Is VR dead?

[Rebel_488]

True but they literally just demoed this at ces a few weeks ago, mrtv was creaming all over them as usual. Can’t say I’m surprised, the interviews look like the non American dude is a hostage. I wanted them to be better than this but always suspected a con or let down, either before or after release and we already know support is lack lustre. Be interesting to see how it unfolds but for now my g2 still has the crown and my 3080ti remains mighty.

 

[metalnwood]

Although, on a positive note re the crystal, if they had come out first saying the fov as good as the index but with a really nice FOV and edge clarity I wouldn't have had a problem with those specs.

I never liked the 5k, 8k i tried with the wide fov because they couldnt quite pull it off with the lenses and because of the cost of lenses to pull it off I knew they couldnt do a great job with new headsets either.

But if they were honest, a index FOV with good clarity and a lot more resolution is actually tempting without varjo prices.

 

[RCHeliguy]

But if they were honest, a index FOV with good clarity and a lot more resolution is actually tempting without varjo prices.

Having recently acquired an Aero, one other thing I would mention is that the Aero is the most comfortable headset I've ever worn and that is compared to a Rift, Index and recently G2. Pimax is not well known for comfort. Many people need to mod their Pimaxes to get them to feel decent and I still hear complaints about the weight and size of their headsets. The Aero is not as large as the Pimax headset.

The Aero is also a very well executed premium product at a level past the Index where the Pimax execution has always lagged behind the Index and most others. Varjo also has excellent customer support and stands behind their product. Pimax is not known for their execution, or support after getting your money.

Pimax is also rolling their own inside/out tracking. Do you want to place odds on whether their tracking will work well or handle motion systems well ?

And lets say you are like me and love lighthouse tracking, the Crystal requires the additional purchase of a snap on panel making a very large headset even larger and this panel isn't integrated and has it's own rechargeable battery which seems like a very hacked solution.

I can say that the Aero's tracking so far has worked very well in my room scale area and on my motion rig I've not lost tracking once.

My Aero shipped in 7 days after I ordered it and is available now.

I'm not claiming the Aero is perfect, but the Crystal is not that much cheaper and there is no telling when it will actually be released and there is no telling how much futzing will be required when it shows up. We also haven't actually seen a completed Pimax Crystal.

But if that is tempting, go for it!

 

[metalnwood]

I wouldnt be buying it, my experience with the 5k and 8k was not fantastic for me and the owner has had to do a lot of modding to get it to sit right to feel good and get the sweet spot consistently in the right place. Not to mention his hassles with support needing to get a replacement.

I was just saying that assuming they delivered a reasonable product, its not unattractive with a index fov and better lenses/clarity. They may not have needed to fudge the figures.

 

[gamma123152]

My Aero shipped in 7 days after I ordered it and is available now.

How do you like the Aero? I returned it for the following reasons:

- Edge distortion, really distracting
- "motion blur" while moving my head, had to keep my head straight in sim racing, when I looked into corners it always gave me blur
- A way to small stereo overlap: I clearly saw a black spot between my eyes, something that I never saw with any other VR headset
- Shift of color red, especially in Automobilista 2 this was bothering me
- Massive chromatic aberration, already starting very close to the center(5-10% outside the center is started already to be very visible)
- Greyish blacks
- Dead pixel
- Extremely small vertical FoV, made it unusable for pinball for example but was enough for sim racing
- Couldn't use auto IPD because it have me even worse chromatic aberration compared to manual IPD. So I had to go to the Varjo software suite every single time when I switched using it with friends(+ adjusting 4 knobs, which made using it together with friends impossible(since it takes ~10mins to do it right, all steps))

The nits/brightness was awesome and so was the resolution. But at the time that I had it, I still had the 3080TI so I never tried the highest/35PPD setting at 90fps in AMS2/DR2/AC/ACC and I saw no glare/the lenses were in ~70-80% clear (perfect until the edge distortion started except the mentioned issues(chromatic aberration/red shift and slight mura(mura was not bad enough to call it a big issue, but I saw it in the skies))). But other then that it was a bad experience for me.

How do you experience at all these issues?

I follow the discord of Varjo and I see that all the issues (except the dead pixel issues) are still not solved. Only the motion blur issue seem to be "a gamble" some people are lucky to not suffer from it, all other issues occur in some regard with every single Aero since it's part of their lenses/hardware/software.

Do the issues not bother you??

 

[gamma123152]

Realistically if Pimax wants a future, they will have to go back to fresnel lenses to keep the FOV which is their main selling point.

General consensus at the roadshows was that the Crystal was better on all the Aero issues that I mentioned above here in my previous post:
- zero edge distortion
- better nits/blacks/colors/contrast
- better stereo overlap
- better vertical fov
- manual ipd buttons on hmd and only one knob to adjust it
- much better chromatic aberration, no color shift issue
- only the motion blur issue is unclear, there is one report that it has similar motion blur as the Aero).

Two issues that Pimax has are:
- bad reputation regarding quality management
- bad reputation when it comes to after sales/refunds

But for the rest it's pretty much a perfect sim racing headset, an Aero but without all the issues that excist with the Aero. And the horizontal FoV is about the same as the Aero, not worse maybe a few degrees better but not much for sure but not less either.

If they went back to fresnel lenses then all the great things that the Crystal brings are all gone so it would be the dumbest move for them to possibly do.

I understand that you bought a Varjo now, but this doesn't mean that Pimax is on the wrong track now. They made a great move by competing with Varjo and if Varjo doesn't come with a Aero 2 quick, then Pimax clearly has the advantage once they finally release the Crystal for sale.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So far I like the Aero.

The auto IPD adjustment works very well for me.

I've not noticed any CA or red shift or dead pixels.

My 4090 drives it very well. I'm getting 90fps with high graphics settings at 35ppd.

I have only noticed any issues with blur in games where I whip my head around very quickly. I have not noticed it in sims. It looks amazing in Dirt Rally 2 which is where I would have expected issues if there were going to be any.

I'm very surprised by how low effort it has been to set up.

It works beautifully with my light houses and Index controllers. I simply had to pair it with my controllers which took a few seconds. I never even bothered to set room boundaries. It's still using the settings from.my index.

I've also has no tracking issues in room scale or in Rally with my motion rig.

I've also mentioned how comfortable it is to wear which is important to me.

I do consider the Pimax's snap on lighthouse support with rechargeable battery an issue. The headset is already huge and heavy. This is just a clunky solution.

I would love more FOV, but the Aero has enough and the Crystal simply doesn't have enough of a gain for for me to consider it viable given it's Pimax.

Hopefully with the lower FOV Pimax can resolve the depth of field issue they had at CES.

I'll patiently wait for an Index II or Aero II at this point.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I wouldnt be buying it, my experience with the 5k and 8k was not fantastic for me and the owner has had to do a lot of modding to get it to sit right to feel good and get the sweet spot consistently in the right place. Not to mention his hassles with support needing to get a replacement.

I was just saying that assuming they delivered a reasonable product, its not unattractive with a index fov and better lenses/clarity. They may not have needed to fudge the figures.

Bingo!

The Aero tells you if you don't have the headset positioned properly, but it also has a surprisingly large sweet spot.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My thoughts are that if you can make a Reverb G2 to work well for you, then by all means do that! It has huge bang for the buck.

If that won't work for you and you are impatient, get an Aero.

If you can wait, the Index 2 or Aero 2 will be amazing, some day.

The problem with both the Aero and Crystal is that they are both stop gaps at least to me. They both will require a 4090 and recent poweful CPU to work well.

For many that is a $4,000-5,000 total upgrade for the computer and headset.

Most Pimax owners I know want the 12K, period. To them the Crystal is a training wheels headet for Pimax to figure out how to get to the 12K which they all see as harder to produce and I think Pimax would have produced the 12K if they could.

The 12K will have an aspheric/fresnel hybrid lens.

Based on what has happened with the Crystal the aspheric section of the 12K will be the hard part.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've been told that the Pimax announcement lowering the FOV was generated by ChatGPT and is a complete fabrication.

Apparently there is a telltale watermark on the page that is the symbol for text generated by ChatGPT.

So 140 FOV was never off the table.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Looks better than I would have expected.

I think this makes 3 recent VR headsets that are very small and lightweight.

I really really like that trend!
Here's to hoping the next Index is also a lightweight

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Custom printed face gasket? I can see benefit for lenses made for near sighted people, but customized foam insert (yes, spongy foam), sorry, looks like marketing gimmick to me, a genre in crisis. Guess custom made orders are not returnable either.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Custom printed face gasket? I can see benefit for lenses made for near sighted people, but customized foam insert (yes, spongy foam), sorry, looks like marketing gimmick to me, a genre in crisis. Guess custom made orders are not returnable either.

I understand your point.
But because of the extremely small size and (urgent) the integrated prescription thing I think they will get a good audience.
I guess the "Custom printed face gasket" is to get a good fit without all the bulky straps and what-have-we that makes all other VR sets too heavy(IMO).
Something also worth mentioning is the screen.
If they can offer a microled display with the mentioned resolution to that price ($999) the quality of the view will by garantee be better than all other vr kits on the marked now.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: If they can follow up on their promisses then I think Ill be ready to open my wallet.

 

[jgf]

VR is in its infancy still. And much as FFB struggled 20+ years ago, with many manufacturers embracing it and just as many decrying it as "gimmicky", VR will struggle. First they will need to standardize it and settle on a compatible format; the computer industry in general is always slow to adopt compatibility (remember pass-through vid cards?). Then go for realistic effects rather than pure titillation; years ago 3D movies were virtually killed because producers were more interested in showing off the effects rather than making a good movie with effects (and because of lack of compatibility in 3D formats). Look at the many videos around of people yelling, screaming, flailing their arms and legs, knocking over furniture, falling over the dog, while "under the influence" of a VR headset. Such sensationalism attracts attention, but doesn't hold it; VR manufacturers must recognize this or VR will be merely a fad. VR must be a realistic addition to a game, not a flashy sideshow.

Personally I've little interest because I hate wearing a headset; even as a recording engineer I hated headphones, i wanted the sound in the room, not in my head. I've tried VR with FlightSim, and it was interesting to pan around the cockpit by just moving my head ....but i still hated the headset. I would rather have a large panoramic screen I could look around.

 

[BrunoBæ]

but i still hated the headset. I would rather have a large panoramic screen I could look around.

If just NVIDIAs 3D Vision could have been transfered to both AMD cards and even better to general 3D TVs then we could have used both 3D monitors and 3D TVs to game on.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: And ofcourse this 3D technology needed also to be developed a lot more than when it was allowed to die.

 

[gamma123152]

Custom printed face gasket? I can see benefit for lenses made for near sighted people, but customized foam insert (yes, spongy foam), sorry, looks like marketing gimmick to me, a genre in crisis. Guess custom made orders are not returnable either.

It's useless for a other reason; it makes the usage of the hmd with friends impossible. So I see it as a disadvantage.

 

[wajdi]

From reddit

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Judging by a sheer "enthusiasm" of the article it might not be the best investment for Sony, esp. with the lack of the new content and old content not supported by new headset.
It was the biggest VR market segment and look at the comments.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/playstation-vr-2-review-running-in-place/1100-6511528/

 

[gamma123152]

Judging by a sheer "enthusiasm" of the article it might not be the best investment for Sony, esp. with the lack of the new content and old content not supported by new headset.
It was the biggest VR market segment and look at the comments.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/playstation-vr-2-review-running-in-place/1100-6511528/

The mass market never wants to pay much for new things. The PSVR2 is more expensive than the PS5 itself, that's the main issue I think.

But it are 18 comments, it says nothing at all for that reason. You cannot draw conclusions from 18 comments.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

PS5 is mass market console, is VR just a wrong accessory for it at the current price and more importantly lack of content? Chicken and an egg problem, you don't have mass adoption, you can't invest into development.