Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[RCHeliguy]

FWIW my NLRv3 profiles for track use pretty well turned off the fore/aft motion under acceleration and braking because I didn't like how that felt, but it was still moving around. I liked the G-Belt seat belt tension MUCH better.

In Rally when you are being thrown around more, the motion actually fit right in with the rest of the motion queues was perfectly fine.

I'm going to be very curious to see how my D-Box handles Rally. The NLRv3 actually handled Rally very well.

Heave is something I'm very curious about. I suspect that heave can add a lot of feeling without being disruptive.

I'm also looking forward to feeling the whole chassis pitch change under braking combined with the G-Belt. I think they will complement each other well. I look forward to finding out.

 

[MarkModdy]

I think it going to be amazing when paired with g belts and tactile (both d box tactile and your other tactile units too)!

 

[MarkModdy]

I can imagine the action of the belts will be so good when applied during the d box movement… they are superb on a motionless rig… but I bet when applying supporting forces that back up what the motion is doing it will be on another level! (Hopefully )

 

[NetLawMan]

My main question is which effects do you think would be a good supplement?

For example, here are the list of effects I use to simulate various elements of the driving experience:

Speed - motionhouse/srs wind system

Gforces - gseat and gbelt

Braking/acceleration/cornering - motion system, gseat and gbelt

Suspension/car movement and skidding - motion system

Car oscillations by engine (example - damaged car limping forward and ratcheting/shaking in DR 2.0) - motion system

Environmental (road pitch/angle) - motion system

Car sliding (in snow) - silence of motion system

Wheel slip/lock and abs/tcs (not all at once) - motion system and Sim3D pedal rumblers

Vibration to supplement car movement and shaking due to gear shifts, road texture and engine vibration - motion system plus car specific soundtrack (via TST)

I presume you would only target the last item for a Customer like me (I.e., Customer Category 3) If so how complex would it be to install it, both hardware and software? In addition, how complex would it be to operate it (what I have to go on the same hub and select settings for every game/car/truck)?

Where “Premium” tactile conflicts with motion:

It seems isolating sections of a rig are necessary for Premium Tactile. The issue is that it seems that very effort compromises motion by damping movement effects. Maybe that isn’t the case if you are only focused on the last item and don’t need to isolate anything?

Reminder about my experience with haptics (somewhere between standard and Premium):

I did have four-point TST, and then front $ back TST in the past before I expanded to other systems on my rig (like motion). My experience was that you can really only feel 1 to 2 affects at any given time when relying on tactile for the majority of the experiences, especially as all of the affects go through your seat and your pedal plate, and sooner or later they begin colliding on with one another. I suppose you could

In addition, I hit sensory overload with tactile trying to replicate multiple experiences that would normally be “sensed” by different Body sensor use.

I'm posting my full results in my build thread, but for the next few days I'm running without motion.

For track use, I actually felt more in control without motion, yet felt fully immersed because of tactile. Sure I wasn't getting popped when I hit an angled rumble strip and wasn't swaying in the turns, but I didn't miss that.

I can't tell you how much of that is because of having a seat mover vs. having my seat more solidly mounted to the chassis.

I'm also hopeful that the D-Box's heave will add something new to the equation, so fingers crossed. It's also possible that the other motion will feel more natural with the entire chassis moving vs. just the seat.

I'm going to test Rally next, but I think I already know the answer to that question. I remember it feeling night and day in Rally when I added motion.

let me know if you have any questions about dialing dbox in. I have found sometimes I reduce left and right. Depending upon the weight of you and the rig, you may up the power for the various movements. I think the two best showcase games are ACC and DR 2.0

 

[RCHeliguy]

I play iRacing, DR 2.0, and RBR mostly.

I promise you that I will give the D-Box haptics a going through. I'm hoping that I can use some of those effects and that some of them offer an improvement over tactile.

However, based on the feedback I've gotten from other D-Box users who added Race Bass tactile systems after the fact, the D-Box haptic engine effect doesn't compare well. I haven't gotten a blow by blow on all the other effects.

So I'm not expecting that I'll be able to keep the haptic engine effect now that I've been spoiled by what that can be. If you read the other motion thread. One D-Box user was complaining of the lack of control over the D-Box Haptic gear shift effect. I can tell you that I currently have 5 different gear shift effects to pick from and like a real car the upshift and downshift feel different and are optimized and spread out over multiple transducers. To be fair this particular complaint sounds like a bug that D-Box may fix in a future release.

As far as being able to feel multiple effects in tactile that depends on having a wide range of frequencies and multiple transducers to spread the effects over.

I currently get a very strong sensation of speed, RPM, rumble strips, gear shifts road texture etc.

I'll evaluate each effect individually between the systems and happily point out where each shines. I'm sure the D-Box system has some effects that work well. My intent is not to trash their efforts at haptics. I will leverage anything they can give me that works well or is better than what I have.

I also don't consider either tactile or what D-Box comes up with to be in final form. I'm sure that D-Box will improve things over time and I'm sure tactile effects will get better. This is all good!

 

[RCHeliguy]

FYI just ran through Dirty Rally 2.0 without motion.

Once again I definitely felt like I had more control and I was besting my course times everywhere. I assume either having a fixed seat or less distractions was the reason. Of course I'm still loving my new Ultimate+ pedals.

As for immersion, Rally without motion wasn't very enjoyable for me. I would rank it a fail. I can no longer imagine playing rally games without motion. I won't be spending more time with Rally until my D-Box gets here.

 

[Mr Latte]

It's your decision of course my friend what you do and where you write about your experiences. I think it deserves both a general perspective/overview but also has the potential to be a topic on its own.

What do others think?

I say this, because, certainly on these forums, more time has been spent arguing about motion/tactile than getting owners of it to try and work on learning what the REAL pros/cons are and how to then combine both better together.

Some perhaps are stuck in their own experiences with tactile for instance as to what the potential with it really is. They are certainly not able to see the same perspective on things.

Perceptions
Karl Gross with his own YT channel is one recent example reviewing a motion system. Clearly promoting the product's abilities/features but expressing to his viewers, that additional tactile is just not needed.

Like others before him too, or another example was with owners that bought into SFX. They appear to base these opinions on the common perspective of previously owning/experiencing typical budget tactile performance options, which they had installed. Then using on those rather basic effects.

The problem is, they miss or do not take into account what the true potential with tactile can perhaps be. I think this is a fair assessment.

Regards different motion rigs, with different Haptics.

I have not seen a great deal of feedback from people to determine what possible issues there are. For instance, is timing/output when effects are felt something that is noticeable? Do we need to apply some delay within the seat tactile, what happens if we do with certain effects layers?

Several motion rigs already output very powerful bumps and are enjoyable with haptics. Yet that type of effect alone, we do not know what the frequencies are at play here, because it seems nobody has looked that deeply into this.

My Perspective
For me, this does not necessarily mean we cannot apply additional sensations to the seat/pedals that extend or harmonically match those vibrations the motion generates in that example scenario or with others.

To apply Simhubs options/potential over hardware recommendations we know to work well and these become an extension to enrichen those motion haptics.

Can we bring additional higher frequency detailing/warmth or extended character for motion haptics? Why not, but several things could be tried, it's just about being creative and firstly better understanding what the haptics from the motion themselves are first doing.

THESE are certainly some aspects I have not seen people consider or try to accomplish. Again let me emphasize, that too much focus is put on Tactile Vs Motion or misunderstanding what the full potential (advanced tactile) with (more advanced effects) has over the commonly experienced, previously popular configurations and typical products used.

Just an idea but that's why I think it deserves also a deeper look where you have both motion owners and tactile enthusiasts eager and willing to experiment.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Where “Premium” tactile conflicts with motion:

With regard to being a premium rig. In the D-Box area there is one VERY clear differentiator. Do you have your actuators floating ( ie. resting on separate circular pads on the floor ) or are your actuator feet captive and anchored to the floor?

If you saw GamerMuscles video, it was obvious that all the D-Box systems shown were captive and had numerous bolts going into a thick metal frame to secure them.

Why I ask is that without anchoring, the D-Box frequencies your rig is capable of are limited by gravity's ability to accelerate your rig down. If the actuators vibrate any faster than that, they would simply lift off the floor since they are unable to drop the rig fast enough for that frequency.

FYI, my actuators will be floating at least initially.

 

[NetLawMan]

With regard to being a premium rig. In the D-Box area there is one VERY clear differentiator. Do you have your actuators floating ( ie. resting on separate circular pads on the floor ) or are your actuator feet captive and anchored to the floor?

If you saw GamerMuscles video, it was obvious that all the D-Box systems shown were captive and had numerous bolts going into the floor to secure them.

Why I ask is that without anchoring, the D-Box frequencies your rig is capable of are limited by gravity's ability to accelerate your rig down. If the actuators vibrate any faster than that, they would simply lift off the floor since they are unable to drop the rig fast enough for that frequency.

FYI, my actuators will be floating at least initially.

Hi. I don’t use the captive feet. The actuators rest in the non-capacitive squares in the provided circular pucks. There is cement slab underneath the floor. However because the floor is unfortunately uneven, I use hard cork squares of different thickness to keep things perfectly level.

Generally, the weight of the rig (my rig is probably 200+ pounds with gseat) and the weight of the rider are plenty to allow dbox to leverage gravity.

The one exception, is if you turn the power sliders in the D-Box software too high for the combined weight. I really do think that you have to take into account wight when using those sliders.

Unless you have really soft floors, or ultra thick carpet, I think the biggest complexity to overcome will be spring systems used to isolate portions of the rig for the benefit of tactile. Because in doing their job properly, they will dampen the movement and high frequency vibrations coming from the actuators.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Generally, the weight of the rig (my rig is probably 200+ pounds with gseat) and the weight of the rider are plenty to allow dbox to leverage gravity.

I don't want to be overly pedantic, but just wanted to remind you that the weight of the rig and rider won't make any difference to how gravity affects it as it will always be 9.8m/s^2 (assuming your rig is not paper light so that air resistance starts becomes a factor)

 

[NetLawMan]

I don't want to be overly pedantic, but just wanted to remind you that the weight of the rig and rider won't make any difference to how gravity affects it as it will always be 9.8m/s^2 (assuming your rig is not paper light so that air resistance starts becomes a factor)

No one is falling through the air. we are talking about force (including simulated effects of gravity). Weight has an effect on how much power is needed to move everything up and down

 

[RCHeliguy]

I don't want to be overly pedantic, but just wanted to remind you that the weight of the rig and rider won't make any difference to how gravity affects it as it will always be 9.8m/s^2 (assuming your rig is not paper light so that air resistance starts becomes a factor)

There is a good reason that Vesaro has heavy steel frames under their rigs with the actuators captive.

The weight of the frame helps ground the actuators a little, but more importantly it looks fairly rigid and since there is typically force being applied by other actuators to push against it would make a substantial difference in what you are able to do especially with tactile.

Unfortunately based on his last reply he doesn't understand the concept of how the accelerative force of gravity is integral to how the D-Box can operate with non-captive actuators. It is critical to their operation and the limitation that they have to operate within.

Once you secure the actuator feet, then the actuator can actually pull the rig down. I would liken this to pedaling a bicycle without clips or cleats. When you can push only, you lose a portion of the cycle where you could pull back and up if your feet are locked to the pedals.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

No one is falling through the air.

well, if your actuators retract faster than 9.8m/s^2, then that is exactly what will happen as gravity won't be able to keep up with it. I'm not quite sure of how this would manifest itself in the experience as I don't have one to play with, but I'd expect it would induce a bit of audible and tactile noise when the feet finally contact the ground.

 

[RCHeliguy]

No one is falling through the air. we are talking about force (including simulated effects of gravity). Weight has an effect on how much power is needed to move everything up and down

You are almost half right.

f = ma

Weight has an effect on how much force the actuator needs to lift the chassis with. Weight = Mass x gravity so gravity is still involved, but weight is the force that you are pushing against starting from a static position

When dropping the chassis, the weight doesn't make one bit of difference to the force exerted except in terms of friction on the threads.

Starting from a static position as long as the actuator is dropping the chassis slower than it would accelerate without support, all is good and the actuator feet stay planted. If starting from a static position the actuator tries to drop the chassis faster than 1g, it would lift the leg off the floor. So that would seem to be plenty fast enough, right? You should never accelerate faster than 1g in real life, correct?

Unfortunately there is also momentum to contend with and that is where the mass of your rig comes into play in both directions equally up and down and fights you all the way. Momentum does NOT want you to change directions quickly.

p = mv

If you accelerate your chassis at 1g going upwards and then change direction, your chassis doesn't change direction immediately, first you need to lose that momentum before it can make the return trip down. It also means that you can lift a leg when dropping slower than 1g.

This is much easier at lower frequencies. At higher frequencies it become nearly impossible.

It actually gets more complicated than this because you have 4 actuators moving independently and this is why havening the actuator feet captive should have a major impact on how well the system works.

With the feet just sitting on the floor the actuators can only use their power to push, they have ZERO ability to pull. This very effectively reduces what they are capable of.

Since my D-Box's feet will also not be captive, I'm relying on the fact that D-Box has a lot of experience with their software to make the most of this bad situation the actuators are typically in where they can't pull back down and can simply unwind.

From a physics standpoint adding tactile to captive localized areas of your rig that have lower mass, is more achievable. My transducers are able to pull and push as hard as they can at whatever frequency they are capable of moving.

If you like what you have with your D-Box now, I bet you would like it even more if you had captive actuator feet.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Unfortunately there is also momentum to contend with and that is where the mass of your rig comes into play in both directions equally up and down and fights you all the way. Momentum does NOT want you to change directions quickly.

Apologies as this is probably way off topic now, but does the D-box software allow you to compensate for this kind of scenario? I guess it should already be able to calculate the momentum from the sensors

 

[RCHeliguy]

Apologies as this is probably way off topic now, but does the D-box software allow you to compensate for this

There are a lot of adjustments that I haven't dug into yet, but I've been told it shouldn't take me long to get the motion dialed in well enough to enjoy. At the end of the week, I will know more.

Someone else should field this question.

 

[Mr Latte]

Regards D-Box haptics.

Even on a standard installations with no other isolation for seat/pedals sections.

The advice I would give is to not just rely on specifications that state it supports upto @100Hz.

I have never seen showcased methods by owners or indeed reviewers, seeking to determine from that range the following:

A) What are the best-felt frequencies it outputs?

B) As higher frequencies have much less energy/bandwidth.
It is possible those above @80Hz may not be felt that well or add much in felt benefits, instead only vaguely noticeable.

C) Who or when will someone, give more insight into the effects D-Box has.

For example, what are the best-felt rpm with the engine?
What are the frequencies it is generating at its best?

What are the rpm that the felt sensation drops off?
What are the frequencies it is generating when the felt detail begins to decrease?

We have to factor in that, the distance from the actuator to that of the seat/pedals. Also taking into account different materials and installations.

These may have some bearing on what actual frequencies a D-Box really is delivering that are most enjoyed.

Also no indications whatsoever if effects use many variations with the frequencies they output. Or how the system actually deals with mono-based effects and positional-based effects.

I went to the bother of showing this to highlight frequencies and bandwidth ranges. People can get a nice visualisation of the size of the boxes and how one relates to the other.

For D-Box we need to determine what is shown here below. What its general felt range is, what its best felt or peak range is?

This also highlights how much a budget tactile system lacks in comparison to the possibilities and potential advanced tactile can deliver.



* Take note of the size of the grid boxes between frequencies.
Also for budget tactile owners, just look how narrow the peak frequency bandwidth is (bottom right). It is within this range most of you with budget/entry-level hardware try to use for experiencing the (most punch) for multiple effects. Compare that to the combined size of the large BK and TST.

The thinner/narrower the box segments become the harder it would be to feel them from further distances or potentially through different materials. Just look how thin 70-80-90-100 are.

This is one reason why exciters and tst units placed more directly to seat supports or seat body will deliver much better the finer details the higher frequencies use. Also most of the budget transducers are not that good above 80Hz so we find the TST and EXC models superb for these duties.

People will use test tones to test individual frequencies and determine from that they offer very little.

Higher octaves and harmonics are not about an individual or pure tone. They are about inserting/adding extra detail, warmth, audible character and richness when used with other lower frequencies. Applying with effects creation options to produce a more musical approach and provide the best-suited hardware with an installation method to best deliver it.

If it was discovered what frequencies D-Box used, it could be possible if desired to supplement what is being lost from the D-Box felt output. Not only to replace this with Simhub effects delivering suitable frequencies but potentially even better performance with the recommended hardware possibilities that have been tried and tested.

Become creative or don't bother!

While a potential factor, before stating that having additional isolation may be a drawback for those with additional tactile hardware.

I would advise people to determine the above on standard installations and then from that people with installed isolation can compare. That way you will at least discover what frequencies are making it through from the effects the motion haptics offers.

As I have highlighted if we learn what it uses for specific effects, then it is also possible to have additional tactile use Simhub-based effects that work in conjunction with it. Nobody it seems has tried.

In some scenarios like engines, I do not expect the D-Box will come close to what the potential is with what can be done in Simhub.

Positional-based effects and the energy it can produce with these are the effects that will likely stand out.

Yet we still do not have confirmation regards mono-based effects and positional-based effects on how D-Box deploys these.

Are they 4 way independent, front/back stereo based or left/right stereo based or the average of 4-way telemetry output as a single channel and then this sent to each actuator?

Much to discover before you can really seriously seek to determine how to best incorporate advanced tactile with the motion haptics.

 

[NetLawMan]

You are almost half right.

f = m

Weight has an effect on how much force the actuator needs to lift the chassis with. Weight = Mass x gravity so gravity is still involved, but weight is the force that you are pushing against starting from a static position

When dropping the chassis, the weight doesn't make one bit of difference to the force exerted except in terms of friction on the threads.

Starting from a static position as long as the actuator is dropping the chassis slower than it would accelerate without support, all is good and the actuator feet stay planted. If starting from a static position the actuator tries to drop the chassis faster than 1g, it would lift the leg off the floor. So that would seem to be plenty fast enough, right? You should never accelerate faster than 1g in real life, correct?

Unfortunately there is also momentum to contend with and that is where the mass of your rig comes into play in both directions equally up and down and fights you all the way. Momentum does NOT want you to change directions quickly.

p = mv

If you accelerate your chassis at 1g going upwards and then change direction, your chassis doesn't change direction immediately, first you need to lose that momentum before it can make the return trip down. It also means that you can lift a leg when dropping slower than 1g.

This is much easier at lower frequencies. At higher frequencies it become nearly impossible.

It actually gets more complicated than this because you have 4 actuators moving independently and this is why havening the actuator feet captive should have a major impact on how well the system works.

With the feet just sitting on the floor the actuators can only use their power to push, they have ZERO ability to pull. This very effectively reduces what they are capable of.

Since my D-Box's feet will also not be captive, I'm relying on the fact that D-Box has a lot of experience with their software to make the most of this bad situation the actuators are typically in where they can't pull back down and can simply unwind.

From a physics standpoint adding tactile to captive localized areas of your rig that have lower mass, is more achievable. My transducers are able to pull and push as hard as they can at whatever frequency they are capable of moving.

If you like what you have with your D-Box now, I bet you would like it even more if you had captive actuator feet.

I might possibly like it better, but as with everything else, there is the law of diminishing returns, and there are a lot more important things for most people to consider than eeking out the last 5% of any system (including dbox) , particularly given the “last 5%” benefit is not perceivable when actually playing the game. That said, should you start non-captive and move to captive, I look forward to you thoughts (about enjoying the games and not about technical analysis though).

There is “theory” that some on this forum pontificate on and on about (regardless of whether they have actual qualifications to do so), and then there is the reality of just using these systems, which is a lot simpler and enjoyable.

Also, rig weight absolutely is a major factor that determines the performance of the actuators. They have a max capacity after which performance diminishes above that. It should not be an issue for the dbox which has a legit 1000lb 4-actuator weight capacity and a system monitor that lets you see real-time info, including temp and errors.

Real world use has shown me that increases in intensity of the system are necessary as rider weight goes up. Moreover, having the settings too high overwhelms smaller drivers.

Regarding gravity, who really cares? . Anyone who is worrying more about gravity calculations than the fact the the very “isolation” systems that benefit premium tactile diminish the benefit of actuator-based motion is likely to report back that they don’t like actuator based haptics .

I will leave the physics theory to the people who actually know for real (the companies who develop and design these systems).

Over in the dbox thread, there are more dbox reports coming in from people who previously focused on tactile only. I say the discussion is best based on actual experience.

 

[NetLawMan]

Regards D-Box haptics.

Even on a standard installations with no other isolation for seat/pedals sections.

The advice I would give is to not just rely on specifications that state it supports upto @100Hz.

I have never seen showcased methods by owners or indeed reviewers, seeking to determine from that range the following:

A) What are the best-felt frequencies it outputs?

B) As higher frequencies have much less energy/bandwidth.
It is possible those above @80Hz may not be felt that well or add much in felt benefits, instead only vaguely noticeable.

C) Who or when will someone, give more insight into the effects D-Box has.

For example, what are the best-felt rpm with the engine?
What are the frequencies it is generating at its best?

What are the rpm that the felt sensation drops off?
What are the frequencies it is generating when the felt detail begins to decrease?

We have to factor in that, the distance from the actuator to that of the seat/pedals. Also taking into account different materials and installations.

These may have some bearing on what actual frequencies a D-Box really is delivering that are most enjoyed.

Also no indications whatsoever if effects use many variations with the frequencies they output. Or how the system actually deals with mono-based effects and positional-based effects.

I went to the bother of showing this to highlight frequencies and bandwidth ranges. People can get a nice visualisation of the size of the boxes and how one relates to the other.

For D-Box we need to determine what is shown here below. What its general felt range is, what its best felt or peak range is?

This also highlights how much a budget tactile system lacks in comparison to the possibilities and potential advanced tactile can deliver.



* Take note of the size of the grid boxes between frequencies.
Also for budget tactile owners, just look how narrow the peak frequency bandwidth is (bottom right). It is within this range most of you with budget/entry-level hardware try to use for experiencing the (most punch) for multiple effects. Compare that to the combined size of the large BK and TST.

The thinner/narrower the box segments become the harder it would be to feel them from further distances or potentially through different materials. Just look how thin 70-80-90-100 are.

This is one reason why exciters and tst units placed more directly to seat supports or seat body will deliver much better the finer details the higher frequencies use. Also most of the budget transducers are not that good above 80Hz so we find the TST and EXC models superb for these duties.

People will use test tones to test individual frequencies and determine from that they offer very little.

Higher octaves and harmonics are not about an individual or pure tone. They are about inserting/adding extra detail, warmth, audible character and richness when used with other lower frequencies. Applying with effects creation options to produce a more musical approach and provide the best-suited hardware with an installation method to best deliver it.

If it was discovered what frequencies D-Box used, it could be possible if desired to supplement what is being lost from the D-Box felt output. Not only to replace this with Simhub effects delivering suitable frequencies but potentially even better performance with the recommended hardware possibilities that have been tried and tested.

Become creative or don't bother!

While a potential factor, before stating that having additional isolation may be a drawback for those with additional tactile hardware.

I would advise people to determine the above on standard installations and then from that people with installed isolation can compare. That way you will at least discover what frequencies are making it through from the effects the motion haptics offers.

As I have highlighted if we learn what it uses for specific effects, then it is also possible to have additional tactile use Simhub-based effects that work in conjunction with it. Nobody it seems has tried.

In some scenarios like engines, I do not expect the D-Box will come close to what the potential is with what can be done in Simhub.

Positional-based effects and the energy it can produce with these are the effects that will likely stand out.

Yet we still do not have confirmation regards mono-based effects and positional-based effects on how D-Box deploys these.

Are they 4 way independent, front/back stereo based or left/right stereo based or the average of 4-way telemetry output as a single channel and then this sent to each actuator?

Much to discover before you can really seriously seek to determine how to best incorporate advanced tactile with the motion haptics.

How many times do we have to bring the same ol’ minutia to the forefront - resulting in distraction . In the end, it’s what the full experience brings the driver/player. All the measuring and calculations in the world don’t matter. Plenty of player/driver opinions (recent and coming soon), which is a good thing.

 

[Mr Latte]

How many times do we have to bring the same ol’ minutia to the forefront - resulting in distraction . In the end, it’s what the full experience brings the driver/player. All the measuring and calculations in the world don’t matter. Plenty of player/driver opinions (recent and coming soon), which is a good thing.

Your the one that tried different tactile solutions and still are seeking to get something to work well?

When asked you do not seem to be able to even answer questions about how the D-Box haptics operates. On every occasion, you seem to get defensive but just can't go out of your way to actually help better understand what it does.

You have been given plenty of information on advanced tactile options or potential benefits. The least you could do is offer to help with some of the queries I asked.

It may indeed matter in knowing what D Box outputs for haptics if you want to apply additional effects from Simhub. Knowing what some of its effects use, enables us to then apply subharmonics, additional octaves, and higher frequencies with additional harmonics directly into the seat that are in line with what it already outputs. Worth a try certainly, done before, not to my knowledge.

You question Sigma repeatedly over multiple times seeking detailed info about how their own motion haptics operate and considering if that is an option to change to. I find that quite weird you seek improvements but refuse to help me seeking to help you, especially as what we can help you experience is not done by many people...

As for your TSTs you fell into the typical trap of having one single unit/model try to handle all the frequencies the effects have to generate. On top of that the quality and how the effects work are major factors in determining how good what it is you are feeling. You give no indication of the effects you tried.

So either, please stop talking and talking and talking but instead pull your finger out and perhaps try to be more cooperative or try the advice given.