Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[bassun]

Hey guys,
Hopefully I am in the right thread?
I recently did the Xbox rumble motor to my fanatec csl elite pedals using Arduino board/shakeit/simhub

I have the brake for lock ups, throttle for wheel spin, one mounted under my wheel for engine revs & gear shifts as well as a buttkicker gamer 2 mounted under my seat simulating road vibrations.

All the motors are using simhubs base settings, does anyone have any suggestions on settings to help dial things in?

Cheers

Hey - I have the motors set up on the pedals myself. During research I found that the larger of the two gave the best "thump" but would always be a bit laggy. I assume spin up time was a little slower. What I personally did was mounted two on each pedal. One small, one larger. I separate slip and lock to throttle and brake, but also break down both slip and lock into two different varieties.

Initially I had the smaller units start first and with no threshold delay at all. Then I have the larger units kick in harder, but at like a 20% threshold. (Not at home, kind of going off memory). But, I kept getting response from the motors when I was not expecting it. I believe I added like 10% threshold to even the small units. The effect I get is a bit of feeling when things start sliding around, then once things get "worse" the bigger units kick in and I get a stronger response and know to watch it.

I also have a BKmini attached to my pedal plate. The higher frequencies it supports does help fill in for "immersion", but you have to be careful as you can overpower the motors feedback with the shaker. I have played with both Lock and Slip on the BMmini as well as deceleration. Mixing deceleration with my BKGamer2 (under the seat) feels great, but at the cost of losing fidelity of the pedals motors. I've been tuning and balancing it from there. My other shakers are also felt in the pedals, so it is a balancing act when you have a lot of tactile and a light rig... lots of trial and error.

Mr Latte -- we kind of discussed the Thrusters vs the HESF's. I did some basic testing and have some good and bad news. The HESF's are definitely a little more potent! Unfortunately, they do not lend well to tactile. The very reason I wanted them was for the additional mounting screws and slightly lower response frequencies. Well -- the mounting screws are perfect...for audio. They would allow you to mount the transducer to the wall, and attach your medium to the transducer with the 3M and avoid many of the hanging solutions the Thrusters are used with. Great for audio! But, doesn't give the best mounting or transfer for tactile. Basically, the whole unit would move and would use the cone as a mounting substrate which I feel would fail quickly. It's not how they are designed to be used, so I never even tried them for legitimate tactile.

On a different note - I wanted to talk about the Nobsound 20g's. I had intended on going with just amp boards, but after some digging and research I actually decided to go with the Nobsounds.

Here is why: Amp boards are just fine, don't get me wrong (for under 100 watt units obviously), so don't feel I am ignoring what they offer. And, I think it is important to understand that the Nobsound 20g's are basically two 100 watt boards in a case...with a digital gain...and a nice power on / gain control button... and 3.5mm input and 2.5mm power input... and multiple speaker outputs. IE - they are just more convenient to work with, and already have a case. When I looked at boxing up, and wiring boards it ended up being basically as cheap to just get the Nob's and use them especially if you run multiples off a single power supply. ($38 on Ebay w/ no power supply for two 100watt amps in one box). I do wish they had separate gains in case you were not running stereo.

I was running 4 channels off 2 Nob's with no issues in Project Cars 2. I had 2x Aura AST 2b-4's in stereo off one, a BKMini and 2x Exciters off the other (40 watt 4 Ohm exciters, in series so 8 Ohm load to the amp, but about 1/2 the individual wattage per exciter. Which is really handy since the Nobs can push 100W). First testing at gain of 24 and the Aura's were heating up the Nob pretty warm. Like warmer than I would like, warm. I turned a small fan from me to over my amps and she started running cool as a cucumber! The case apparently works like a heat sink and a little airflow over that aluminum works great! I shifted to iRacing and found that I needed to retune significantly (street stocks rattled me to death, especially at idle). I wanted to separate the mini from the exciters (plus I need to add more exciters in) so I pulled out a third Nob and now run Mini on one, exciters on one and the Aura's on one. All off one Meanwell LRS-350-24 power supply ($30). I turned it down to 20.4 volts. The Nob's should take 24v with no issues at all, but the recommendation was 19.x volts for optimum performance. (I suspect heat dissipation is the reason for the lower max voltage). And even at 20v I cannot run the amps at full gain, which is great! The highest I have is the Nob for the two 50Watt Aura's at 24. I have not checked the actual wattage output, but can say the shakers do not get hot, and do not sound bangy. Above 24 I was getting a lot of noise and other rattles. I think noise was from my rig - but the result was the same -- can't run them wide open yet.

Also the connections are dead simple. Most sound cards have TRS (3.5mm) connections covering Front L&R, Rear L&R, Sub & Center (in 5.1) and add Side L&R for 7.1. Nob's have a TRS input - so wiring is cheap and simple. 1/8th inch (3.5mm) TRS male to male wire. That's it. Unless you happen to have a card that uses TRRS (three 3.5mm ports for 7.1 (8 channels). Then you have to break them out into channels and back down to TRS. Not horrible to do, but does take a bit more wiring. If anyone is having trouble with a card that has TRRS - hit me up -- I've fought and won against mine lol.

Anywho - I had seen a lot of suggestions for the Nobsound 20G, but not much on why. Figured I would share my experience and why I personally like them. Now -- that said... if you are running bigger stuff...yeah, not gonna work! But for the small stuff, I really like them and am impressed!

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

After loitering around on here for a while and trying to soak up as much information as I can, I'm finally ready to dip my toes in to tactile feedback. I've now received a Nobsound NS-15g amp and 2x AuraSound AST-2B-4 transducers. My plan is to install these under my bucket seat on brackets, but I wanted to check if I'm taking the right route or if my plans are majorly flawed.

I'm looking get some mounting plates made up from 5mm thick aluminium and bolt them to the bottom of the seat brackets (the AuraSound transducers will be bolted to the underside of the aluminium plates). Hopefully these pictures make sense;

I am limited on space so will be mounting the transducers at the rear of the plates, level with my hips, so they clear the seat runner handle. I've designed them so the transducers are mounted as close to the seat brackets as possible (towards the outer edges).

This raises a couple of questions about the design... Will 5mm aluminium plates be strong enough to support the transducers without them drooping from the weight?... the AuraSound transducers are a little heftier than I expected.

Is the shape of them well suited to transfer vibrations to the seat brackets? I've made the contact area with seat brackets as large as possible in hope that this will help and each side will be fixed with 4x M8 bolts.

I've reached out to a local company about providing the laser cut aluminium plates. They have a minimum order of £75 (+VAT). However that does give me a large sheet to work with where I can also get mounting plates for the pedals and some other bits made. Is this reasonable or quite expensive? If anyone can point me in the direction of a similar and cheaper option in the UK, I'll be happy to follow it up.

Thanks for your time reading this, any help and feedback will be much appreciated.


PS - My future plan is to add exciters directly to the seat and also add exciters or transducers to the pedals.

 

[Mr Latte]

@bassun

Great feedback, thanks for taking the time with the detailed post...
Yes, I don't really get this (recent interest) on budget d.i.y amps. Not that they are a bad option but when we can buy perfectly nice and affordable solutions so cheaply, why bother?

Some people may like the hobbist approach of it and in building something.


Sims
I think different sims are going to need very different settings but Simhub should now let you save/load configurations to make this better.
My focus is still on AC or ACC for tactile testing so I'm not able to offer that much on any in-depth operational differences with other sims. My time is spent doing hotlaps and testing effects I am making, not yet getting to enjoy a full rig and proper racing.

I can feel differences between cars (with same Shakeit settings) and now that I am close to getting all my monitoring hardware up and running I will be able to monitor individual effects (with same or different settings). This way I could see exactly any audible variation/differences the differing telemetry output from one car may be altering from another in what is then being generated/output from Shakeit to the transducers.


More Discussion?
Operational differences in sims with how they can vary is something that users of multiple sims should maybe talk about more or in a thread as to how they adapt or change the settings for their effects between one sim and another.


Multiple Nobsounds?
As you are not needing to use all of the amps wattage/output and a scenario of powering multiple (Nobsound Amps)
Would it be possible to use a daisy-chain cable but only from the one power supply or would it be too much strain on one transformer?
Like THIS

With 3D printers it would also be able to make a nice stand that could hold multiple Nobsound amps as well.
So as an amp yes I think they are a great budget solution.


Exciter Units As Tactile For Pedals
I don't have much experimentation with exciters for pedals.
Do recommend testing this however. If placing exciters for pedals, do not attach the exciter directly to the pedal base or stem.

I would recommend trying to attach a thin metal strip that acts as a "mechanical leverage" to intensify the vibrations from the exciter. My understanding is this is like us increasing the gain. However stick the exciter to the opposite end of the metal strip that is attached to the pedal stem or pedal bass region.


Effects / Longitidinual G.
For acceleration, I use a deep increasing effect layer with unique character and it set to represent (inertia/engine torque) sensations. It's set to feel great on pulling away from 1-2nd gear corners. Have it producing a vibe/sensation that shakes the headphones on my head and face with how those particular frequencies work @ 10Hz-15Hz and feel. It's hard to explain but rather awesome to the fun it adds.

For deceleration, I have found in own tests it's possible to combine nice speed based effects for mild deceleration scenario, this can be great in coming down through the gears from a fast straight to a chicane to intensify the excitement of the decrease in speed.

I also use individual effect layers more for larger deceleration drops using the G forces. I have several layers to then alter/increase how deep this feels under heavy braking so that sensation varies but increases. We can even add a judder sensation to come in prior to the brake locking. Shakeit gives us so much potential and distribution options to even have certain effect layers move over the rig. I want to have a brake sensation later that moves from front to back of the rig with increased braking force and it using deep low bass.

For now, on a temp build, below is quite good.
With high energy scenarios applying low Hz and lots of watts, does make a big difference to what standard/budget tactile will offer.

Low Hz Buttkicker Concert example:

 

[F1Aussie]

Well my two nx3000d Turned up today, have just put them in a rack case tonight and just made my first speakon. Hope to have it all sorted and installed with my four shakers in chassis mode ready for Saturday night. A couple of photos below.

 

[bassun]

@bassun


Sims
I think different sims are going to need very different settings but Simhub should now let you save/load configurations to make this better.
My focus is still on AC or ACC for tactile testing so I'm not able to offer that much on any in-depth operational differences with other sims. My time is spent doing hotlaps and testing effects I am making, not yet getting to enjoy a full rig and proper racing.

I can feel differences between cars (with same Shakeit settings) and now that I am close to getting all my monitoring hardware up and running I will be able to monitor individual effects (with same or different settings). This way I could see exactly any audible variation/differences the differing telemetry output from one car may be altering from another in what is then being generated/output from Shakeit to the transducers.





Multiple Nobsounds?
As you are not needing to use all of the amps wattage/output and a scenario of powering multiple (Nobsound Amps)
Would it be possible to use a daisy-chain cable but only from the one power supply or would it be too much strain on one transformer?
Like THIS

With 3D printers it would also be able to make a nice stand that could hold multiple Nobsound amps as well.
So as an amp yes I think they are a great budget solution.

SIMS:
Yeah, I quickly noticed differences between cars. Even kind of similar cars (PC2 Formula Rookie vs Formula A was my first comparison). Seeing the difference between cars was nice in one way, but kind of annoying in another - I'd imagine especially for someone like yourself who has the capacity, and is spending the time to really fine tuning things. I can only imagine that it would become daunting to tune every car to the extent you would like.

It's awesome that there is profile switching with Simhub - it would be kind of nice if there was a similar option for car by car as well. Have a basic default, or if you have a profile for "X" it would load that - so that one could tune their favorite cars and have it just use that. Simple idea, but a lot of work to apply would be my guess lol.

Multiples:
I think it would be possible, in some cases, but not as a long term solution if you plan on expanding - IF you are using the available 19.2v transformer I think I read somewhere it was a 3 amp variant. (Don't quote me, I cannot find where I saw that at, so could have been from a different project.) Now, that said - if you are using a transformer that is robust enough - using a daisy chain may be an option if the cable is rated for it.

I am using some basic 2.5mm pigtails to a Meanwell 350w 24v 15A power supply. I anticipate that I can power 4 Nobsounds off of it with no issues which put it cheaper than the $10 for each individual transformer. It also saves 3 outlet connections. Cost was not the driving factor - the adjustable voltage and form factor was. The Nobsounds use the TPA3116 chip which is rated at 100W @ 4 Ohms, at 24V. With the individual transformers I would be locked at 19.2V max leaving me short of the potential of the chips. Using the PS I can adjust from roughly 20v to 24v+. Heat, of course, will likely be a concern if you run @ 24v and push the amps at all. So far, 20.4v has been more than enough voltage to drive the gain levels I need.

I will mention cooling again though -- Running two 50w units (one on each channel) @ 20v with gain set at 24 did get the amp warmer than I liked. (Mixed testing some tones and running in game) However, turning a small fan across my amps cooled them surprisingly well. They literally stay cool running the same setup.

The 3D stand would be a really cool idea! I personally just used velcro and attached them directly to my mounting plate. I kind of liked the small air gap it added below the amp for maybe a little bonus cooling, but that was not the reason for the mounting method. They just do not lend well to bolting down, and are so small velcro works just great. Plus, I have mine kind of packed tight, so it's easy to pull them off the plate to swap wires, etc. as I'm testing things.

 

[bassun]

I wanted to kind of put this out there --- I am going with the "discount" version of tactile. I am NOT against the high end concept running the best stuff out there. It's just not as big of a passion for me, and I am not willing to spend for the financial outlay it would take to go to the top.

I am also doing it on a small and light frame (GT Omega Art). Using smaller transducers like the AuraPro 2b's is certainly NOT the best method to introduce serious shake, especially on heavier set ups. Comparing them to even the BKG2 you feel a notable difference at the lower end. I like the smaller units, and I contend they have a place in filling out responses on rigs with multiple units. But I really like the amplitude from the bigger units. Mr Latte's advice on big amps and big shakers will absolutely give you bigger results. Keep in mind, those results do cost power and money. I had not thought too much about power until I was wiring up what I have. Looking at what some of these units pull, I don't think my circuit could even support what Mr Latte has, lol.

All that aside -- once I find a good deal on at least one BK LTE (or similar) I will add that to the system. He's said it 1000 times, you just cannot beat the big units for the big low end stuff. And for me big thus far is only a BKG2...

 

[Elaphe]

I have 4 BS301 shakers screwed to my fiber bucket seat, together with a SMSL SA-98E amplifier and Simvibe. I have 2 on the lower back and 2 on the sides. I'm happy with this setup. However, now I'd like to add one shaker to the bottom of my pedals. I'm also purchasing a new bucket seat, and I'm not sure if there will be enough room to install the shakers on the sides of it So, I've thought about different possibilities. Please see the attached image and tell me which would be the best choice. "1" is my current configuration. "2" and "3" are in case the side shakers cannot be installed. "4" and "5" are in case they can. Please consider that I don't care much about sound localization with stereo effects, and I may configure the sound as mono. However, I want to setup the shakers in the places where the vibration is felt the most. Thank you.

 

[Mr Latte]

@bassun

Differences in cars or sims could be fine tuned and saved as a profiles.

I may have much more to adjust with the planned configuration I am doing but I can probably do this much easier than most people's rigs for the following reasons.

A typical user will be doing this just by feel alone wondering how one car/sim has altered in its output to another. Also, I won't need to constantly adjust the software sliders to alter gain levels.

One of the advantages with the way I am configuring my own tactile is that every transducer is routed from each soundcard through its own HA6000 and offers easy gain/bass/treble level adjustment to every channel. I believe this will be far handier than going back/forth over sliders in the software

HA 6000 No1
Rig Pedals (Buttkicker & TST) =6 Channels

HA 6000 No.2
Seat Base (Buttkicker & TST) = 6 Channels

HA 6000 No.3
Seat Back (Exciters) = 6 Channels

I will have these installed with other hardware on a rack that can be positioned in close to the rig if needed.
I have already started installing the hardware and working towards all the needed cabling.



So the beauty is, that I can adjust on the fly any channel individually but as a major bonus with the additional monitoring hardware I am using. I can then go directly to that channel and see what Hz/dB is being output and you also see the differences in realtime what adjusting the gain/bass/treble do from the HA6000.

Its awesome but its turning out to be a costly thing to arrange with good cables and the large number of channels the rig will have.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I have 4 BS301 shakers screwed to my fiber bucket seat, together with a SMSL SA-98E amplifier and Simvibe. I have 2 on the lower back and 2 on the sides. I'm happy with this setup. However, now I'd like to add one shaker to the bottom of my pedals. I'm also purchasing a new bucket seat, and I'm not sure if there will be enough room to install the shakers on the sides of it So, I've thought about different possibilities. Please see the attached image and tell me which would be the best choice. "1" is my current configuration. "2" and "3" are in case the side shakers cannot be installed. "4" and "5" are in case they can. Please consider that I don't care much about sound localization with stereo effects, and I may configure the sound as mono. However, I want to setup the shakers in the places where the vibration is felt the most. Thank you.

I'm far from an expert but since you're aiming for positions where they're felt the most, I'd imagine that options 2 and 3 would be the most effective. This is me presuming that placing them on parts of the seat that have the most contact with your body, they'll be felt the most. I hope that's food for thought if nothing else.

 

[Mr Latte]

I have 4 BS301 shakers screwed to my fiber bucket seat, together with a SMSL SA-98E amplifier and Simvibe. I have 2 on the lower back and 2 on the sides. I'm happy with this setup. However, now I'd like to add one shaker to the bottom of my pedals. I'm also purchasing a new bucket seat, and I'm not sure if there will be enough room to install the shakers on the sides of it So, I've thought about different possibilities. Please see the attached image and tell me which would be the best choice. "1" is my current configuration. "2" and "3" are in case the side shakers cannot be installed. "4" and "5" are in case they can. Please consider that I don't care much about sound localization with stereo effects, and I may configure the sound as mono. However, I want to setup the shakers in the places where the vibration is felt the most. Thank you.

Errr, why would you not care for stereo positioning?
You say you want the units placed where you will feel them the most?

Stereo is one of the bigger immersion benefits and can be used for multiple effects with Shakeit
A good stereo configuration can also improve the dispersion to more body regions than mono, especially with smaller units being used simply because you are reaching direct contact to more body regions with 2 units vs 1.

A large BK can penetrate the whole seat easily but mono with small units will not be that great.
Cranking a single units volume to do the work that two once did is not maybe ideal.

It appears with your options for the seat, you are switching from 4 units to 3, even from a mono perspective, thats 25% less tactile going into the seat with other options you show. That also means you are more likely to place more effects on the 3 units than 4 which can also impact how well you feel each effect. Keep in mind that your thighs/torso has more body contact to utilise than pedals so making full use of the bodyzones here will help immerse you.

I would go with option 1 but add another pair to the shoulders and start using Shakeit instead of Simvibe.
It can support Bumps/Lateral G/Wheelslip and Speed Based Steering (some are custom effects Discord members created). You can then have any stereo effect work on any set or even if you want place a stereo effect of your choice to output over all 3 sets. This will be a big improvement over what Simvibe enabled with just one primary stereo effect and one stereo set of transducers.

As mentioned before Shakeit does not lock you into a fixed configuration. So you could save/load a profile with triple sets of units but have profiles that are mono and profiles that are stereo. It gives you plenty of ways to experiment. You just place effects you want to be active on whatever channels you want, no CM/EM restrictions.

Really though, its upto you how to proceed but I would focus on the seat and then add more units to pedals/wheeldeck at a later time.

 

[Elaphe]

This morning I tried Simhub and it works well. the first thing I noticed was that the vibrations are stronger than with Simvibe. Also, the stereo effect is there, something that I don't feel with Simvibe. It's not night and day because all my shakers are on the seat and the separation is minimum. If I change my shakers moving one to the pedals I understand than configuring them to mono would be my only choice, since the left-right distribution would be mixed (I have 4 shakers but a simple stereo amplifier). I don't want left and right on my bucket seat but left on the bottom of my seat and right on my pedals (which makes no sense).

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Simhub at 60% gain is what Simvibe delivers at 100%.
Don't burn your transducers, lower the gain.

 

[Mr Latte]

This morning I tried Simhub and it works well. the first thing I noticed was that the vibrations are stronger than with Simvibe. Also, the stereo effect is there, something that I don't feel with Simvibe. It's not night and day because all my shakers are on the seat and the separation is minimum. If I change my shakers moving one to the pedals I understand than configuring them to mono would be my only choice, since the left-right distribution would be mixed (I have 4 shakers but a simple stereo amplifier). I don't want left and right on my bucket seat but left on the bottom of my seat and right on my pedals (which makes no sense).

Sometimes its just worth experimenting, for me the seat is the most important part to focus on but I get it that some people want tactile response in the pedals even wheel.

A mono based tactile rig can still feel good, I have said in the past and would still say this that the common person going out and buying multiple amps and transducers to get what we know as a CM configuration. Persuing after having a (4 corners installation).

You can get better immersion from a single large BK Concert than 4xbudget units and the amps they need. Simply because with tactile the budget or entry level units do not get close to bringing the full immersion that the deeper low bass can add to the richness of the effects. Also help in producing more exciting character as well as an increase in felt energy.

All you need to do with Shakeit is determine what channels are for each unit (use the test feature) and then activate each of the effects to the desired channel. Its very simple and I hope you continue to enjoy it, have fun.

*See the Discord as RomainRob shared some additional custom effects.

 

[bassun]

Hey Mr Latte -- I know you played with some of the Clark Synthesis TST's. I remember your recommendation was to stay with Gold or Platinum (at least I think I remember that). Did you get a chance to play with the smaller 209's by any chance? Looks like they may be a possible upgrade from say the Aura Pros to get a bit deeper base, but well shy of the BK LTE and the bigger TST's. Cool thing, if they do decently, is the 209 is rated at 100watts - which means a TPA3116 or Nobsound 20G should be able push one of them per channel.

I'll probably try one since they are a landslide cheaper than the BK LFE and a ton cheaper than the Gold's or Platinum's. Just curious if you had any experience with them.

 

[Atak_Kat]

Hello all. First time posting here, even if lurking.
I really hope not to derail a thread, but it seems this is about the most active and interesting 'tactile' thread I've seen. Been searching for some info amongst the 100+ pages...

Background> new to tactile, but not sim-racing. I recently bought an NX1000D amp, and 2x Mini-LFEs. Seems SimHub is well recommended, I have briefly tried it and am quite sure it's a good place to start. I have a SimLab P1-X, with Sparco seat mounted with the usual Simlab seat brackets (and seat slider). Already did some testing (only one short session test to get things working) with the Buttkickers, and working through the learning curve.

Right or wrong, I somewhat expected a bit more punch from the mini-lfes. But I will work through that to understand if my expectations were just too high, or maybe something to optimize in the amp/etc. Currently no plan to add more than these 2. Will evaluate only after some months whether or not I'd like to expand further.

Planning to start with one mini-lfe under the pedal deck. Early testing seems OK for this.

The question> I think I probably need to mount the 2nd mini-lfe directly to the seat back or bottom in order to feel a bit more punch. And therefore, I'll need to drill through the nice fibreglass. I don't really want to do it more than once. Is there a general consensus for the approximate location to mount it? Lower back? Mid back? Mid shoulder-blade? On the underside??

Thanks for your suggestions, or also links in case this is something covered already (but I haven't found it....)

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey Mr Latte -- I know you played with some of the Clark Synthesis TST's. I remember your recommendation was to stay with Gold or Platinum (at least I think I remember that). Did you get a chance to play with the smaller 209's by any chance? Looks like they may be a possible upgrade from say the Aura Pros to get a bit deeper base, but well shy of the BK LTE and the bigger TST's. Cool thing, if they do decently, is the 209 is rated at 100watts - which means a TPA3116 or Nobsound 20G should be able push one of them per channel.

I'll probably try one since they are a landslide cheaper than the BK LFE and a ton cheaper than the Gold's or Platinum's. Just curious if you had any experience with them.

I would say there is not a great deal of difference in the T209/T239 models.
The T329 and T429 (expensive) have better low bass (not BK levels) and are great in fidelity, so superb for music/tactile enjoyment.

The T209 are not the best for low bass, in general, all the TST are excellent for mid-high bass detailing. So are good for over 60Hz in effects like engines and others that work well with higher frequencies and harmonics. They are also easy driven.

I would say with what we are doing 4-6 exciters on the back of a seat is going to be better for mid/high bass detailing, work with more effects better and potentially still be cheaper than someone seeking to buy say 2x TST with amps.

The beauty with the exciters is placing them directly to the bodyzones, we cant do this in a multichannel application with TST units due to their size. We also need to look more seriously at the benefits multichannel brings (even with exciters) compared to using typically only 2 rear channels and maybe a 3rd channel for engine/speed. Things have moved on this common CM/EM installation approach is no longer the best route to take if a person is seeking better immerison.


"Play it again Sam...."
Having tried pretty much most transducers and with loads of testing/installations.
As said before, for someone seeking towards achieving really good performance, using the large BK and the thruster exciters are the best combination to consider.

This gives you 1-200Hz bass response for the best money spent. You won't get that any other way for the same price. So its why I keep recommending it.

Additions like a DSP amp will give you greater control of the lowest bass (users with large subs also use DSP for performance reasons) as it lets you do things with the lowest Hz for performance/control you cannot get out of them with a standard amp.

For example, with clever/custom filtering and being able to push upto +12dB (approx 4x more energy) to frequencies below 20Hz makes a huge difference to high-intensity effects we can use the lowest frequencies with, that will just about shake off your face!

 

[bassun]

Ok Mr Latte -- I appreciate the insight. I was hoping they had a little more robustness about them in the lower end. 100% agree 4-6 exciters would still be cheaper than even a couple 209's unless you happened across an amazing deal, lol.

 

[Mr Latte]

I would hold out and seek a bargain on ebay for a LFE or Concert.
The BK Advance is pretty good too, if one can be found at a nice price, however its still quite a bit short to what the biggest units can achieve.

Find a way, make it happen!

 

[bassun]

Hello all. First time posting here, even if lurking.
I really hope not to derail a thread, but it seems this is about the most active and interesting 'tactile' thread I've seen. Been searching for some info amongst the 100+ pages...

Background> new to tactile, but not sim-racing. I recently bought an NX1000D amp, and 2x Mini-LFEs. Seems SimHub is well recommended, I have briefly tried it and am quite sure it's a good place to start. I have a SimLab P1-X, with Sparco seat mounted with the usual Simlab seat brackets (and seat slider). Already did some testing (only one short session test to get things working) with the Buttkickers, and working through the learning curve.

Right or wrong, I somewhat expected a bit more punch from the mini-lfes. But I will work through that to understand if my expectations were just too high, or maybe something to optimize in the amp/etc. Currently no plan to add more than these 2. Will evaluate only after some months whether or not I'd like to expand further.

Planning to start with one mini-lfe under the pedal deck. Early testing seems OK for this.

The question> I think I probably need to mount the 2nd mini-lfe directly to the seat back or bottom in order to feel a bit more punch. And therefore, I'll need to drill through the nice fibreglass. I don't really want to do it more than once. Is there a general consensus for the approximate location to mount it? Lower back? Mid back? Mid shoulder-blade? On the underside??

Thanks for your suggestions, or also links in case this is something covered already (but I haven't found it....)

I will leave the detailed info to Mr Latte - he can, and as you have seen does, detail some very specific and useful solutions for placement. I will, however, speak to the BK Mini's.

You expected too much.

I think the mini's have their place, but it is (in my opinion) not as the first or only solution. My personal experience shows they do have a nice range of useful peaks. On my rig they seem to peak at the following frequencies: 31 - 68 - 83 - 118, that said - the peaks are better (again in at least my setup) for the 83 and 118. Conversely even my BKGamer2 has much better low end (15-24-40-57) with 40 and 57 being the biggest hitters. Moreover, the BKG2 hits with much more gusto at it's peaks vs the mini. Again, my setup - so YMMV.

 

[F1Aussie]

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