best tactile immersion.
This is based on tests and experience, not just ideas...

It seems impossible to get someone just willing to say okay tell me what to get and how to install it and that person in a thread of their own build puts trust in that, not their own ideas or solutions they are not sure about. To then have a person share with people the experience this "trusted method" brings.

Often people ask for advice on how to approach something or install tactile. Then they still do something different anyway. Its like they want help but then still want to do what they want or think anyways.

In that scenario (the right hardware installed in a good way) I can send the person effects that I already have spent thousands of hours working towards in seeking to have high-quality optimal effects for the proven and chosen hardware. The idea is to get this recommended hardware and then work with others on what they enjoy in effects, offering variations in effects and for different user preferences or types of effects.

Some of these effects I have, will blow people away in their sensations/immersion. Especially those, that are new into tactile or just have experienced smaller/budget options. The effects and how we use both low/higher bass frequencies is a vital ingredient/ So understanding frequencies better is very relevant to sensations we generate for specific effects roles. I keep learning and finding improvements in effects creation but who do I find that also enjoys that, wants to share/swap ideas or attempts at making such effects to really extract the best out of this best hardware

Whos doing it?
Whos interested?

Im for spending much less time on the forums to focus on my own build as it is finally getting to a point to get the next part accomplished.

Look forward to others getting into the "BIG BOYS" hardware and have your own plays around with them, see what you guys come up with in effects and then share/compare what some of my own offer.

To people tempted to get into all this, to the higher level....

Note what I say about being able to achieve the 1-200Hz range. This should be an early target for anyone wanting the get the best immersion

As we are now, with what Simhub introduced. The best approach is not placing units on corners but in delivering the tactile best into the user, additional body-zones improve this immensely. I am not going into it all again, the info is here, the recommendations are here, the hardware even my own build is going to use is here.

As stated before....

One major factor and limitation with tactile is how we can go beyond the limitations of overloading a transducer with too many effect layers. "Dual Role" and "Multi Exciters" both accomplish this to not only let a person enjoy better more effects operating at once as they are using less effects per unit. If we distribute these to different body regions then we also have greater options in how we will feel individual effects.

I have also experimented with engine effects that go beyond the normal approach. If a user's interest is more with RPM/Speed emphasis then just think what we can do with 8 channels and how we use different aspects in the RPM/SPEED to use those channels compared to the traditional method of the same stuff output to maybe 2-4 units on most peoples seat/pedals.

We should have engines that have real character, power, zing in rpm range and speed sensations that bring strong sense of depth and excitement across slow speeds and deceleration as well as intense acceleration and feeling engine strain at max speeds. I know I have accomplished this in effects already but still I seek to push and improve them in how we can alter that felt character with different cars.

This "concept/idea" I share is about the specific factors that no other tactile software/hardware solution has in my view or experience yet properly achieved. A large part of it is in the effects creation, experimentation with multiple channels and applying how the software/hardware is used to suit the user's preferences to bring much more immersion than any other solution before has achieved.

Primary Tactile Goals:

1-200Hz full bass range extraction and utilisation
Creating unique multi-channel based effects
Apply effects via multiple bodyzone regions
Using good isolation to maintain the energy within the seat/pedal regions
Improved control of stereo effects
Vibration and sound deadening (optional based on users requirements)

Mr Latte · Mar 11, 2020

boern69 said:
I wanna order 2-4 of this
Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4

and mount them to another seat are they ok ? / can I use those for seat mounting ?
@ mr . latte

Ask yourself why the tested/recommended and preferred model is not what you're considering to buy or why this would be better? Do feel free to buy the one linked (yes it uses VHB to stick on) and compare them to determine for yourself and share with others here your own findings.

It's upto people to buy what they want if they don't like or want the recommendations...

bassun · Mar 11, 2020

boern69 said:
I wanna order 2-4 of this
Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4

and mount them to another seat are they ok ? / can I use those for seat mounting ?
@ mr . latte

Ok, I am not Mr Latte - hence I waited until he replied. Here is my opinion on those.

Nope - don't get them.

Why? Because I tested these: DAEX30HESF-4

And, they do not lend well to tactile. I wanted them for the additional mounting "power" with the screws for my specific install, as well as some of the additional specs. There's only one problem --- they are designed to screw to a solid object, and hang a sound board off of them with the 3M. Great for sound! But, not for tactile. You would end up sticking these to your seat and the cone would move the body of the unit. Sure you would feel stuff, but you would be losing the power from the unit because it would be doing the opposite, basically, of what it was designed to do. I also suspect the cone would wear quickly used in that manner. You cannot mount and sticky them to the same object. The cone would never move. If you want, I can post some close up pics of them so you can better see, but that's the problem. They are not designed to be mounted to only one object. They are designed to be mounted to two.

You probably got a little bit of a short response from Mr Latte because we had this exact convo a few weeks back. I ended up buying his suggestion, and the HESF to test. The HESF DO have more power - surprisingly they have a lot of power for their size and rating. But they just do not lend well for tactile use.

This Dayton is what you want.
It's the Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm and cost's a whopping $16USD.

They too are surprisingly spry for their size and wattage! But the key...they work for tactile.

bassun · Mar 11, 2020

Kind of off subject here but if anyone is looking for some isolators: ButtKicker RDB kinetic Isolator with bolts

There is a great deal on ebay at the moment. I can vouch for the seller as a fantastic ebayer. Those should be barely used and at a GREAT price. (8.49 USD for 4 or more!) I don't have any use, or I would have picked them up. I've bought from him personally, and got a great deal on my stuff - so I figured I would pass it forward to you guys.

BuboBubo · Mar 11, 2020

Mr Latte said:
Its hard keeping up with what several people are doing and trying to respond to each. I am getting burnt out with this, work and still progressing with my own build. Within the thread is plenty of information or advice.

I have said on more than one occasion what I believe is the best approach to the best tactile immersion.
This is based on tests and experience, not just ideas...

It seems impossible to get someone just willing to say okay tell me what to get and how to install it and that person in a thread of their own build puts trust in that, not their own ideas or solutions they are not sure about. To then have a person share with people the experience this "trusted method" brings.

Often people ask for advice on how to approach something or install tactile. Then they still do something different anyway. Its like they want help but then still want to do what they want or think anyways.

In that scenario (the right hardware installed in a good way) I can send the person effects that I already have spent thousands of hours working towards in seeking to have high-quality optimal effects for the proven and chosen hardware. The idea is to get this recommended hardware and then work with others on what they enjoy in effects, offering variations in effects and for different user preferences or types of effects.

Some of these effects I have, will blow people away in their sensations/immersion. Especially those, that are new into tactile or just have experienced smaller/budget options. The effects and how we use both low/higher bass frequencies is a vital ingredient/ So understanding frequencies better is very relevant to sensations we generate for specific effects roles. I keep learning and finding improvements in effects creation but who do I find that also enjoys that, wants to share/swap ideas or attempts at making such effects to really extract the best out of this best hardware

Whos doing it?
Whos interested?

Im for spending much less time on the forums to focus on my own build as it is finally getting to a point to get the next part accomplished.

Look forward to others getting into the "BIG BOYS" hardware and have your own plays around with them, see what you guys come up with in effects and then share/compare what some of my own offer.

To people tempted to get into all this, to the higher level....

Note what I say about being able to achieve the 1-200Hz range. This should be an early target for anyone wanting the get the best immersion

As we are now, with what Simhub introduced. The best approach is not placing units on corners but in delivering the tactile best into the user, additional body-zones improve this immensely. I am not going into it all again, the info is here, the recommendations are here, the hardware even my own build is going to use is here.

As stated before....

One major factor and limitation with tactile is how we can go beyond the limitations of overloading a transducer with too many effect layers. "Dual Role" and "Multi Exciters" both accomplish this to not only let a person enjoy better more effects operating at once as they are using less effects per unit. If we distribute these to different body regions then we also have greater options in how we will feel individual effects.

I have also experimented with engine effects that go beyond the normal approach. If a user's interest is more with RPM/Speed emphasis then just think what we can do with 8 channels and how we use different aspects in the RPM/SPEED to use those channels compared to the traditional method of the same stuff output to maybe 2-4 units on most peoples seat/pedals.

We should have engines that have real character, power, zing in rpm range and speed sensations that bring strong sense of depth and excitement across slow speeds and deceleration as well as intense acceleration and feeling engine strain at max speeds. I know I have accomplished this in effects already but still I seek to push and improve them in how we can alter that felt character with different cars.

This "concept/idea" I share is about the specific factors that no other tactile software/hardware solution has in my view or experience yet properly achieved. A large part of it is in the effects creation, experimentation with multiple channels and applying how the software/hardware is used to suit the user's preferences to bring much more immersion than any other solution before has achieved.

Primary Tactile Goals:

1-200Hz full bass range extraction and utilisation

Creating unique multi-channel based effects

Apply effects via multiple bodyzone regions

Using good isolation to maintain the energy within the seat/pedal regions

Improved control of stereo effects

Vibration and sound deadening (optional based on users requirements)

Thanks, Mr. Latte. I want to focus on one part of your message...

You say "It seems impossible to get someone just willing to say okay tell me what to get and how to install it and that person in a thread of their own build puts trust in that, not their own ideas or solutions they are not sure about. To then have a person share with people the experience this "trusted method" brings.

Often people ask for advice on how to approach something or install tactile. Then they still do something different anyway. Its like they want help but then still want to do what they want or think anyways."

I am specifically asking you what to get and how to install it and want to 100% listen. I have read through a ton of this thread trying to find you giving a flat out recommendation, but almost every one of your posts has only one or two pieces of the knowledge necessary. I'm having trouble parsing it all together and posted in the first place hoping to get clarity.

To be clear, I want to take your knowledge and apply it directly to my rig. I don't want to do my own thing, I want to follow you. Maybe as I do that I learn enough to make a change and share with you where I'm coming from, but I doubt even that for quite some time. I want to do things with the right hardware installed in the right way so you can send me your effects. My hope is once I experience that and start to truly understand it, I can also experiment and grow, but it feels hard to even start.

Anything in my post that gave you the impression I wanted to do my own thing is just me not understanding all your posts. I may be the only one, but this stuff is seems really complex to me and I'm just trying to understand it all. Hell, I'd love for you to give me a list of what to buy so I can get started in a way to be on the right path.

Back to that part of your comment I pulled out.. I will go back and read more of your posts and see if I can really understand your thoughts on the best approach to the best tactile immersion. I was trying to do that before making this post, but just couldn't piece it all together. I'll try again focusing on the primary tactile goals you listed at the end. Hopefully my next post will get a nod from you and convince that I'm trying to learn from you so I can follow in your footsteps, not brush off your work and do my own thing anyways.

bassun · Mar 11, 2020

This could be an interesting post. A flat out, here's what to buy - in this order.

Phase 1: Shakers A, placed here and here, with amps Z
Phase 2: Shakers B, placed here and here, with amps Y

I have an idea of how it will start, but curious as to what completes the list.

Mr Latte · Mar 11, 2020

@BuboBubo
There was nothing in your post to give me that impression. It's often what has happened with others and you still see happening with people not buying the tried/tested hardware but seeking something else they may think is better.

I spent quite a bit of money on hardware to put me in a position to be able to share or make such recommendations. I have a box full of stuff that was bought for testing and comparisons. It is a complex topic and the point of the recommended hardware and installation method shared is to ensure someone buying into gets brilliant results based on many, many hours of testing already put in.

Some people have already bought into the exciters, even went with the same amp in the EPQ304 for the exciters. Yet I do not know yet who has already installed both the exciters and large BK. I've lost track of what everyone has and also trying to deal with peoples PMs.

A few have went with the exciters but then are not using the proper type of seat, so I cant be sure what they will feel will match what the recommended/tested approach offers. Having DSP offering Crossover and EQ controls is vital with this level of hardware and to get the most out of it but also to be able to tune it for the users own preferences. Parametric EQ (PEQ) lets us target specific frequencies.

The effects play a large part in the immersion too. That is something I think I have become quite good with. So the effects I spend a lot of time on, I want to be able to share them with people using the same hardware as then I know what I feel is close to what they will feel.

The original idea was to have a thread then dedicated to looking closely at every effect and every setting. To then go over effects one by one discussing with others what they like or don't like and sharing different ideas from users own effect settings.

This can be done on two levels, firstly for people that are budget limited and start only with the exciters, then working towards owning perhaps 4-6 exciters for the back of the seat. With that we then have a fixed hardware platform to work from offering the multichannel/bodyzone experience that effects experimentation is being done with.

Adding the large BK then opens another door to work on specific effect layers that let these combine with what the exciters do. This is how my own effects creation has been tackling things differently. As typically people have different makes/models of tactile and they send each similar effects or each unit is working on its own. With my own approach, we have the BK/Exciters from the very effects level operate with frequencies that each performs best with, then they combine in the seat to bring a richer experience, not the restricted operating performance of a single unit regardless of its brand/type.

Dual Role (Combining a TST & BK) is not really part of the concept but it can be applied as my own rig will use it. Its costly but yes brings its own improvements or benefits.

I will come back later with a recommendation on what to buy but generally its going to be getting a combination of the exciters and the BK Concert or BK LFE. Having 6x Exciters and dual large BK with the amps would take you over budget.

So it may be worth getting the exciters and the amps for them and starting with only 1 large BK?
Can you shop around for best deals on

Behringer NX3000D
Behringer EPQ 304

Update:
Here is an example:

*This still requires interconnets,cables and recommended fan mods.
It will have 2 free channels on the second EPQ304 for additional exciters (7/8)
You could buy other amps that are cheaper for the exciters but this may then require 3 stereo amps.
The Nobsound options have been looked at as well. So feel free to discuss your thoughts and onwers of the exciters with Nobsounds may be able to comment or help.

If you are interested then yes I would like to see someone just follow what to do/how to install and they share this in its own thread. Raising any issues as well as giving people feedback on it all. Basically its me helping you spend your money more wisely based on solutions I know should perform to a high level.

boern69 · Mar 12, 2020

Thx mr latte and bassun

yes i prefer those u recommend but dont find them for order in europe /germany

and I fear thex get singinficant expensive ...

Anybody ordered on parts express to europe here ?

AJ McDaddy · Mar 12, 2020

This has probably been asked before, but this thread is 110 pages long and I'm a NOOB to this as I'm converting from a GameTrix Jetseat - sorry if it's a repeat question.

I have a spare 5.1 home theater amp and a couple of spare bass pumps and an Rseat RS1. I'm looking to mount both pumps on the seat area and get another for the pedals. So raises the following questions:

- Where is it best to locate the bass pumps, on the seat or against the frame?
- If on the seat, where - underneath or back?
- Will 1 bass pump be ok on the pedals or do I need 2 (left and right)?

Anyone have any experience of or can provide guidance for mounting non-Butkkicker transducers on an Rseat either with or without the Buttkicker mount?

Chrhun · Mar 12, 2020

boern69 said:
Thx mr latte and bassun

yes i prefer those u recommend but dont find them for order in europe /germany

and I fear thex get singinficant expensive ...

Anybody ordered on parts express to europe here ?

This is the first link that comes up googling these units: https://www.soundimports.eu/en/daex...8_DwTkFkfhnFc4AB_z16d4IOcV9nLWMAaAqGAEALw_wcB

I ordered mine from there and it was delivered within Europe just in a few days. I think the store is based in the Netherlands.

boern69 · Mar 13, 2020

Chrhun said:
This is the first link that comes up googling these units: https://www.soundimports.eu/en/daex...8_DwTkFkfhnFc4AB_z16d4IOcV9nLWMAaAqGAEALw_wcB

I ordered mine from there and it was delivered within Europe just in a few days. I think the store is based in the Netherlands.

THx Buddy
I will order these.
U made my day!

Chrhun · Mar 13, 2020

boern69 said:
THx Buddy
I will order these.
U made my day!

No problem at all. I had an issue with one exciter and their warranty service was also top notch.

I've been very happy with my four exciter solution. I thought of adding bass shakers, but instead went with a seat mover. It will be interesting to set the seat mover and the exciters working together.