Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software
- Thread starter Mr Latte
- Start date
Bzzt, no spade connectors; those contacts are fragile;
better to solder wires dressed back and anchored to the exciter body
by e.g. epoxy or hot glue, to minimize vibration stresses:
better to solder wires dressed back and anchored to the exciter body
by e.g. epoxy or hot glue, to minimize vibration stresses:
RCHeliguy
Premium
I think this entirely depends on how much stress you are putting on the spades. If the wire is coming into the spade connection straight and doesn't have any sideways stress, it shouldn't put much pressure on the spade connectors.
If as in that picture the wire is coming at the exciter from the other direction, it would put a large amount of stress on the connector and cause it to fail.
If as in that picture the wire is coming at the exciter from the other direction, it would put a large amount of stress on the connector and cause it to fail.
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Whoaa! 263 pages! I tried to read all of it... I scanned a lot of it as it was more bickering than information 
There was some good info, but to be honest I've been asleep since then and it has gone from my head. Have the links been removed from post 1? I swear there was loads more?
Where do I go to find the info for layering effects on SimHub and how to setup a profile for my NU3000DSP amp for the BK Concert and a BS200i?
Hardware:
NU3000DSP Amp
3x BS200i Reckhorn (1x being used on pedal plate, 2x unused)
1x BK Concert (on its way, will go under seat)
DIY Vibration motor on brake pedal, activates with ABS
Surely it's time for a Tactile sub forum!?
There was some good info, but to be honest I've been asleep since then and it has gone from my head. Have the links been removed from post 1? I swear there was loads more?Where do I go to find the info for layering effects on SimHub and how to setup a profile for my NU3000DSP amp for the BK Concert and a BS200i?
Hardware:
NU3000DSP Amp
3x BS200i Reckhorn (1x being used on pedal plate, 2x unused)
1x BK Concert (on its way, will go under seat)
DIY Vibration motor on brake pedal, activates with ABS
Surely it's time for a Tactile sub forum!?
I have an order placed with Simtag for the RaceBass solution and have joined the community. It seems the plan is to empower those lacking experience and knowledge by educating them while providing a platform to exchange ideas. In my view it’s a sound concept, you standardise the equipment being used as best as you can and that creates an environment where what works for one person is, more than likely, also going to work for another due to variables having been minimised. I can see it working well for people as one of the other benefits, due to this standard model (not just a single solution), is that teaching people becomes very efficient.
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Excuse my question(s): This is not a bass shaker but a little full range exciter, isn't it? How are you using it, where is mounted, and what frequency range are you sending to it as a SimHub effect?
Yes
A pair of DAEX32EP-4 provides lateral tactile feedback of rear wheel slip (oversteer)
attached low on a seatback frame for harness tension pulleys, driven by 44 +/-10 Hz white noise.
A single DAEX30HESF-4 exciter is attached to brake pedal back, driven by 68+/- 3Hz
modulated by low frequencies simulating brake disc runout when pads begin to contact rotors.
Thanks for the reply.
So the DAEX30HESF-4 can be used instead of a "classic" rumble motor on the brake and throttle pedal (obviously connected to an audio amp instead of the arduino...)? I have this idea in my mind for a while...
Yes, a rumble motor can probably run continuously,
at least until it wears out, while burning out an exciter is entirely possible
(done that) by driving too hard for more than brief periods.
Exciters are capable of more interesting tactile effects,
but your foot becomes less sensitive to effects at higher force e.g. a stiff load cell.
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I've spent a long time reading this thread now, and it seems that the minimal recommended setup is something like a big buttkicker + TST + a really expensive amp + isolation at the seat brackets to maximize effects. Additionally, some tinkering is required with additional software to control everything. So in short, it's all quite expensive and complicated.
I'm assuming that there's a good reason for the general consensus to be what it is, so maybe my next question will be seen as a bit blasphemous, but I want to ask anyway just in case: how bad of a result should I expect if I just buy a (relatively) cheap buttkicker simulation kit, mount it directly to the bottom of my bucket seat, put carpet under my 8020 rig for isolation and run the buttkicker without any addditional software, jut using the iRacing built in LFE support? Would the result be so bad that it's just a waste of money?
I'm assuming that there's a good reason for the general consensus to be what it is, so maybe my next question will be seen as a bit blasphemous, but I want to ask anyway just in case: how bad of a result should I expect if I just buy a (relatively) cheap buttkicker simulation kit, mount it directly to the bottom of my bucket seat, put carpet under my 8020 rig for isolation and run the buttkicker without any addditional software, jut using the iRacing built in LFE support? Would the result be so bad that it's just a waste of money?
Not a waste of money and not bad at all. It all depends what you expect from your tactile. For most, the first time you feel the rumble from any unit after being used to a non tactile rig, it's so exciting that you don't really think you need anything higher end. Don't let the "recommended" setup deter you from not doing anything at all if you cannot afford it or cannot be bothered with the hassle of brackets, isolation, etc.
BUT, if you know you love your sim racing and are really looking at add another dimension to it, as well as being someone that likes a bit of the hardware side like most of us here, then definitely consider if it's something you can stretch your budget to. It's a bit like telling someone the only way to enjoy sim racing is with a direct drive wheel. While having and using one is amazing, you certainly don't need one to enjoy the hobby.
A good way to work out if it's something you should pursue is the state of your current rig. If you have some higher end driving hardware, a nice cockpit and triple screens, you're probably pretty deep into the hobby already. Which means you will definitely appreciate the additional immersion and feedback you'll get from a large BK model and some of the other recommended units.
BUT, if you know you love your sim racing and are really looking at add another dimension to it, as well as being someone that likes a bit of the hardware side like most of us here, then definitely consider if it's something you can stretch your budget to. It's a bit like telling someone the only way to enjoy sim racing is with a direct drive wheel. While having and using one is amazing, you certainly don't need one to enjoy the hobby.
A good way to work out if it's something you should pursue is the state of your current rig. If you have some higher end driving hardware, a nice cockpit and triple screens, you're probably pretty deep into the hobby already. Which means you will definitely appreciate the additional immersion and feedback you'll get from a large BK model and some of the other recommended units.
You are right thats the consensus but not always stated 'in that price range'. There are plenty of options with lower prices
If you were to do just what you said you would got ok results. mounting direct to the seat way to go for smaller units and if I was going to do just what you said I would mount a larger plate on the bottom of the seat and put the BK on that for the purpose of still having it more or less mounted directly to the fiberglass but not all in a single point.
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.. does not exist
D
Deleted member 197115
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Deleted member 197115
This was posted on SimHub discord today.
stigs2cousin
Premium
@sunaurus .
as stated above it is by no means necessary to sell a kidney and buy into the racebass concept.
I think it´s a little over represented here because it´s followers are really active in this regard.
Regarding the BK gamers set´s I think you could achive more with the money if you are enclined to invest time and work.
For example an Aurasound AST-2-B4 under seat and pedaltray and an amp should land in the same price range.
( ÄH, maybe not, just saw the prices have gone up)
About isolation, forget the thing with the carpet. if you want to spare your coinhabitants from the vibrations a set of feet on rubber isolators will do much more good. Or put your rig on rubber wheel casters which are said to help as well.
To get the best from the bassshakers you´ll have to have at least basic isolation on seat and pedaltray.
I find this specially important when your monitor mount is integrated into your rig. Before building my seperate monitor stand I could hear the vibrations in my monitors.
The aproach I suggest is much more DIY but will get you better results for more immersion ( engine vibration and road vibration/impacts) or a better "feel" for your car ( wheelslip/brakelock) For the latter you´ll need transducers front and rear.
MFG Carsten
as stated above it is by no means necessary to sell a kidney and buy into the racebass concept.
I think it´s a little over represented here because it´s followers are really active in this regard.
Regarding the BK gamers set´s I think you could achive more with the money if you are enclined to invest time and work.
For example an Aurasound AST-2-B4 under seat and pedaltray and an amp should land in the same price range.
( ÄH, maybe not, just saw the prices have gone up)
About isolation, forget the thing with the carpet. if you want to spare your coinhabitants from the vibrations a set of feet on rubber isolators will do much more good. Or put your rig on rubber wheel casters which are said to help as well.
To get the best from the bassshakers you´ll have to have at least basic isolation on seat and pedaltray.
I find this specially important when your monitor mount is integrated into your rig. Before building my seperate monitor stand I could hear the vibrations in my monitors.
The aproach I suggest is much more DIY but will get you better results for more immersion ( engine vibration and road vibration/impacts) or a better "feel" for your car ( wheelslip/brakelock) For the latter you´ll need transducers front and rear.
MFG Carsten
Potentially useless comments, but something I wish someone else told me directly when I started down this path:
- remember that there is very often a tendency for people to self-validate. Meaning, to distort the magnitude of the benefit of an expensive purchase. It's common with any sort of 'high cost' purchase, so remember you are reading words that might not be telling the real/true story in line with your assumptions. It's a very subjective topic (my opinion). I find this whole topic very similar to the debate with guitars/amps and the elusive 'tone' quest.....
- I think you need to decide if you're looking to add tactile for some fun (revs, gear change, etc), or for additional feedback (ie. tire slip, grip, wheel lock, etc). Personally, I fall into the 'fun' side, and so what I look for might be different than you/others. The more you are looking to get out of it, the more it will cost. Or alternatively, don't assume a BK kit will allow you access to everything tactile has to offer (which for me again, is highly subjective, and debatable)
- I am convinced there are massive diminishing returns here. I wonder if the money that some are spending on tactile, would be better balanced with other things non-tactile, but still sim-racing oriented (things like VR, better pedals, a good rig, a nice monitor, button box, etc, etc, etc, etc..... the list goes on. I think that there can be far greater incremental benefit to a lot of other things, rather than the 'deep well' of the tactile world)
- I'm not one of the so-called 'tactile elite'... but I've played around enough to come to the conclusion that the absolute biggest benefit is from having 'something', but not getting your expectations too high. A basic BK kit (compared to nothing) is definitely a fun addition, but don't have unrealistic expectations, and use only one or two effects at a time.
- The BK Kit is not likely going to give you a good 'thump' for things like gear change. But it can/will be there, assuming it's mounted in a spot that translates nicely to your body. It is possible to amplify the effect by how it's mounted, and using some leverage to increase the effect. The more stuff between you and the BK (mounts, connections, seat padding, etc), the more the effect is reduced. This is where some isolation helps to contain the vibration to the area wanted.
- the advantage of a BK kit, from my perspective is that you can at least try/understand what lies ahead, without massive investment. Then, if you go further, you can always keep using it together with other purchases. Or, if not, I'm sure those kits are sellable online pretty easily. And, considering this, if you are very undecided to spend a bunch of money..... have a look on your local buy/sell sites..... you might be able to find a used kit for much less, to test your interest.
Personally, I started with 2x BK Minis and the NX1000D amp. But I found that the related kick was not what I hoped for (I was a bit disappointed actually, thinking I was doing something wrong..... but the answer I got was "you had unrealistic expectations and should have done better research"....and that was correct) So I went up from there (but still use the same amp and BK together with other items). But even with some investment now, I still target the 'fun' side of things. And I love to use it with other games and Spotify just running in get background as well. And I do admit, I still remain a bit intrigued by the whole thing. I often watch my local buy/sell for different things and even purchase pieces at good prices over time, not knowing if I will ever use them.
Good luck.
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RCHeliguy
Premium
FWIW I've seen this tactile issue from a number of angles.
I started off with an inexpensive set of Aura's and basic amplifier and called it good. It did give me something and at the time I was happy with it. As was mentioned just feeling something was something.
Everyone has different priorities and you can't argue these things. They simply are. People care about what they care about.
I went through the rest of my rig as my first priority.
Started with a SimLab P1 chassis which is I think the bedrock that you work from.
Then I updated pretty much every other component on my rig for both driving and flight.
I was after functionality first and my rig went in many directions and I've spent a chunk on my rig at this point.
Then I started down the tactile path after I had pretty well upgraded everything else on my rig.
I also pushed back over and over against the Race Bass suggestions from Mr. Latte. I didn't believe that it would make as big a difference as had been stated.
I got an Behringer NX4-6000 amplifier with the thought I would install larger transducers.
First I wanted more kick in my seat and got a BK-CT for it and liked it.
Then I got a TST-329 just to see what the fuss was all about and tried out the public engine effect I was pretty impressed.
My seat was already on a universal joint from my NLRv3 which has a little play so with my transducers outboard it managed to give me some decent sensations. This may have impacted my initial positive impressions compared to others.
Now my foot plate wasn't wasn't up to snuff, so I mounted a TST-429 to it and eventually an BK-CT.
Then I got setup with the Race Base isolation and DSP's and exciters and full effects that Mr. Latte developed as a tester for him. There has been much gnashing of teeth over these effects and I really don't want to open that up, but they are very good.
At this point I'm a believer. I consider the tactile effects I'm getting now more important than my motion system. I don't think that the end results were blown out of proportion in the least.
However I'm not saying that I want to get rid of my motion system. I feel that tactile works best as part of a system of supporting elements. Good FFB, Good tactile, motion, and I recently added a seat belt tensioning system. When they all work together they work better because they reinforce each other and make the whole system feel whole.
That could also impact how much someone likes tactile. I feel like I have a lot more tactile power than I need. I have it dialed back to feel natural with everything else and that is when it shines. I only sim in VR and both motion and tactile seem more powerful in VR.
I suspect that without a seat belt tensioner, without motion and without good FFB that tactile would not hold up nearly as well.
This is a high end tactile system and it isn't cheap. I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT say it is more important than a good set of pedals and direct drive wheel. I feel like it is something that you use to polish off a high end rig, not something that should be your first priority.
I don't feel like I'm validating my purchases. I have done my best to remain emotionally detached from most of my purchases. I remember getting my SC2 Pro and initially feeling underwhelmed by it and saying as much. Now with vastly improved profiles I'm very happy with my SC2 Pro. It had lots of potential that I hadn't experienced. I think the same can be said for tactile systems.
All systems are only as good as their weakest link. For pedals to feel right you want a certain amount of travel, a certain amount of resistance, a good ergonomic starting angle, good seat position relative to them etc... For direct drive systems to feel good you need good profiles and good wheel position. For motion systems to work well they need good software driving them and good profiles.
Tactile has a LOT of potential weak links and that is why this becomes such a hairy subject. People pick apart each link as being unimportant and I don't want to argue any of those points.
I started off with an inexpensive set of Aura's and basic amplifier and called it good. It did give me something and at the time I was happy with it. As was mentioned just feeling something was something.
Everyone has different priorities and you can't argue these things. They simply are. People care about what they care about.
I went through the rest of my rig as my first priority.
Started with a SimLab P1 chassis which is I think the bedrock that you work from.
Then I updated pretty much every other component on my rig for both driving and flight.
I was after functionality first and my rig went in many directions and I've spent a chunk on my rig at this point.
Then I started down the tactile path after I had pretty well upgraded everything else on my rig.
I also pushed back over and over against the Race Bass suggestions from Mr. Latte. I didn't believe that it would make as big a difference as had been stated.
I got an Behringer NX4-6000 amplifier with the thought I would install larger transducers.
First I wanted more kick in my seat and got a BK-CT for it and liked it.
Then I got a TST-329 just to see what the fuss was all about and tried out the public engine effect I was pretty impressed.
My seat was already on a universal joint from my NLRv3 which has a little play so with my transducers outboard it managed to give me some decent sensations. This may have impacted my initial positive impressions compared to others.
Now my foot plate wasn't wasn't up to snuff, so I mounted a TST-429 to it and eventually an BK-CT.
Then I got setup with the Race Base isolation and DSP's and exciters and full effects that Mr. Latte developed as a tester for him. There has been much gnashing of teeth over these effects and I really don't want to open that up, but they are very good.
At this point I'm a believer. I consider the tactile effects I'm getting now more important than my motion system. I don't think that the end results were blown out of proportion in the least.
However I'm not saying that I want to get rid of my motion system. I feel that tactile works best as part of a system of supporting elements. Good FFB, Good tactile, motion, and I recently added a seat belt tensioning system. When they all work together they work better because they reinforce each other and make the whole system feel whole.
That could also impact how much someone likes tactile. I feel like I have a lot more tactile power than I need. I have it dialed back to feel natural with everything else and that is when it shines. I only sim in VR and both motion and tactile seem more powerful in VR.
I suspect that without a seat belt tensioner, without motion and without good FFB that tactile would not hold up nearly as well.
This is a high end tactile system and it isn't cheap. I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT say it is more important than a good set of pedals and direct drive wheel. I feel like it is something that you use to polish off a high end rig, not something that should be your first priority.
I don't feel like I'm validating my purchases. I have done my best to remain emotionally detached from most of my purchases. I remember getting my SC2 Pro and initially feeling underwhelmed by it and saying as much. Now with vastly improved profiles I'm very happy with my SC2 Pro. It had lots of potential that I hadn't experienced. I think the same can be said for tactile systems.
All systems are only as good as their weakest link. For pedals to feel right you want a certain amount of travel, a certain amount of resistance, a good ergonomic starting angle, good seat position relative to them etc... For direct drive systems to feel good you need good profiles and good wheel position. For motion systems to work well they need good software driving them and good profiles.
Tactile has a LOT of potential weak links and that is why this becomes such a hairy subject. People pick apart each link as being unimportant and I don't want to argue any of those points.
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