Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[bassun]

Good info Mr Latte -- I may have skimped on the fact that its going to be 3 BK-LFE's (maybe eventually 4) that was part of my thinking with the DSP. 120 more - times two... for 240 vs the 150 for the Dayton DSP 408. *going the NX-3000 vs NX-3000D route.

Normally I am fine blazing trails -- but when it's high end, and someone has experience, I would rather get feedback. I think, from our previous conversations (and your other posts), that DSP is definitely warrented for dialing in the BK-LFE's. I also think you were pleased with the options the Dayton 408 had. I'm not concerned with profiles at all. 99% chance I would not use them, ever - but if the "tunability" of the 408 is lacking - that would definitely make me consider. Tuning beyond the powers of either set of DSP controls is probably not likely for me either, so I think for me it's either on board DSP, external DSP, or suck it up with no DSP (which I do not like that idea in the long run). Ultimately, I could probably save over $200 if I do the NX4-6000 and 408. Money is only money, but 200 bucks is 200 bucks...

That all said, I am significantly leaning towards following RCHeli's lead and doing the NX4 -- but if the 408 WILL be a problem vs built in DSP - I will at least take that under strong advisement. Regardless, thanks for the insight and again for all of the time and effort you have spent.

 

[bassun]

Gnoshme -- LOVE THE INFO! I'm 100% a fan of the cheaper solutions and love seeing you pushing the envelope with the boards. I wish I could add more than I have, but - I'm out of info...

 

[Mr Latte]

Good info Mr Latte -- I may have skimped on the fact that its going to be 3 BK-LFE's (maybe eventually 4) that was part of my thinking with the DSP. 120 more - times two... for 240 vs the 150 for the Dayton DSP 408. *going the NX-3000 vs NX-3000D route.

Normally I am fine blazing trails -- but when it's high end, and someone has experience, I would rather get feedback. I think, from our previous conversations (and your other posts), that DSP is definitely warrented for dialing in the BK-LFE's. I also think you were pleased with the options the Dayton 408 had. I'm not concerned with profiles at all. 99% chance I would not use them, ever - but if the "tunability" of the 408 is lacking - that would definitely make me consider. Tuning beyond the powers of either set of DSP controls is probably not likely for me either, so I think for me it's either on board DSP, external DSP, or suck it up with no DSP (which I do not like that idea in the long run). Ultimately, I could probably save over $200 if I do the NX4-6000 and 408. Money is only money, but 200 bucks is 200 bucks...

That all said, I am significantly leaning towards following RCHeli's lead and doing the NX4 -- but if the 408 WILL be a problem vs built in DSP - I will at least take that under strong advisement. Regardless, thanks for the insight and again for all of the time and effort you have spent.

What you would find with using potentially different profiles is that one profile could have the units hitting harder with the very lowest Hz yet have the BK unit operate under a lower range. With some sims or cars you may want to compare that with slightly less emphasis on the lowest Hz but then have the unit operate more withing a higher range.

I can't tell you what you may prefer, but I am telling you these are general benefits to have the ability to set varations in how the unit operates than not to have them. Having the ability to not just be able to set a lowpass filter but to also be able to control its slope brings nice control options.

You cannot add 2-4x the bass energy to these lowest frequencies just by turning up the volume, without issues. As the volume controls all the frequencies and what happens is the common peak frequencies then become much to strong and will cause piston pang. So to control bass properly you need specific frequency control.

Here is an example of two extremes and we have more slope options with the amps DSP than the Dayton DSP option enables.




Compare these and its easy to see while quite extreme output gain is being applied (12dB) they are very different in how the unit will respond and feel over the frequency range.

The +12dB slope is an example of using filtering to really boost the low Hz. If in this case the 30-50Hz is being driven too high then we can control that via PEQ to reduce those typically strong frequencies while maintaining the slope for the 2-4x additional energy for the lowest frequencies and doing so with the volume not being a problem or major piston pang issues. That is a major bonus as is being able to reduce/remove resonating frequencies from an installation you cant do on the 4 channel model and its basic crossover switching.

Its your call what you buy and chose to take as good advice or ignore....

 

[DougRS]

That depends on your

A) Initial budget and installation requirements regards vibrations or noise
B) Preferences for possible effects you may want as priority
C) If stereo effects are a priority or focus more on front/back with mono

approx £1000 ish although not a limit
I’m on an sfx100 so best to suit that. I’m after as much directional feel I think. It’s hard to say without knowing what is possible

 

[Elaphe]

Yesterday I screwed my 4 BS301 to my fiber bucket seat. The vibration is good. However, I sometimes can hear a short, loud and annoying some, like something crackling. I've tried loosing the screws, but the problem persist. If I lower the volume, the noise is gone. I think I've had similar issues with shakers on my old seat and the problem dissapeared eventually. Could it be the fiber? Should the surface of the shakers be in direct contact with the fiber or should I put some kind of pad in between?

 

[bassun]

What you would find with using potentially different profiles is that one profile could have the units hitting harder with the very lowest Hz yet have the BK unit operate under a lower range. With some sims or cars you may want to compare that with slightly less emphasis on the lowest Hz but then have the unit operate more withing a higher range.

I can't tell you what you may prefer, but I am telling you these are general benefits to have the ability to set varations in how the unit operates than not to have them. Having the ability to not just be able to set a lowpass filter but to also be able to control its slope brings nice control options.

You cannot add 2-4x the bass energy to these lowest frequencies just by turning up the volume, without issues. As the volume controls all the frequencies and what happens is the common peak frequencies then become much to strong and will cause piston pang. So to control bass properly you need specific frequency control.

Here is an example of two extremes and we have more slope options with the amps DSP than the Dayton DSP option enables.




Compare these and its easy to see while quite extreme output gain is being applied (12dB) they are very different in how the unit will respond and feel over the frequency range.

The +12dB slope is an example of using filtering to really boost the low Hz. If in this case the 30-50Hz is being driven too high then we can control that via PEQ to reduce those typically strong frequencies while maintaining the slope for the 2-4x additional energy for the lowest frequencies and doing so with the volume not being a problem or major piston pang issues. That is a major bonus as is being able to reduce/remove resonating frequencies from an installation you cant do on the 4 channel model and its basic crossover switching.

Its your call what you buy and chose to take as good advice or ignore....

Well crud. I was really hoping that the profiles were the key candidate for going internal DSP over the 408. Thanks once again for the detailed breakdown. Maybe I'll go NX3000D x 1 - and only run two BK's for now. IDK...much food for thought. It really doesn't make sense to have these guys and not get the most out of them... The concept of boosting happy frequencies does make sense.

A good example of where I think that may be handy is with iRacing specifically (mostly because that's all I've been playing lately, lol) -- but comparing the Street Stock w/ the Miata. The SS is loud and obnoxious (depending on what you have shaking obviously) compared to the much subdued feedback from the MX5. I'd like more from the MX5 and honestly I had to change my profile settings in Simhub to tone down the SS. Even basically wide open I'd like a little more for the MX5... bouncing profiles in amp sounds like a possible solution.

Course that said -- I have not heard either through the tones of a BK-LFE so I may have other thoughts once I get them up and running. On a different note - holy heck the 209 is much larger than I was expecting lol. My mounting ideas for testing mostly got squished and it's back to the drawing board lol. I do absolutely love the idea of one bolt to mount -- just need to find the best solution. At this point I almost wish that my wife had not been awesome and got me the GT Omega and instead I had built out an 80/20 lol.


Now the crux of it all is that even with my cheap setup, I LOVE IT! OMG I LOVE IT! What it add's 100% changes the game. I've not tuned things with great precision yet, I've not got the greatest gear, but by golly it sure as heck add's to the enjoyment! I turned everything off last night, and ran a lap with out it to see how it felt...it was like going back from a wheel to a controller. Yeah the car still went around the track --- but it was not the same...at all. And that's with NO BK-LFE's driving the lower ranges yet.

 

[Alvaro de la Orden]

Yesterday I screwed my 4 BS301 to my fiber bucket seat. The vibration is good. However, I sometimes can hear a short, loud and annoying some, like something crackling. I've tried loosing the screws, but the problem persist. If I lower the volume, the noise is gone. I think I've had similar issues with shakers on my old seat and the problem dissapeared eventually. Could it be the fiber? Should the surface of the shakers be in direct contact with the fiber or should I put some kind of pad in between?

I think any type of pad or material between a shaker and a seat, would kind of deny its purpose of transmitting vibrations, no??
I have mine attached with the default adhesive, or v3M tape in those which have been repositioned several times and former adhesive grips no more.

 

[Michael Roitman]

Hi Guys! I just posted in another thread but maybe someone here knows the answer to this.

If anyone here uses 2 Buttkicker Gamer2's or similar with 2 buttkicker amps (BKA-130-C models), how did you connect it to your PC and how did you split it front/rear? I used the red/black RCA jack to 3.5mm audi jack, and put 1 red in 1 amp's INPUT RCA port, and the the other side (black RCA), into the INPUT on the 2nd amp, and then the other end's audio jack into my sound card's "front" audio jack, but I'm having issues with the 2nd one sometimes not sending sound even though it worked before.

 

[gnoshme]

Anyone looked into the potential health issues of long term or long session driving with tactile?

 

[bassun]

Anyone looked into the potential health issues of long term or long session driving with tactile?

Lol, I have not -- but I swear it felt like my insides were still shaking last night. I raced for about 2.5 hours strait and went directly to bed, and I just kept feeling like my guts were vibrating. If you have ever had your sugar drop, it felt like that but at about half the intensity.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Anyone looked into the potential health issues of long term or long session driving with tactile?

Vibration disease - PubMed

Today, in this age of technology, vibration caused by machinery is an almost universal hazard. Vibration transferred from a machine to the human body may cause discomfort, a reduction of performance, and even injury. Vibratory manual tools may cause damage to the circulatory system of the upper...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[bassun]

Vibration disease - PubMed

Today, in this age of technology, vibration caused by machinery is an almost universal hazard. Vibration transferred from a machine to the human body may cause discomfort, a reduction of performance, and even injury. Vibratory manual tools may cause damage to the circulatory system of the upper...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Well dang... that's no bueno. My mother, incidentally, had Raynaud's Syndrom. Never associated it with vibration before.

 

[Elaphe]

Can anyone explain the differences between road impacts, road rumble and road vibration in Simhub? I've read these are most important effects and also that it's a good idea to have a low number of effects activated. However, I've been trying and cannot notice what is the difference between them. Basically, I want to feel when my car goes over holes or bumps on the road, steps on kerbs or when it crashes against a wall, for instance.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

If a guy can operate a pneumatic drill for most of his lifetime without any unwanted side effects, then I'm not going to worry myself too much about this. What most people here are aiming for, is to replicate the vibrations felt when driving a real car (though some feedback might be exaggerated). So hopefully any ill affects aren't any more dangerous than actual driving?

I've got Raynaud's disease and it's manageable as long I can avoid the cold. I don't particularly go out much over winter because of it... it's a good excuse to stay indoors and do some racing

 

[bassun]

Just curious if you were diagnosed before or after running the drill for years? Never before heard there was cause and effect with Raynaud's. As for the cold, yeah - it was kind of crazy - it would just be cool, like 50's and 60's and at times mom's fingers would basically turn blue. She also ran into infection issues in her fingers, so be careful.

 

[bassun]

Can anyone explain the differences between road impacts, road rumble and road vibration in Simhub? I've read these are most important effects and also that it's a good idea to have a low number of effects activated. However, I've been trying and cannot notice what is the difference between them. Basically, I want to feel when my car goes over holes or bumps on the road, steps on kerbs or when it crashes against a wall, for instance.

There is a little description which give's you a clue of what they do. My opinion is to read that then test them all three on track and see what and how things feel. Everyone's setup will feel different - so for me to say you want to run "Impacts" and "road rumble" to feel bumps and curbs may be accurate - but it may not represent what you want to feel necessarily. Your setup may be perfect for mixing different feeds, or it may really muddle the feedback. Run a couple laps with each of them on individually, then once you see how they feel individually, and what makes them respond, you can tune them to whatever frequencies work best on your rig. Then you can begin mixing multiple effects together to get "all" of the feedback you like and your rig does well at representing. You may want to try the simulated road texture too, depending on what all you are trying to achieve.

 

[Mr Latte]

On the contrary to health issues, "vibrations" have supposed benefits for circulation, muscle pain and fitness/well-being
An example

This however is quite funny

 

[bassun]

Seems like a good addition to a seat. Just need to figure out how to control things, lol.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

As if everything, moderation is the key.
Pretty extensive research paper on vibration associated health effects.

https://www.who.int/occupational_health/pwh_guidance_no.10_teaching_materials.pdf

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Just curious if you were diagnosed before or after running the drill for years? Never before heard there was cause and effect with Raynaud's. As for the cold, yeah - it was kind of crazy - it would just be cool, like 50's and 60's and at times mom's fingers would basically turn blue. She also ran into infection issues in her fingers, so be careful.

Ha, the pneumatic drill was just an example and thankfully not my line of work. I was diagnosed with Raynauds over 20 years ago when I was in my teens. Unfortunately it has got worse the last few years. My fingers and toes will often turn white and numb when there's a cold spell. The issue is usually a couple of days later when they swell because of temporary nerve damage (that's my understanding of the cause anyway). It's just best to avoid the cold and thankfully it hasn't caused any infections. Good luck to your mum, I hope she's managing it OK.

Anyway... don't want to turn this thread in to a therapy session. Had my transducers and amps arrive today. Hoping to find time over the weekend to start getting them setup.