Dispensing with the sandbags.

[Lars Hansen]

I'm not entirely sure how to do this politely, to be honest.
Then again, I'm not racing much these days due to time-constraints, so I don't have any particular personal stake in it.
So I'm just going to state a personal opinion, and people can take it for whatever they like.

But can we please get people to stop sandbagging during qualification in the Club races?
I'm not out to start a witch-hunt, so I'm not naming any names. This is simply a general observation.
I started noticing it a few months ago, and now it's becoming just blatantly obvious.
I get that it's a way to challenge yourself against what might be a weaker field, and if you have a YT channel, I'm sure it makes for exhilarating viewing for your followers.

Unfortunately, it also means that you regard the rest of the Club racers as nothing more than cannon-fodder, which is not only f*cking annoying, it's also arrogant to the point of contempt.
Besides, you're not fooling anybody. Once you've raced against the same people 3-4 times you get a pretty good idea of their pace, which means that now you have a bunch of people in front of you who know they'll have to let you through at some point. And if some of these people are newcomers or simply less experienced, you've just increased the chances of a racing incident manifold, for no reason whatsoever.

You wouldn't do it if this was a league-race.
You wouldn't do it if there was a MP ranking-system in place.
So pretty please, with sugar on top.......

<mod-edit: removed foul language>

 

[Denis Betty]

And the vast majority of them do, and the few that don't would not change their behavior based on where they start from anyway. As was already said many times on both sides.

This whole discussion is just based on a "guilty until proven innocent" (with very little emphasis on the proving part). Why assume everyone who is fast is also an inconsiderate driver?

I'm not pointing the finger at anybody. Nowhere in my post do I claim that all drivers who start from the back, cause problems. Let alone that all quick drivers are inconsiderate. I hope you weren't paraphrasing me there. Misquoting people like that, only serves to muddy the waters. It can cause offence too, if I'm completely honest.
I have a buddy who starts from the back and always is a perfect gent about it. There is no issue with that. But there are guys that do it in a very aggressive way - there just are, I've had them do it to me. Myself and others who have mentioned this aren't making it up Martin. Your assertion that aggressive drivers wont change their behaviour based on starting position, is another matter. Do you have some evidence to back this claim up? Do you have 1st hand experience of this? If they're doing it to quicker guys, how come the quicker guys never complain? Maybe they do, I don't know, but not in any post I've ever read.

 

[Case_]

Nowhere in my post do I claim that all drivers who start from the back, cause problems. Let alone that all quick drivers are inconsiderate.

No, you didn't literally claim this. No-one in this discussion have, really. But many have implied it based on what they've said.

As for "misquoting", I wasn't quoting anyone, so I can hardly be guilty of misquoting in the first place.

But there are guys that do it in a very aggressive way - there just are, I've had them do it to me.

My point exactly. Thank you. Yes, "there are *guys* that do it". You are exactly correct.

Your assertion that aggressive drivers wont change their behaviour based on starting position, is another matter. Do you have some evidence to back this claim up? Do you have 1st hand experience of this?

Not sure what evidence you expect on something like that. No I haven't been following all of the fast guys, collecting evidence on their driving so I could now present it to you.

As for first-hand experience - yes, that I do have. As someone who races fairly often and is fairly slow, I've been passed countless times by the fast guys. Some did it safely and were considerate, some were not. Many of those have sometimes started from the back or I have found myself in front of them on the grid through one way or another - and, unsuprisingly, their approach to passing slower cars has not changed - the safe and considerate ones were still safe and considerate, and the inconsiderate were still inconsiderate.

That's my first-hand experience and my evidence. It is anecdotal, yes.

 

[Denis Betty]

Ok, I can't make head or tail of your argument. We agree that the aggression goes on and that it's not nice when it happens to us. I never said anything about everybody who starts from the back. You quoted me and shortly afterwards you posted this.

This whole discussion is just based on a "guilty until proven innocent" (with very little emphasis on the proving part). Why assume everyone who is fast is also an inconsiderate driver?

The inference, it seemed to me, was that I'm part of some witch hunt, because I asked people to have empathy, take more care, etc. I don't see any finger pointing or any witch hunt or any guilt/blame being apportioned, from me, or from anybody else. I think you just made that part up.

 

[Case_]

But you know what, nevermind. Sorry, I shouldn't have even responded to this discussion again in the first place. It's not going to change anything anyway except making myself even more depressed about all this and more people considering me an annoying idiot who always argues about anything just for the sake of arguing. Just because I feel like I have something to say and perhaps even something I feel *should* be said doesn't still mean I should actually do it.

So I apologize for doing so, and I'm out even from this part of the discussion.

 

[jimortality]

But you know what, nevermind. Sorry, I shouldn't have even responded to this discussion again in the first place. It's not going to change anything anyway except making myself even more depressed about all this and more people considering me an annoying idiot who always argues about anything just for the sake of arguing. Just because I feel like I have something to say and perhaps even something I feel *should* be said doesn't still mean I should actually do it.

So I apologize for doing so, and I'm out even from this part of the discussion.

Good, hope you mean it.

 

[Case_]

Love you too.