Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[nolive721]

reminder I am in Japan, amps are specific to the local market

my DAYTON pucs are rated at 8Ohm impedance and the Onkyo can handle anything from 6 to 16Ohm (spec in Japanese below)

スピーカー適応インピーダンス 6～16Ω（フロントL/R&センター&サラウンドL/R）、
3Ω（サブウーファー）

the choice I have made for this amp (2nd hand by the way, equivalent of 60USD, I am not breaking the bank) is to be able to output the game telemetry to 4 pucs and maybe another one I am considering to place somewhere on my rig so 5 in total since the sub channel cant be used for the tactile output intent

And of course I bought this single amp to optimize/simplify devices and cables management, didnt want to add another 2.1 amp and external PSU for example

I know you are suspicious but VMB in combination with Simhub has in my views what it takes to send the input that the amp can decode for tactile output through the pucs focusing on low frequencies I need

I have managed to achieve this through a 2.1 amp and 2pucs, I dont see a problem to do that with 4pucs and a 5.1 amp

I am back from vacation this Sunday and if the amp arrived, will try to test before my next 2 trips oversea and will share on your thread or open my own if that discussion is becoming too much controversial

 

[Mr Latte]

@nolive721
The amp you have purchased is limited to working only with the 8ohm/16ohm pucs. The vast majority of tactile use either 4ohm or 2ohm. Yes, In your case you are fine with this and the units you have but we have to be careful to highlight these factors for others that buying an amp that only supports 6ohm and up is not suited to running multiple 4ohm tactile which may be what they own or intend to buy.

VMB
I have asked twice already for @asteroulis or someone to show more in detail for what VMB can achieve. If it helps people and that's what they want to try or do, then great. There is nothing wrong with that, even if I have my own preferences or methods for my own rig configuration. It would be good to see and for others also to learn more in how they go about using or configuring VMB for their tactile.

Now, back to your amp....
To properly use 4x independent tactile requires the front (Green) and rear stereo (Black) channels of the soundcard to be connected. Then the amp keeps these separated as individual channels. Would you please show people here how you are going to connect these or get 4 channel tactile with your amp?

 

[asteroulis]

VMB
I have asked twice already for @asteroulis or someone to show more in detail for what VMB can achieve. If it helps people and that's what they want to try or do, then great. There is nothing wrong with that, even if I have my own preferences or methods for my own rig configuration. It would be good to see and for others also to learn more in how they go about using or configuring VMB for their tactile.

I have it on my todo list Mr.Latte but no time at all right now. Lot's of RL stuff going on..

 

[Mr Latte]

Heres my to-do list:

Behringer X18 X AIR Digital iPad/Tablet Mixer

Come Home To Daddy!!!
Waited two years to get this....


18x Inputs, Controlling & Monitoring For:
4x Directional Channels (Outer Chassis Tactile)
4x Non Directional Channels Front/Rear (Inner Chassis Tactile)
4x Surround Audio (Outer Chassis Tactile / Mix)
6x Specific Role Channels (Seat / Exciters)

 

[Mr Latte]

How to spend 20Hrs+ experimenting and building effects for the best RPM sensations.
This is now being shared on the Simhub Discord Server.

Thanks once again to @Wotever for his software and making things possible.

 

[anton_Chez]

Just before I hit the sack, anyone else having troubles selecting newly imported profiles? It never lets me select them although they are in the list. It just goes back to the latest one that was allowed to be selected. Not sure if a bug or something I'm doing wrong.

 

[Mr Latte]

Just before I hit the sack, anyone else having troubles selecting newly imported profiles? It never lets me select them although they are in the list. It just goes back to the latest one that was allowed to be selected. Not sure if a bug or something I'm doing wrong.

Once imported try the LOAD feature.
There may be some issues with profiles and peoples different configs, not sure if this has bug. Sometimes an error message can appear when trying to import/load other peoples created profiles. It's maybe something for the developer to answer better on the Discord Server.

 

[Wotever]

Just before I hit the sack, anyone else having troubles selecting newly imported profiles? It never lets me select them although they are in the list. It just goes back to the latest one that was allowed to be selected. Not sure if a bug or something I'm doing wrong.

Hi ! I checked after receiving the notification, indeed, there is an issue when importing many times the same profile (create a profile and import it as a copy) I'll fix that

 

[xeek]

Hello,

anyone here who got the SimRacingStudio Shake Box Elite?

I would prefer a one in a Box Solution over multiple amps and all the cables lying around.
Also thinking about their WindSim so having all in one Software is nice I guess.

I'm thinking about getting the Box and use it with 4 Buttkicker Mini LFE for Chassis Mode, but not sure how much the Software is behind SimVibe, or if the amp/soundcard solution is any good.

Thanks

 

[boern69]

How to spend 20Hrs+ experimenting and building effects for the best RPM sensations.
This is now being shared on the Simhub Discord Server.

Thanks once again to @Wotever for his software and making things possible.

View attachment 304505

This looks awesome ! Keep up the work

LINK PLZ

 

[dedraro]

Hey Mr. Latte, I have questions for you (more than one to tell the truth)
These days I'm thinking of fixing my system, at the moment I have 4 BassPump III at 8ohm with thomann E-400 and 4 mini LFE at 8ohm buttkicker always with thomann E-400 (I also bought 2 LFE Concert, which I will mount in the future).
I use the SFX-100, so I only use them for Shifter, Rpm, and high curbs in SimVibe, but I'm thinking of switching to Shakeit, as I already use it for the Wind Simulator.
Now my doubt is this, I want to replace the Thomann E-400 that I use with the 4 mini LFEs, since even at max it can't handle all 4 I feel they can give more.
I wanted to get another amp, but I don't know if I should go with the Behringer NX1000D, which would still suffer from running 4 mini LFEs at 8ohm, take a Behringer NX3000D which is a bit over budget, or go on something without DSP like the Thomann E-800, what do you think?
Then for the 2 Concerts, I think I'll take a Behringer NX3000, do you think it's okay? Thanks a lot

 

[Mr Latte]

Hey Mr. Latte, I have questions for you (more than one to tell the truth)
These days I'm thinking of fixing my system, at the moment I have 4 BassPump III at 8ohm with thomann E-400 and 4 mini LFE at 8ohm buttkicker always with thomann E-400 (I also bought 2 LFE Concert, which I will mount in the future).
I use the SFX-100, so I only use them for Shifter, Rpm, and high curbs in SimVibe, but I'm thinking of switching to Shakeit, as I already use it for the Wind Simulator.
Now my doubt is this, I want to replace the Thomann E-400 that I use with the 4 mini LFEs, since even at max it can't handle all 4 I feel they can give more.
I wanted to get another amp, but I don't know if I should go with the Behringer NX1000D, which would still suffer from running 4 mini LFEs at 8ohm, take a Behringer NX3000D which is a bit over budget, or go on something without DSP like the Thomann E-800, what do you think?
Then for the 2 Concerts, I think I'll take a Behringer NX3000, do you think it's okay? Thanks a lot

SFX & Tactile
I sought after people to discuss the good/bad and try to learn what SFX can accomplish and do well regards its own "tactile" abilities. It got ignored by several SFX owners on the forums which is rather disappointing. Nobody has went into depth about its tuning abilities for how a user can configure or tune the "tactile" it can output. I would welcome someone like yourself to go through it in more detail. The thread is probably still sinking...

I don't question SFXs own tactile energy as this can be crazy. I query, how we can best tune and configure it. Or how we best combine what it does with good quality or high-end transducers or shakers. I disagreed with early comments shared by people on i-racing that it could replace typical tactile, such was the hype at the time. I know my own build in time will encompass both and maybe I will just have to wait to I have such that I can begin to see for myself what or how each can be best matched together.

Confirm:
Base Pump 3 & BK Mini LFE are 4ohm and not 8ohm units.
Do you have them wired together?

Amp
For amps, the Behringer NX D series, in my opinion, is the best to buy for tactile at their price. Look, if you want to get serious about it then buy the better product, hold off a little longer or whatever if it's beyond the current budget. The only drawback I see with these amps is the fan noise (not sure if new models have noisy fan still) but it is easily replaced as these forums showed with the iNuke series. The DSP versions are not a massive price difference I would advise you to get a 3000 unit for the Concerts, but ahhh, would you consider the option below....


iPad & All That Stuff
I have been pursuing this type of option....
In recent years what this can now offer is quite astounding as many musicians and music creators have come out with apps and it has opened up new possibilities. It also can be set up and configured in minutes.

It is possible to have controls (shown recently) that would let a user apply EQ/Crossover and do much more even than what Behringer or other amps DSP brings. The user can then use standard amps without DSP. I have yet to see what VMB can do and how well or easy it compares but look forward to people showcasing it. For me,it's not the best route or option, so I went this path as I want the best options/methods.

So this approach has the audio go into an affordable multichannel hardware interface - iPad - amp and brings all the control via an iPad or as highlighted via a cheap programmable midi controller for all your channels. The interfaces come in different prices, depends how many channels you need it to handle. What it would bring is a very nice way to control things and have it at easy reach via sliders or control knobs. The learning curve for this is easy, trust me. Although this will only appeal to those seeking more professional installations but I find it interesting as an option. It also means you do not have to configure each amps DSP separately for the units it is powering. AUM and other tools for iPad are just awesome but with the simple user setup expected with a tablet.

Software:
Shakeit is the way forward simply because its already quite amazing and its developer listens to the community. He already has and will bring more features that the community wants and when every new title comes out it gets support or updated. I personally have donated more than once to its developer and will donate again as on more than one occasion he has implemented suggestions I wanted and also others have had. It's like SFX in that it is community-based and community focused. Not driven by commercial or profit based decisions/goals.

I am currently looking at taking Engine/RPM effects beyond what any other software offers as it is an effect lots of people seem to enjoy but also quite a time-consuming but technical challenge developing different or really lively engine effects. Progress is being made with the help of others....

 

[Mr Latte]

This looks awesome ! Keep up the work

LINK PLZ

Click on the bottom right of Simhub to goto the Discord Server, then see discussion for Bass Shakers.
It would be good to have more feedback from people over there.

 

[Dan Costa]

This weekend I have combined telemetry (simhub) + Audio (>200hz) and I agree with @Mr Latte.

The audio feed gave me much improved feedback compared to just telemetry. With telemetry only, some kerbs would make a strong rumble sound but would not shake. Now I have one dedicated shaker being fed by audio bass frequencies, and the rumble sound is accompanied by the shaker working very well.

I have no mixing or layering. Just a simple Y cable on the subwoofer receiving the game audio, and splitting it to a separate AV-received connected to a shaker on my seat. great stuff.

So now instead of 5 shakers on my seat connected to telemetry (simhub), I have 4 with telemetry and 1 with audio.

 

[Mr Latte]

This weekend I have combined telemetry (simhub) + Audio (>200hz) and I agree with @Mr Latte.

The audio feed gave me much improved feedback compared to just telemetry. With telemetry only, some kerbs would make a strong rumble sound but would not shake. Now I have one dedicated shaker being fed by audio bass frequencies, and the rumble sound is accompanied by the shaker working very well.

I have no mixing or layering. Just a simple Y cable on the subwoofer receiving the game audio, and splitting it to a separate AV-received connected to a shaker on my seat. great stuff.

So now instead of 5 shakers on my seat connected to telemetry (simhub), I have 4 with telemetry and 1 with audio.

Ahh cheers, well you see what happens when you try these things
I think it can indeed richen the immersion when both are used properly.

I will use (stereo front & stereo rear) "Quad Surround" for audio based tactile.

If you add a second unit for the seat with stereo out (not sub) what it will do is also greatly improve your stereo placement for curbs, for (left) or (right) wheels and in some cases you can even feel other cars (depends on their engine audio and volume set) as you pass them or they pass you. This also something telemetry won't do.

Keep enjoying the tactile....

 

[Dan Costa]

Ahh cheers, well you see what happens when you try these things
I think it can indeed richen the immersion when both are used properly.

I will use (stereo front & stereo rear) "Quad Surround" for audio based tactile.

If you add a second unit for the seat what it will do is also greatly improve your stereo placement for curbs, and in some cases even feel other cars (depends on their engine audio and volume set) as you pass them or they pass you.

Yes its awesome, it adds so much more detail. My single "audio" shaker is on the middle of my backsteat, it shakes the entire chair evenly but only "reports" to the sub 200hz from the actual subwoofer audio. To have seperation I would need to duplicate the game audio into another soundcard and feed the direct audio to the Av receiver. I suppose in that case I would need to filter frequencies using software.

still its pretty crazy what those cheap 15€ 100w rockwood shakers can do.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes its awesome, it adds so much more detail. My single "audio" shaker is on the middle of my backsteat, it shakes the entire chair evenly but only "reports" to the sub 200hz from the actual subwoofer audio. To have seperation I would need to duplicate the game audio into another soundcard and feed the direct audio to the Av receiver. I suppose in that case I would need to filter frequencies using software.

still its pretty crazy what those cheap 15€ 100w rockwood shakers can do.

Not tried one but it looks like another I have and well with it tbh I preferred the exciters I have been recommending. Can you try that unit you have with frequency tests from 80-200Hz for me. This may be where the exciters pull out an advantage.

 

[Dan Costa]

What are they supposed to sound like between those frequencies?

These accept the higher frequencies and start sounding more like regular speakers in frequencies near 200hz. I can feel those higher frequencies passing to the chair. Its really uncomfortable lol

They suck bellow ~37hz. No activity whatsoever bellow 30hz. Best between 39~44hz.

 

[Mr Latte]

What are they supposed to sound like between those frequencies?

These accept the higher frequencies and start sounding more like regular speakers in frequencies near 200hz. I can feel those higher frequencies passing to the chair. Its really uncomfortable lol

They suck bellow ~37hz. No activity whatsoever bellow 30hz. Best between 39~44hz.

Let me know the highest Hz you can feel nice with them.
40-45Hz as always a general peak frequency on most units.
The more frequency range you can use, then the more variation and feel we can accomplish from units.

 

[Dan Costa]

they feel very tactile up to about 100hz (while sitting in the chair).

Edit: there is a cutoff shortly above 100hz, That must be my crossover filter limit.