Dispensing with the sandbags.

[Lars Hansen]

I'm not entirely sure how to do this politely, to be honest.
Then again, I'm not racing much these days due to time-constraints, so I don't have any particular personal stake in it.
So I'm just going to state a personal opinion, and people can take it for whatever they like.

But can we please get people to stop sandbagging during qualification in the Club races?
I'm not out to start a witch-hunt, so I'm not naming any names. This is simply a general observation.
I started noticing it a few months ago, and now it's becoming just blatantly obvious.
I get that it's a way to challenge yourself against what might be a weaker field, and if you have a YT channel, I'm sure it makes for exhilarating viewing for your followers.

Unfortunately, it also means that you regard the rest of the Club racers as nothing more than cannon-fodder, which is not only f*cking annoying, it's also arrogant to the point of contempt.
Besides, you're not fooling anybody. Once you've raced against the same people 3-4 times you get a pretty good idea of their pace, which means that now you have a bunch of people in front of you who know they'll have to let you through at some point. And if some of these people are newcomers or simply less experienced, you've just increased the chances of a racing incident manifold, for no reason whatsoever.

You wouldn't do it if this was a league-race.
You wouldn't do it if there was a MP ranking-system in place.
So pretty please, with sugar on top.......

<mod-edit: removed foul language>

 

[John Wiesenmueller]

They do come into play, at least technically.
https://www.youtube.com/t/privacy_guidelines
For content to be considered for removal, an individual must be uniquely identifiable by image, voice, full name, National Insurance number, bank account number or contact information (e.g. home address, email address)

Reading the German YT ToS says that the points will be used to judge if it's an abuse. But it says also that they validate your agreement.

 

[Case_]

@Lars Hansen No, they don't. Read my original response to you. A name alone is not a unique identifier. At least not if shown randomly within the context of a video game where the actual physical person behind the avatar (or car in this instance) could literally be anybody.

 

[Lars Hansen]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but if my name appears on a video, i'm still not uniquely identifiable.

Reading the German YT ToS says that the points will be used to judge if it's an abuse. But it says also that they validate your agreement.

@Lars Hansen No, they don't. Read my original response to you. A name alone is not a unique identifier. At least not if shown randomly within the context of a video game where the actual physical person behind the avatar (or car in this instance) could literally be anybody.

You'll have to ask YT and Twitch.
For what it's worth, I have no idea whether or not a full name is enough to get a video removed due to a complaint. And again, personally I couldn't care less.
All I did was quote the ToS, which states that gamer-tags are OK, but real names are not. Whether or not this is open to interpretation, or whether or not just a name qualifies as a unique identifier, I couldn't tell you.
Maybe, maybe not. But at any rate, the worst thing that'll happen is that you get asked to remove it, and that's even assuming someone complains about it in the first place.

I mean, feel free to blame me for the sh*tstorm re. the MP races, but the YT/Twitch legalities, or whether RD allows streaming or not is kinda out of my hands.

 

[SimonS]

As long as people race as cleanly as they can - which has been the case in all RD races I've participated in - I don't have a problem with people starting at the back and racing through the field. Personally I've always enjoyed @Georg Ortner streams and feel you can learn alot about not just being fast but racing as well especially when doesn't qualify. It's obvious he does this for his own enjoyment but I've always got the impression he wants to promote r3e and the leagues like RD that use it which shouldn't be forgotten.

 

[Case_]

But at any rate, the worst thing that'll happen is that you get asked to remove it, and that's even assuming someone complains about it in the first place.

I would be OK with that risk and I would certainly remove the video if asked. I'm not breaching the ToS with what I'm doing, so the chance of it even happening is almost zero (unless someone flags my video in spite).

But the problem is that now the RD rules explicitly require me to get permission from everyone for every single stream/video without even specifically explaining how to do that, what is or isn't considered "getting a permission" and many other related things, or somehow remove the names from the screen completely, just to be sure. Which I'm currently considering for tonight's R3E race (or not streaming at all or signing out and spending time elsewhere), but I can't imagine doing so for example with AMS where it might be possible to avoid showing people's names during the race (even though it means covering stuff like the leaderboard/timing), but since the names are now shown even on the game's main screen, it'd mean just blanking the whole screen numerous times during the stream/video. Same with AC.

So we're now in a Catch 22 situation here, really. I don't really even know the full extent of what's expected of me, but at the same time, I'm expected to fully comply with it. And I don't even know what will happen if my actions are deemed as a breach of the rules (and on what criteria). Will I get a race ban? Will I be banned from RD completely? Will nothing really happen, just like it was until now when people included TS?

Honestly, the easiest solution seems to stop streaming entirely, because this is a mess. At which point I might as well be looking for a different racing club, because although I am certainly pretty bad at racing, I still do enjoy my streaming quite a lot and would certainly like to continue doing it.

 

[Georg Ortner]

As long as people race as cleanly as they can - which has been the case in all RD races I've participated in - I don't have a problem with people starting at the back and racing through the field.

It is pretty clear to me that the majority shares this opinion.
But as always the naysayers tend to get more attention.

Unfortunately this affects all of us drivers and the reputation of this community as a whole.

 

[jimortality]

I would be OK with that risk and I would certainly remove the video if asked. I'm not breaching the ToS with what I'm doing, so the chance of it even happening is almost zero (unless someone flags my video in spite).

But the problem is that now the RD rules explicitly require me to get permission from everyone for every single stream/video without even specifically explaining how to do that, what is or isn't considered "getting a permission" and many other related things, or somehow remove the names from the screen completely, just to be sure. Which I'm currently considering for tonight's R3E race (or not streaming at all or signing out and spending time elsewhere), but I can't imagine doing so for example with AMS where it might be possible to avoid showing people's names during the race (even though it means covering stuff like the leaderboard/timing), but since the names are now shown even on the game's main screen, it'd mean just blanking the whole screen numerous times during the stream/video. Same with AC.

So we're now in a Catch 22 situation here, really. I don't really even know the full extent of what's expected of me, but at the same time, I'm expected to fully comply with it. And I don't even know what will happen if my actions are deemed as a breach of the rules (and on what criteria). Will I get a race ban? Will I be banned from RD completely? Will nothing really happen, just like it was until now when people included TS?

Honestly, the easiest solution seems to stop streaming entirely, because this is a mess. At which point I might as well be looking for a different racing club, because although I am certainly pretty bad at racing, I still do enjoy my streaming quite a lot and would certainly like to continue doing it.

Martin, just do what you normally do and stream your race, honestly, no one is going to be bothered.

 

[Case_]

Martin, just do what you normally do and stream your race, honestly, no one is going to be bothered.

Not true. At least one person is guaranteed to be quite bothered by me intentionally breaking/not following the rules - me.

(So about 50 % of my viewership, in other words.)

 

[Matheus Machado]

First of all, these aren't battles for position.

Really? 5 gets less points than P4 in any race I've seen.
And following the example you mentioned you could get behind the 2-3 second guy while he overtakes the other guy and get an overtake too, but I guess he irritates the P15 guy too much because he overtook him and now he can't drive anymore.

 

[Matheus Machado]

Also, I guess it is time to delete some of the videos I have because of "real" name exposure.

And if you guys think people will stop streaming because of names, you know it is possible to hide the name overlay right?

 

[Georg Ortner]

The only places, that i know from the top of my head, where the full name is being displayed are the timing screen, and the ingame chat. You can't hide them there.

This regulation just makes streaming the races a real pain in the butt.

 

[Stephen O'Sullivan]

As long as people race as cleanly as they can - which has been the case in all RD races I've participated in - I don't have a problem with people starting at the back and racing through the field. Personally I've always enjoyed @Georg Ortner streams and feel you can learn alot about not just being fast but racing as well especially when doesn't qualify. It's obvious he does this for his own enjoyment but I've always got the impression he wants to promote r3e and the leagues like RD that use it which shouldn't be forgotten.

In one of his streams a few days ago, @Georg Ortner was singing the praises of RD's £10 membership to his (seven thousand) subscribers. I feel it would be a shame if RD lost the free publicity and communal help from his, @Martin Fiala's, and others' streams.

As for the knotty problem of streaming, how about asking RD members to tick a box/agreeing to a clause that, by taking part in a RD race, they accept the possibility of that race being streamed/recorded? A blanket acceptance would solve the problem of numerous people asking for, or giving, permission. Perhaps some races/days might be deemed "open" for recording, while others are officially "closed"?

In all the videos of RD races that I've watched, I've never felt that the streamers and/or "sandbaggers" were inconsiderate drivers: quite the opposite. But if some RD members dislike the practice of deliberately starting from the back of the grid, might it be possible to designate certain days of the week as "start where you wish" and others as "strictly qualification" only? It is a tricky situation.

 

[Mike Davies]

Im coming in late, but all i know is if you guys arent letting guys like Ortner stream then you are doing the site a massive disservice. Ortner provides a huge advertising avenue for the site, and to disallow streaming, or even disallow guys like him starting from the back, is going to directly affect how many new members you have join.

Believe me Ortner and I have had our differences, and im completely with him on this one.

 

[Matheus Machado]

The only places, that i know from the top of my head, where the full name is being displayed are the timing screen, and the ingame chat. You can't hide them there.

This regulation just makes streaming the races a real pain in the butt.

In rF2 and AC I'm pretty sure that it is possible to hide it. Kinda tough yes, but possible. Not sure about how it works in raceroom.

 

[Case_]

In rF2 and AC I'm pretty sure that it is possible to hide it. Kinda tough yes, but possible. Not sure about how it works in raceroom.

Racerooom might be the easiest, really. You just have to cover a few parts of the screen for the race, don't enable name tags and avoid getting into the race monitor and/or timing screens in the menu and you should be good to go.

Oh and once you cross the finish line, blank the screen so the results don't pop up, which obviously contain names.

That's actually what I intend to do tonight. It will look bloody stupid and I'm not sure if people will watch a race where they can't even see the relative timing of the car in front or behind me, let alone the actual results, but I guess it's doable. Not sure if worth the hassle, but at least doable.

With AC or AMS, I can't imagine doing something like this, given that the names get almost unavoidably shown even at the main screen of the game, and for example going from the main screen to setup screen and back would require you to constantly be switching back and forth between blank screen and the actual game, at least if you want to show what you're doing on the setup screen.

 

[Patrick Fournier]

So it's not ok for people to stream their races but RD can stream and/or put the videos on Youtube later whenever they want without asking for permission? That's insane.

 

[Ken Hunter]

Hell guys, where are we now going with this. The main issue originally was of "sandbagging" and now everyone is all upset and sensitive about streaming or not to stream. This my dear friends, has turned into a very childish discussion and really nothing to do with RD. RD did not do the sandbagging bit, you as drivers did!

 

[Yetch]

Not true. At least one person is guaranteed to be quite bothered by me intentionally breaking/not following the rules - me.

(So about 50 % of my viewership, in other words.)

The missus still watches then!

 

[Matheus Machado]

This my dear friends, has turned into a very childish discussion and really nothing to do with RD. RD did not do the sandbagging bit, you as drivers did!

So most of the topic is about arguments on why "sandbagging" isn't wrong and it araised a issue of one individual which had a detrimental effect to the whole community of streamers labeled as childish discussion just because it goes against what RD (suddenly) thinks is right.

Not to mention the topic is completely related to the issue OP had.

 

[Matheus Machado]

Racerooom might be the easiest, really. You just have to cover a few parts of the screen for the race, don't enable name tags and avoid getting into the race monitor and/or timing screens in the menu and you should be good to go.

Oh and once you cross the finish line, blank the screen so the results don't pop up, which obviously contain names.

That's actually what I intend to do tonight. It will look bloody stupid and I'm not sure if people will watch a race where they can't even see the relative timing of the car in front or behind me, let alone the actual results, but I guess it's doable. Not sure if worth the hassle, but at least doable.

With AC or AMS, I can't imagine doing something like this, given that the names get almost unavoidably shown even at the main screen of the game, and for example going from the main screen to setup screen and back would require you to constantly be switching back and forth between blank screen and the actual game, at least if you want to show what you're doing on the setup screen.

Not defending the new rule in any way. Pretty much the opposite. Jsut stated alternatives for those tough souls who still want to do streams.