Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[bassun]

I would hold out and seek a bargain on ebay for a LFE or Concert.
The BK Advance is pretty good too, if one can be found at a nice price, however its still quite a bit short to what the biggest units can achieve.

Find a way, make it happen!

LOL, I had decided to forgo trying the 209 --- then as irony would have it, too good of a deal to not play with one happened... On a good note, I guess I can contrast and compare the 209 vs the Aura B2's. The LFE is absolutely on the list - just have to find a great deal since my little amp's cannot handle them. The other side, is I really do have to watch power draw. One circuit is doing it all, and that's got limited amperage available.

 

[bassun]

I will buy one of these and do some comparison testing. On paper it's solid in that it's got 2xTP3116 chips so in terms of frequency response it should do well. I'll hold out for results, but I imagine this will end up on my list as a solid "easy to use and great bang for the buck", but won't be able to knock my current favorite off the top spot in terms of "will run hard all day long without overheating the shaker or amp".

Yeah, I was actually surprised by how well they did. Again, for sub 100 watt solutions. I think the key is powering them. More power = more output capacity = more heat. I found running the gain at 24 with 20.4v available they got very warm. They did not thermal or anything, but was warmer than I liked. I have a small 7inch fan that I ran on me - I just turned it on them and it cooled them amazingly!

I'm certainly interested to see what you find! I too suspect when it comes to putting them up against high end gear, they fall short. But - $ for $ - I'm happy.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I mean to still install the units hanging underneath the plate but the surface of the plate facing the underneath the seat to use materials to fill this gap a little for direct energy also to go into the bottom of the seat. Keep enough distance of them apart, the idea is to help improve the stereo effect but only testing will determine if its a success.



It probably is more needed for piston based units. I suppose if you ever intented to potentially upgrade then you could have the holes pre/drilled to suit or just modify at a later time if needed.



These should help boost the detail and let you specifically place effects.
For under the knees they could help highlight small bumps, tyre/surface feel and wheel-slip.
The beauty is you have options to place whatever effects you want to them and testing will determine what you like. I just personally think it might add to the immersion as having additional channels always gives you more possibilities. You may even want to use them for mono based effect like high rpm detailing.

Ah, yes the transducers will be mounted with the contact plate facing upwards anyway (I didn't really clarify this on my first post). I can adjust the gap between them and the seat fairly easily so will see what difference it makes with them making contact with the seat as you've suggested.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions. I'll get the brackets made up, run with my plan, do some testing and report back.

 

[F1Aussie]

Any of you guys that use isolators have them on a simlab P1? If so how do you mount them under the seat as they have a right angle type bracket?

 

[Mr Latte]

LOL, I had decided to forgo trying the 209 --- then as irony would have it, too good of a deal to not play with one happened... On a good note, I guess I can contrast and compare the 209 vs the Aura B2's. The LFE is absolutely on the list - just have to find a great deal since my little amp's cannot handle them. The other side, is I really do have to watch power draw. One circuit is doing it all, and that's got limited amperage available.

Your likely gonna feel the main or primary benefit is improved sensations above 60Hz.

Several effects benefit from this but when I looked into what the main benefits are with a TST209.
Before we had Shakeit bringing what it has with channel possibilities. The TST were ideal for enhancing some effects like RPM, also good with "Game Audio Tactile" if controlled and they can work really well when combined with a large BK unit.

With new possibilities and discoveries and with what we can do now. I would say we can outperform what a TST will bring in mid-high detailing if instead of going with the multiple affordable exciters that are directed to specific body zones and those being boosted by at least a single large BK unit.

Its good to experiment and test and expect you to find a good use for it somehow or somewhere for the rig.

 

[F1Aussie]

Just had my first race with chassis mode after upgrading from one shaker under the seat and one under the pedals to two under each so I can run chassis mode. I must say I was absolutely blown away by the difference between extension mode and chassis mode. I definitely need some isolators, every two laps I had to keep moving my mouse so it did not fall off the mouse pad, lol.

 

[gnoshme]

I tested the Nobsound NS-20G today, specifically this one.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K9FVBHS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I would say it is fine with smaller shakers / exciters, but isn't able to drive AuraSound AST-2B/4s to levels that they are happy to deliver. In terms of frequency response, no surprises.. it's a TP3116 chip based unit and all pretty solid although falls off at the lower end before some of the other amps I've tried.

To put it in context, I have my current setup going through a headphone amp and set so that at 100% PC volume, I'm really maxing things out. I usually drive at 50% and it's jarring, but if I'm getting tired, go down to about 35, and if I really want to kick it, I put it up to 75% but it gives me a headache after about an hour and I feel like stuffs getting hotter than I want it.

The NobSound can't deliver long playing time at the level I usually play at.. and that is way below what the shakers can produce. I think this is a 50W / channel amp at best and kept cutting out on me when I tried to drive it to the level that I usually play. It wasn't crazy hot, but it did cut out which is what I found happened with similar configs of circuit board. It comes with (and recommends) a 19v power supply which could explain why it drops off to meaningless closer to 25hz on my rig as opposed to my favorite amps which get meaningless nearer 20hz.

In the "amp box" vs "amp board" this brings some niceties, like real speaker terminals and common connections, but also some pain points. On this version it's OFF when you plug it in.. every time you have to push the vol knob to turn it on. This would suck for me as I have all my audio and tactile on it's own power strip that I flip if I'm walking away even for a few minutes.

Being realistic, these are $54 on Amazon. They come with nice cables, and a power supply. It's a got circuit bluetooth, a volume level display and a fancy volume on/off knob, and speaker terminals. Add up all the parts to put this together in a nice consumer package, and you've got about $5 left to spend on the amp circuit, and I've tested a bunch of $5 amp circuits - and they perform just like this.

Bottom line. If you have smaller shakers, or don't want to push the AuraSound shakers hard, and you want the easiest connection possible then the price is right for sure. If you are using this with AuraSound shakers you're missing out on about 25% or more potential shake compared to other cheap options that are a little more work. Using 1 cheap-as-chips mono TP3116 based amp per channel remains the most successful way I've found to push these hard all day without issues.

An Alternative :
Also easy to connect and feels high quality. You can push it really hard but it will run so hot you can smell it (but keep working). Feels less fragile. Same spec (including bluetooth) and sound characteristics. After Power Supply you're looking at around the same price.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XG33WPN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Mr Latte]

Nice research and interesting...
It would be nice to see a full comparison of budget amps compared to budget amp boards and this done with multiple transducers, not just the model used.

Douk Audio that make Nobsound have a large range of amps, some likely to use different board/amps but they seem to bring new products all the time.

What I dont understand is that often the same model numbers in boards/chips may be used so why you find such differences in the comparison done is odd. You are saying based on your test an NS20G amp rated at 100w per channel struggles to drive a 50w budget transducer?

We have a scenario that the option you personally prefer, offers a cheap solution, looks like a home-made explosive (heehee) and is going to require a lot of work if that person is not into electronics or d.i.y. So if prices are so little between buying an already made product with a nice build and finish (as you highlight) for most people just wanting a buy/connect solution it appears much easier and more attractive option.

I think we need additional input from any other owners for their experiences to determine if the unit you have has an issue or if other owners have found the same issue with the NS20G powering even 50W entry-level transducers. I have only tested them with the 40w thruster exciters I recommend and to use those in group pairs. Simply because they will outperform AuraSound AST-2B/4 when it comes to detail and higher frequency range.

Now based on memory of owning Aura Pro years ago (unless these more recent units are different) they are not that great above 70Hz and if I recall worked best from @ 30+ to @ 60+ Hz. Can you confirm the best operating range you get with them please and the amps you use.

Just my perspective here on someone starting to get into tactile, As transducers to add to a rig they have very limited response and that is why personally I see an exciter and BK combination a much better path to go down towards creating a tactile installation.

Adding in future a punchier BK unit to an Aura model will not do anything to benefit the med-high frequencies and while its cheap it certainly is very lacking if seeking to one day work towards a tactile based configuration that can work with much wider frequency range.

I understand not everyone wants to spend big money on tactile but you should also maybe consider doing a comparison of the exciter combo Vs Aura Pro or other budget units even to compare their working frequency ranges and how they can be installed.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

This thread is very relevant to me right now. I have an NSG15 amp and am hoping to power 2x AuraSound AST-2B/4s with it.

@gnoshme

On paper, the NSG15 and NSG20 have pretty much identical specs, just with different features and housings. Would you expect the NSG15 to perform in the same way that the NSG20 did in your test when used with AST-2B/4s? I can't test this yet myself as I'm still getting everything mounted.

As Mr Latte touched on above... I am one of those people would much prefer to use a "finished" unit. I'm happy to pay a little more for a solution that looks a lot neater and doesn't cause me additional work to mount, wire, make enclosures, etc... I am impressed when other people choose this route but it really isn't for me.

Your recent overview of budget board mounted amps was of great help and interest, particularly how it highlighted which chipsets to use and which to avoid. A similar comparison of enclosed amps would be very appealing for newcomers like myself who are looking at these options. I understand that this might not be such an interesting route for yourself, but I do feel that it would appeal to a majority if you have the time, passion and means to do so.

My plan is to test the NSG15 with the AST-2B/4s and if it doesn't perform as I hope, then I'll hopefully use it to power some Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4's and look for a new amp to use with the AST-2B/4s. I'm happy to report on my findings of how my setup works out but feel that my lack of experience, and not being able to compare it to another setup, will limit it's worth. I guess that is what makes your feedback around these budget amps, transducers and exciters so valuable to people like me.

 

[bassun]

Gnoshme -- I'm kind of surprised in the difference we experienced in those amps. But, perhaps I have underestimated what the Aura 2B-4's can do? I was getting a rattle so I turned back my power to a gain of 24 [20.4v power supply] (this was in PC2 - in iRacing the street stocks had such a heavy RPM rattle at idle, I turned them down more lol). That was a mounting issue. I underestimated the amount of movement, and was getting metal on metal contact. I've since repositioned them and no longer get that. But, I have not re-tuned the shakers w/ the amp since then. Maybe I can push a lot harder than I thought.

Regardless -- I think we need to probably consider the impact of full power to the board. I ran across a chart, which naturally I cannot find now, which showed a breakdown of available wattage based on voltage provided. Obviously, you only get the full 100 watts at 24v. I, unfortunately, did not make a copy nor remember the breakdown. All in all it makes me wonder a few things:

- What is the breakdown of volts to watts, specifically from 19v through 24v. I would not expect a big difference between 19.2 and 20.4 (what I'm running)...but maybe? [then again, I may have been fooled by a rattle]

- Is the 100W rating at 2 Ohm??? I thought I read the 3116 was rated: 100 Watts @ 4 Ohm w/ 24v power. But now I'm beginning to wonder if it is not actually 2 Ohm. The distortion I found as I pushed the power may have just been rig rattle, nothing to do with the shaker...

- Just how hard can I push those 50 Watt Aura Pros??? Have I been underestimating what they can do?

All that considered, if it IS rated 100 Watts at 2 Ohm... well, that changes things a bit. Unfortunately, I don't remember reading the Aura's had any built in protection, so I'm kind of afraid to push a full 24v load with any significant gain settings if it IS running 100 Watts. That said, at 20.4 and gain of 24 the shakers have not gotten hot. I assume they would get hot to the touch before risking any components. Maybe I need to re-test them and see if my new mounting position allows me to push them much harder.

I'm kind of happy and disappointed at the same time. Maybe I can push these guys harder, which makes me happy happy happy! or maybe, the amp's are rated at 2 Ohm's which makes me sad. Although, I was able to push 2 Exciters to the point where they were able to compress the 3M enough to bang against my mounting plate while wired in series off one channel well before maxing the gain on the amp. (still at 20.4 v). That makes me think they are able to push 100 watts not 50. I assumed I was over driving the exciters. Maybe again, I am just underestimating how far I can push all of these guys...

I guess the real thing is if you get useful shake from them. I do. But like all things racing... I want more power lol.

 

[bassun]

Regarding stereo effects:

In the audio world you will find that higher frequencies are more directional than low frequencies. Look at a typical 5.1 set up --- the front's - rear's and centers are all positioned specifically to offer directionality. The sub or LFE can basically live anywhere and you get the effect. You also have a more difficult time determining where it comes from, where as a voice from stage left is obvious.

While playing around with stereo effects I've noted the same, albeit at lower frequencies (obviously). But I am not positive of the cause yet.

Mr Latte -- I know you have played a ton with directional effects. Have you noted a specific range where the frequencies no longer become as directional? You have more power and more range than most - and have tested more than probably anyone else. If anyone has noted the sweet spot to transition from mono to stereo it would be you. I have noted some changes but I also know I am losing amplitude (based on my setup) into the lower frequencies so the amplitude drop off could be swaying my perception. It may be that in a tactile setup there effectively is no directionality difference and that it all depends on amplitude. What are your thoughts?

 

[Mr Latte]

A lower frequency has more bass bandwidth/energy so it will travel further than higher frequencies the tactile is dispersing its energy into. What has worked best for me was controlling how/where the energy from the BK goes into the seat.

A large BK units bass from let's say a left side installed unit will easily fill the whole seat. My own approach was to increase the surface area the left/right units had with each seat side to disperse their energy into the far left/right-hand sides of the seat base.

The point of contact/entry for the tactile to flow into the seat should let the user determine where the sensation is coming from, where it first originated and its strength should be stronger at that point in the seat even though its energy will travel freely in the seat itself.

The mind will focus/detect more the positional placement or origin with stereo effects if we then use more than one primary point of contact and body region. This can be two units with pedals/seat for legs and the main body detecting their operation/placement.

However our brain will connect what we see/hear and feel to tie in all these senses for more immersion.
For me tactile does not work or feel nice unless I have the audio helping to represent what I am feeling, it can also sound unpleasant if you lower volume or take off headphones.

I do think however some people are more susceptible to feeling stereo tactile than others. Non directional response. A single large BK with a user seeing/hearing a bump of a left chicane even with a single mono unit can be fooled to thinking it came from that side. Their brain will just connect that felt sensation with that event/response they are doing. Stereo effects however are not always on/off for the left/right channels. An effect could have most of its energy to one side but still some response on the opposite side. Suspension bumps are an example and you can see in Shakeit what channels and the output is within its own software.

However with "stereo" we have several effects that can be used to offer directional placement immersion to tie in with what the car is doing. For me, good tactile and improved stereo to some extents is like having motion in tactile as we can then get more feedback to what the cars handling is doing.

My own build is going to show how I can apply stereo effects to much more body regions.
For example, the seat alone focuses on, Knees, Legs, Lower Back, Sides and Shoulders because each side has purposely designed mounting points of entry or with using the exciters offering direct installation to those body regions.

How and what channels we then use to distribute the effects can be controlled in Shakeit and its something I look forward to do in testing with this build I am preparing. A typical installation that most go for with two rear units bringing energy into the seat base is not achieving the most potential in bringing stereo representation. I certainly found the exciters added greatly to improving stereo sensations and using more bodyzones to be very relevant to our brains ability in processing their detection or placement.

 

[Mr Latte]

NS 20G not powerful enough?
Nobsound Amp 4ohm Stereo 160watt per channel
£70/$79

Info
UK Price

It appears to use same chip (TDA7498E) as SMSL 160w amp but costs about £20 less.

Take note, rated watts may not always be for RMS, (constant output) they can be for PMPO (peak music power output). Brands will not always make this clear as to what their rating represents.

* Querying Recent Tests
If TDA7498E is being reported at not performing well below a measly 60Hz then something is not right, with the sample used or how the test was conducted.

@Anton_Chez

I say this as sim racers for years, have been using SMSL amps with that or similar boards to power Aura Pro, ADX. Reckhorn, Dayton Puc and other budget tactile. In at least 2 users cases I know of, with the 160w model used to power BK Mini lfe with no such reports of bad performance.

You will find people even discussing or using these waaaaay back on forums from years ago such as Inside Sim Racing.

 

[Kieran527]

What amp would be best suited to running a BK Mini LFE?
Looking at running 2 Dayton pucks on my pedal plate with the nobsound amp.
Then 2 more Dayton pucks and a Bk mini LFE on my seat
Is it better to run the pucks and Bk mini off a 4 channel amp, or the pucks off another nobsound amp and the Bk mini off a separate amp?

 

[Mr Latte]

Gnoshme -- I'm kind of surprised in the difference we experienced in those amps. But, perhaps I have underestimated what the Aura 2B-4's can do? I was getting a rattle so I turned back my power to a gain of 24 [20.4v power supply] (this was in PC2 - in iRacing the street stocks had such a heavy RPM rattle at idle, I turned them down more lol). That was a mounting issue. I underestimated the amount of movement, and was getting metal on metal contact. I've since repositioned them and no longer get that. But, I have not re-tuned the shakers w/ the amp since then. Maybe I can push a lot harder than I thought.

Regardless -- I think we need to probably consider the impact of full power to the board. I ran across a chart, which naturally I cannot find now, which showed a breakdown of available wattage based on voltage provided. Obviously, you only get the full 100 watts at 24v. I, unfortunately, did not make a copy nor remember the breakdown. All in all it makes me wonder a few things:

- What is the breakdown of volts to watts, specifically from 19v through 24v. I would not expect a big difference between 19.2 and 20.4 (what I'm running)...but maybe? [then again, I may have been fooled by a rattle]

- Is the 100W rating at 2 Ohm??? I thought I read the 3116 was rated: 100 Watts @ 4 Ohm w/ 24v power. But now I'm beginning to wonder if it is not actually 2 Ohm. The distortion I found as I pushed the power may have just been rig rattle, nothing to do with the shaker...

- Just how hard can I push those 50 Watt Aura Pros??? Have I been underestimating what they can do?

All that considered, if it IS rated 100 Watts at 2 Ohm... well, that changes things a bit. Unfortunately, I don't remember reading the Aura's had any built in protection, so I'm kind of afraid to push a full 24v load with any significant gain settings if it IS running 100 Watts. That said, at 20.4 and gain of 24 the shakers have not gotten hot. I assume they would get hot to the touch before risking any components. Maybe I need to re-test them and see if my new mounting position allows me to push them much harder.

I'm kind of happy and disappointed at the same time. Maybe I can push these guys harder, which makes me happy happy happy! or maybe, the amp's are rated at 2 Ohm's which makes me sad. Although, I was able to push 2 Exciters to the point where they were able to compress the 3M enough to bang against my mounting plate while wired in series off one channel well before maxing the gain on the amp. (still at 20.4 v). That makes me think they are able to push 100 watts not 50. I assumed I was over driving the exciters. Maybe again, I am just underestimating how far I can push all of these guys...

I guess the real thing is if you get useful shake from them. I do. But like all things racing... I want more power lol.

See info HERE on volts/wattages
The PDF manual for the Aura clearly does not recommend pushing them beyond their rated 50watts.

When you use multiple effect layers, this increases the amplitude of frequencies different effects are using at the same time. You can't really avoid having frequencies overlap with various effects if you are using a transducer that is using only @ 30-70Hz giving good response. As most of your effects are going to use similar frequencies. You may have heard people say "less is more" and this is a common issue.

So this increased amplitude, (frequencies overlapping) combined with increased "gain" (soundcard input level to amp) and then applying increased "volume" (output from amp to tactile) is likely going to have these overlapping frequencies peaking, the unit struggling to cope or be composed and the detailing of the individual effects just being a mash of similar vibration. I often get the impression most people run their tactile too hard seeking more output from something that is only meant to have minimal output being an entry level or budget option.

Okay, sure it may feel strong with that 40-50Hz peak range, if intensity of sensation is your goal but good luck having enjoyable tactile if you seek even more wattage. A bigger unit that handles greater wattage would be what it seems you are seeking, or to add another pair of units you have and keep the volume under control.

Harmonics & Resonance
In reference to some discussion about these two factors.
I am not an engineer, nor expert on the matter, nor have I studied to a professional level audio science but this is my understanding. Someone is welcome to correct me if this is incorrect.

Harmonics are natural, they also have reduced amplitude to the fundamental frequency but harmonics and resonance in a seat are not the same thing. Resonance I believe is the combination of harmonics generated by the audio within the material, we can't really control this flow, different materials resonate at different frequencies and sound travels at different speeds depending on the materials or substance. We can though reduce the output amplitude of specific Hz via (Parametric EQ) to reduce key frequencies that are resonating in the materials.

Harmonics in a musical sense are overtones that are naturally generated. We can however, control and insert manual harmonics in our effects creation to help craft better effects or for certain sensations.

Harmonics can help give an effect a fuller sensation, or to smooth/soften how an effect feels. A good example of this is having a BK unit use an effect with low Hz (15Hz)and then an exciter have a harmonically matched effects layer with 2nd, (30Hz) and 3rd tier (60Hz) harmonics. The much deeper bass from the BK will fill the seat easily and with combining the output from the exciter then we get the two units working well in tandem with harmonically matched (overtones) to generate sensations you cannot get working the same from a single unit, plus you get wider dispersion of the effect because you are not relying on a single unit or only one point of installation the effect is going into the seat.

 

[bassun]

@ Mr Latte -- thx - and more good info! (That wasn't the same chart, but does what it needed!)

As an aside --- I went ahead and ordered 2 exciters for the back of my seat, can only do two but that's better than none - I have two on the wheel mounting plate and find them useful, I think I will probably mesh them and the seat ones in a stereo series set up. I get to play with them none the less... but

THEN - hit a deal on some BK LFE's. Suddenly now I am looking at how I will power potentially 3 of the suckers. I think we agree the smaller Nobsounds probably are not the best option for the 4 Ohm LFE's, so now I have a 209, 2 Thrusters, and 3 BK LFE's in the mail... and need to figure out how I will power the BK's lol. Heck, I'm not even sure where or HOW I will mount them lol.

On a good note -- if I can figure all of this out, I will likely NOT be buying any more tactile (maybe another 209 for a stereo setup if I happen to like it). But if I do buy anything more, the wife may beat me lol.

 

[F1Aussie]

For you guys discussing amps, I don't know of it is an option for you or not but the Behringer NX1000D or NX3000D allow you to set a maximum amount of power to go into your shakers at a certain ohm so they don't get overpowered and blow. This is a pretty cool feature that the NX Edit software can do.

 

[Mr Latte]

@ Mr Latte -- thx - and more good info! (That wasn't the same chart, but does what it needed!)

As an aside --- I went ahead and ordered 2 exciters for the back of my seat, can only do two but that's better than none - I have two on the wheel mounting plate and find them useful, I think I will probably mesh them and the seat ones in a stereo series set up. I get to play with them none the less... but

THEN - hit a deal on some BK LFE's. Suddenly now I am looking at how I will power potentially 3 of the suckers. I think we agree the smaller Nobsounds probably are not the best option for the 4 Ohm LFE's, so now I have a 209, 2 Thrusters, and 3 BK LFE's in the mail... and need to figure out how I will power the BK's lol. Heck, I'm not even sure where or HOW I will mount them lol.

On a good note -- if I can figure all of this out, I will likely NOT be buying any more tactile (maybe another 209 for a stereo setup if I happen to like it). But if I do buy anything more, the wife may beat me lol.

Okay, good to hear your expanding things. Is that the Mini "lfe" or Fullsize "LFE" you got a good deal on?
The 160w Nobsounds seem to be enough to power the BK Mini as some owners have had them using the SMSL amps with same chipset. Personally I have not tested this combo.

Still the best amp to buy I can find for tactile and taking into account performance/features/price is the Behringer NX1000D or the NX3000D. The issue with some regions is the price for them is higher than the previous model but in UK/EU they are not badly priced at all. As stated look on ebay for sales of the older iNuke 1000/3000 DSPseries. You can get bargains folks.

The NX1000D will power anything from the smallest exciter and upto 2x the largest BK Concert @ 2ohm
The NX3000D will do the same, I recommend it for the largest Buttcker LFE @ 4ohm
(This ensures we pass the recommended min wattage of 400w for each model)

So with these amps once you buy into them they will support 2ohm/4ohm units and will not need upgraded/replaced if you ever venture towards higher-end hardware. You can pay a small amount now on something basic but longterm it in my view is good to buy the better amp at the start and have it with the additional benefits the DSP brings as well.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Some great advice being shared on here and my understanding of a achieving full setup that uses components to compliment each other is definitely improving.

I'm going to run with my original plan of installing the Aurasound ast-2b-4's under my seat in stereo. I like the idea of swapping them out for a bigger unit that can handle lower frequencies, but I'm trying to keep some control over the budget here.

I will then being looking to add 4 exciters to the rear of the seat (2 near kidneys & 2 near shoulders). I'm quite drawn to the Dayton Audio range of products, as they seem well priced, readily available and easy to install. Can you recommend any exciters from their range that would compliment my Aurasound ast-2b-4's?

 

[Elaphe]

I have 4 BS301 shakers screwed to the back and sides of my bucket seat and a SMSL SA-98E amplifier, all controlled with Simvibe or Simhub, and I'm happy with this setup.

Now I would like to add 2 shakers to my pedals.

Can I use the surround output of my motherboard? (the front output is currently used for the shakers on the bucket).

I don't want to spend too much and I don't need very strong vibration on my pedals. I've found these shakers, which are cheaper. Would they be enough?

Considering I'm only using 2 shakers, I suppose I don't need an expensive and powerful amplifier. Can you recommend any model? I have found this model, and this one, which is much cheaper, but I suppose it will not provide enough power, will it?

I have no idea about sound and electronics, so what power do I need for 2 BS301 shakers? And for 2 of the other small model I've linked?

Thank you very much.