Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Wmacky]

Hi Mr.Latte,

I didn't mean to drag you out of semi tactile retirement, but thank for responding anyway. I was hoping one of the few others that have experimented with layers would chime in.

I spent a few more hours with Simhub last night, and I may have figured out what you did to create layers. Perhaps you or someone else could at least give me a "yes or no" about this being correct.

Creating layers-

1. Starting with a fresh new profile

2. Add a effect from the list.

3.Contiue to add the same effect for as many layers as needed.

4.OR add the effect then clone it several times?

5. Then from within each duplicated effect, there is a check mark that allows a special addition name to be given to each one.

6. Going to the sound card channel assignment page, the duplicated effects now show up as a separate effect selections.

7. Specific channels/ transducers can now be assigned to a individual special named duplicated effect.

8. Each duplicated effect can now have it's own settings specific to the transducers it has been assigned.


Is this right? If so, I must say it's not very intuitive, or immediately obvious how to create layers.....


If I'm right, I'll consider posting some "How to posts" regarding specific set up steps to accomplish some of these things. I love to discuss concepts, but I'm a big fan of specific steps.

 

[Wmacky]

BTW - For US forum members, The Dayton 40W exciters are on sale at Parts Express for - $15.49

I just bought 5 more. You never know when these things might blow up, or get discontinued.

 

[Ruttman98]

BTW - For US forum members, The Dayton 40W exciters are on sale at Parts Express for - $15.49

I just bought 5 more. You never know when these things might blow up, or get discontinued.

Thank you very much for sharing, Wmacky.

I had been waiting to pull the trigger--and you just pushed me to buy four. Now I need to decide on amps to go with the exciters and my two BK MIni LFEs!

 

[Mr Latte]

Layered Effects
Yes seems you're getting the idea, naming individual layers which can have their own sensitivity settings or usage of frequencies. Basically, offering roles for the activity of an effect or a unique sensation for a specific usage.

Like having small bumps more active for saw kerbs using lighter but higher Hz for faster/repeated response and then medium or larger bumps only activated with much higher telemetry values. These then going to large or more accomplished units like BK.

What I can tell you is I have tested hundreds of layers and ideas in the last 18-24 months but I have not yet established a "finished profile". The reason for that is that my goal at the time was testing different rig builds for my own cockpit and to was to help experiment as well as discover how or ways we could bring about much more fun and immersive effects.

Using effects that utilise harmonics can also work well and we spread these over a BK and Exciter.
In that an effect may have the primary part of its output (eg 15Hz - 30Hz) and we apply a layer for an exciter that is harmonically matched 45Hz - 60Hz. With that approach and then how you determine what you place as volumes for the BK or Exciter layers you then can form a more varied or personal preference to the feel of the effect. Such effects split over more than one unit can also be better distributed into the users body zones but I have talked enough about this in the past.

Only some of the things I was working on were shared with the idea at the time these would help encourage others to work on or adapt effects of their own and likewise them to then share their own updates or effects sensations they liked. Yet really how many people in the last 6 months here on RD forums have you seen share their own profiles?

Output Channelling
The output mixer in the "sound output" menu lets us place the effects to desired channels.
In that screen you can import/export the output configuration for each soundcard. This is not the effects themselves it's a mapping of where the effects are going.

Its also possible to import/export a blank layout as it can be a pain in the ass if your testing different effects or placement of effects to different channels. You can then quickly redo an output by importing previously saved output configurations you are testing or comparing. One of the great things with the multi exciter concept is this ability to easily determine where you want certain effects and different users may like similar things or we may prefer something different to others.

Simhubs scope with things like this, is much more powerful than Simvibes limited usage of a CM/EM output mixer.
So with Simhub you load in the effects profile you want to use but can then also have or test different configurations in how/where effect layers are being output with zero restrictions or number of channels.

Recently I have pulled back from it all as I need to get my own build up and running to start the next chapter of my own effects creation and testing. Its not that "Im done with it all" I am in the process of even upgrading some of the specialist audio hardware I use to help with controlling and monitoring the quite extreme concept my own build will employ. Its just got even more crazy with another new approach I am working on for my own build.

I believe I have a great deal (still) to share, based on my own personal experimentation and self-learning from testing vaious methods and ideas and this will still continue once I get back to testing on my own new build. Though I do feel my own videos and course/following on Skill Share is what I might go with. Its a niche interest, but those interested could follow for 1-2 months at little cost and if it gained traction in followers could be something that covers many aspects in questions and confusion people generally have with all this which this thread and these forums is an excellent example of.

I have some effects sent to you, what I find is those that offer opinions and input I tend to send more effects but its important for me to discover also what doesnt work or feel good to people to help then focus on specific approaches to effects creation.
Really I still have a tonne to learn yet and improve, especially with how the same effects may differ on various sims. Yet I can see how already so much has been learned just from continued experimentation and creative approaches to go beyond the norm

 

[Wmacky]

THanks, Mr Latte,

I'll dig into you post when I get off work. Didn't mean to drag you back into posting so soon! I know you need the break!

You must be happy to see so many finally moving over to the "Latte Exciter setup" I think you would approve of my setup.

I have a NX3000D driving a LFE, at at the seat bottom, and a Advance at the pedals, I also have a Behringer 308, and a Fosi 2 ch running 6 Dayton 40W exciters at your recommended seat placement positions.

 

[Wmacky]

Mr Latte has asked to see photos of my rig / Tactile setup. I guess I'll post them here.

Here's the rig, currently with flight controls attached.

Here's my tactile hardware.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FYI, I put something out for foot plate isolation that may have some general use. It assumes that you are using a foot plate, can drill 11mm holes, and have vertical supports to bolt to under the plate.

Foot Plate Transducer Isolator by RCHeliGuy

Edit: 6/12/21 Added a shorter left and right plate support that can be used when vertical clearance is an issue for the taller supportsThis is an isolation system that allows a sim racing foot plate to move well isolated from the rest of the rig. This captures the Sorbothane so it doesn't...

www.thingiverse.com

 

[RCHeliguy]

@Wmacky your rig is looking pretty serious! Nice work!

 

[Wmacky]

FYI, I put something out for foot plate isolation that may have some general use. It assumes that you are using a foot plate, can drill 11mm holes, and have vertical supports to bolt to under the plate.

Foot Plate Transducer Isolator by RCHeliGuy

Edit: 6/12/21 Added a shorter left and right plate support that can be used when vertical clearance is an issue for the taller supportsThis is an isolation system that allows a sim racing foot plate to move well isolated from the rest of the rig. This captures the Sorbothane so it doesn't...

www.thingiverse.com

Yes I saw that yesterday, and bookmarked it.;-)

My advance transducer arrives tomorrow, I'm waiting to see if my footplate is large enough to mount it.

 

[elcid4300]

Can someone give me a very basic meaning of what road vibration, road texture in simhub are?

I am happy with gearshift and kerb setting but can't find a good "feel" for road and bumps.

Thanks for any help!

 

[DesKane]

wow 162 Pages of Tactile Goodness .......

Been away for a while, but have just purchased a new Behringer NX4 Channel 6000, want to test this unit with 4 BK Advances all through the one unit ..... is it up for the job !?

 

[monster2484]

@9mm
Okay thanks for that, plenty of good hardware you have picked out. I will focus on tactile hardware.
Soundcard you will need regardless of the tactile chosen, cables etc may vary again depending on what you may want to do.

Looking at the 4x Aura and 2x SMSL amps that is approx $424
For perspective, we can see that more is being spent on a shifter/handbrake or the pedals.

Quite a bit of high-end gear has been chosen but if looking at the tactile you have what are pretty much in fairness budget options. So what should a person expect from that, after all, lots of people have similar hardware on these and other forums right?

4 Channel Mode
This became the "Option Of Choice" based on Simvibe Chassis Mode and its popularity in the sim community.

Truth be told, it can be overrated, firstly as the number of actual stereo effects (especially with Simvibe) is limited. 4x something just okay is well err okay in what it can achieve. Yet their seems this perception that to get the best immersion with tactile in sim racing, then you need responses for all 4 wheels and then maybe later add another unit for additional engine/gearchange etc.

I recommend focussing on quality and upgradability!

The best immersion for tactile will come from having an installation that can capably deliver the full bass frequency range. It is very important to be able to deliver this. It is not a wattage thing, do not fall into the mindset that you only need 50w units for a cockpit and beyond this is overkill.

Having an installation that can deliver 1-200Hz of bass places you in a very good position. Certainly when compared to the common/popular models most people have that will only perform well with @ 30Hz-80Hz.

This approach I offer, will let you have a much wider range of sensations and also greater variation from any of the effects you want to use. With this will come more power, depth, greater assertion and also with much more zing, or spice to the detail from generated harmonics of various effects.

Amps
1x Behringer EPQ 304 (also do fan mod)
4x DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 40W Exciter

Shop around for best deal on amp, (Parts Express) price seems high to that of UK for the amp.
This should come in under $400 for the lot. This in my experience is how anyone getting into tactile should start. It does require though a suitable seat to work best.

I would also recommend you price/purchase the Behringer Powerplay HA6000
It is a bit of gear that will give you excellent control and bass management, although it will add to the cost and need additional cabling it is very much recommended.

Now, if you want to spend more or you can add at a later time...
To add with that, you want at least 1x large BK unit and an amp to power it (amp will power a 2nd BK also)

My advice is go this path, forget about tactile on pedals to start, focus on the seat and achieving the desired quality and performance this configuration achieves over conventional. You will be grinning with the joy it brings to the racing and immersion and I would say will want to expand it further to pedals etc once you experience what it offers.

The other benefit with this approach is that all the new effects I am currently working on will suit this exact hardware. So you will be able to get effects with lots of research and testing done for them, knowing they will work well. This is part of the whole concept and approach I offer to people.

 

[Mr Latte]

wow 162 Pages of Tactile Goodness .......

Been away for a while, but have just purchased a new Behringer NX4 Channel 6000, want to test this unit with 4 BK Advances all through the one unit ..... is it up for the job !?

Indeed you have old friend....
That amp will run 4x BK Advance like a breeze but you need to be careful it not having the DSP to help prevent the piston pang within the @20Hz-30Hz range and using higher gain settings. If you're still using units on corners? Then you will generally waste a good portion of their energy going into the length of the 8020 frame and not the seat/pedals. So when this is the case (which is often) users are more likely to crank up the volume to higher levels to compensate. In doing that we lose some finer detailing as the unit used will have its own felt peak frequencies which can then subdue you feeling other frequencies its trying to output. Also the units composure will be less when driven harder but often people will crank up the effect gains and amp volume without any concern.

A point to note is that when compounding effects which will be operational at the same times and these using lower frequencies. When this happens it's natural that the dB amplitude peaks for those frequencies. You can of course use other additional software/hardware options to give you this DSP control for specific Hz operation which would be recommended but you may not desire.



Getting there with my own (crazy) amp stack. Although just ordered a nice deal for a 2nd EPQ 304 to power 8 exciters and will eventually consider getting an NX4 amp for my 4xsubwoofers going onto my rig.


Currently, I am investing towards audio wizardry items shown above to take things and bring a level of control beyond anything I ever considered.

 

[Andrew Sebastian]

Hello everyone, great thread with lots of great options and advice.

I was originally going to buy a Buttkicker 2 Gamer, but having read this thread I realise there are lots more (cheaper) options.

I want to order 4 Dayton Audio TT25-8’s, connected to the Douk Audio M4:

HiFi Bluetooth 5.0 Digital Power Amplifier Stereo 2/4 Channel Audio Amp 50W x 4 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B087GKN969/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_EQbQFbCF201TK?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

There is just one thing I need to clarify. I am going to be using my motherboard which is 7.1 capable as the sound card.

Do I need two 3.5mm to RCA cables to connect the green and black audio outputs on the motherboard to the two RCA inputs on the M4 (so one connection for two pucks)?

Or will one output from the green motherboard connection be sufficient to drive the 4 pucks?

Sorry if this is a daft question, just want to make sure I have everything I need to hand.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kurvz]

Myself I use a external 7.1 usb sound card to drive 4 mini amps for my 8 bass shakers at its work a treat use simhub and I can no longer race without my shakers on.

It's a really cheap way to get a great effect, never felt I need more power than my cheap amps provide

I use one 3.5mm to two phono plugs to connect each amp that has two shakers connected

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

You need two cables- each carries two channels.

 

[Andrew Sebastian]

You need two cables- each carries two channels.

Excellent, thanks. Can I ask how you have yours placed / configured?

I have an OMP TRS-E, which allows me to mound them directly to the seat under the cover (I’ve purchased the puck holders too so so can mount them flat).

i’m hoping to mount one behind my shoulders, and one middle back to emulate gear changes, and two lower down left and right of thighs to emulate road effects.

Is this achievable in Sim Hub?

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

I have all four attached under the padding of my seat - two L &R at shoulder areas, two L & R under the seat. I have them configured as 'car corners' in simhubs - wasn't sure how well this would work but it's great. What you suggest is possible but I find having the gear shift coming from all 4 works well.

 

[Andrew Sebastian]

I have all four attached under the padding of my seat - two L &R at shoulder areas, two L & R under the seat. I have them configured as 'car corners' in simhubs - wasn't sure how well this would work but it's great. What you suggest is possible but I find having the gear shift coming from all 4 works well.

Great, thanks. I guess there are endless permutations, just a case of trying it out I guess! Thanks for your help.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

Sim Hub is great - you'll figure it all out easily enough. I didn't have much choice as to shaker placement but I'm loving it as it is. You could go down the rabbit hole with this stuff but the biggest difference is obtained moving from no tactile - to any tactile, everything else is tinkering.