Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Brutal Deluxe]

Got my exciters today, thinking about where should i put them. There is not too much choice on the seat, because its a regular car seat. First i tried to use fasteners to test out things. There is almost zero flat surface to use the vhb. On the other hand i can definintely can use the adhesive on the pedals, not where i originaly planned (back on the pedal) because thats not flat neither, but as in the pictures. What do you guys think?

I'm not sure if this is meant to be temporary but fastening them like this will not work. The exciters are essentially 2 parts. The top section needs to move freely in order for them to work properly.

Your setup is definitely going to throw up some challenges in regards to placement but I'm sure you can still achieve some good tactile feedback if you're creative. You might have to look at fabricating some brackets to mount parts but it can be done.

 

[FlikenFlaken24]

It would be interesting to see and get peoples own feedback on how well they work with pedals. They should be able to operate better than Fanatec type motor sensations or alternatives and with more control using tactile for creating the sensation of the effects being used. We also do not have a motor spinning up with audio but really has their been a personal study or development by someone trying different options and the pros/cons?

The exciters would not need to be directly attached to a pedal.They could be stuck to a mild aluminum strip (bent shaped) that then makes contact with the pedal and would also act as a mechanical leverage/amplifier to help increase the sensation it produces in the pedal. Not seen anyone try such though but thats what Id suggest to try.

Seats that will not give direct transition of the vibes to specific body regions will then not likely be that "exciting" regards the tactile they provide. Worth a go but I dont want people to spend the money and be disappointed as when installed as recommended they are excellent for immersion and even more when teamed up with BK units.

I think nobody tried the pedals so far, but i want some feedback on the brakes and those was my 2 options. I choosed this route because there is no spin up and maybe more detailed feedback and if its not working then i can use the exciter somewhere else. I tried to mount on the brake pedal, because i dont know if im want the whole pedal base and the front of the simrig to get the vibrations. My only intention is the wheel lock effect on it.
As i said i will definitevly buy a bucket seat in the future, but until then i want to learn the basics of the tactile immersion and test out a lot of things.

 

[FlikenFlaken24]

I'm not sure if this is meant to be temporary but fastening them like this will not work. The exciters are essentially 2 parts. The top section needs to move freely in order for them to work properly.

Your setup is definitely going to throw up some challenges in regards to placement but I'm sure you can still achieve some good tactile feedback if you're creative. You might have to look at fabricating some brackets to mount parts but it can be done.

Im just looking for places where should i put them. First i thought about welding some plates on the seat spings, but i found some flat spaces. There are almost the same on the other side. On the back my idea is that i use fasteners to secure a metal plate on, then mount the exciter on that.

 

[DiLFe]

Paul, this setup with some nice effects I think could blow you away and you could have a lot of fun with the immersion it brings. Getting into this can often seem a bit like a cliff and in fairness, you have taken the time to read into and understand most stuff.

I think the HA6000 are great and they have that retro look to them with all the LEDs active, seeing all the channels operating and then having the ability to just alter the bass/treble is cool for on the fly tweaking. My vision for these is to use them more when "Game Audio" tactile is either being used (from any source) or for people that want to also mix and experiment with having both being used on a rig.

If you seek really just having the best control and tuning with the exciters then I would recommend looking instead at the t.racks DSP I linked and have ordered. It will give the DSP controls similar to the NXD offers. You can then use a secondary monitor if you want to have its controls on.

I can help with the cables you need but do note that I think both the HA6000 or the t.rack DSP will need 3.5mm from soundcard to "TS" based (mono cables) for each channel and not "TRS" with the additional ring.

For USB soundcard, I would recommend having one that has additional channels for future potential upgrading.
You could use the internal card for BK units to NXD. Then use the USB card and get a 7.1 unit that allows you to use/install up to 8 exciters for more on the seat or to experiment on shifters/pedals or wheelbase effects.

This is widely used and affordable, not sure about its software but "wotever" uses this himself.

LEAGY USB 7.1 External Sound Card, 8-Channel - 7.1 Channel USB Soundbox - UP to 8 Speakers - Dynamic 3D Surround Sound - Simultaneous Recording and Playback - Analog and Digital Audio Equipment : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Buy

www.amazon.co.uk

I Have a Asus U7 sitting about to be used but I got a good deal on that a good while ago on ebay.

I'm looking for a USB soundcard to drive 8 exciters I just ordered. I intend to use my internal soundcard for a future BK unit coupled with an external DSP.

I'd like to find an USB soundcard for the exciters that offers EQ software (which saves and auto loads the adjusted EQ) for low and high pass filtering. I'm not sure if I actually need soundcard specific EQ, this could potentially also be done by a 3rd party app. My fear is that they might be system-wide, and not allow for soundcard specific EQ. I'd also like to have the EQ stored and auto-load. Equalizer APO might be able to handle this, haven't researched that in depth yet.

Among others I have considered the cheapycheap soundcard that @Mr Latte mentioned:

LEAGY USB 7.1 External Sound Card, 8-Channel - 7.1 Channel USB Soundbox - UP to 8 Speakers - Dynamic 3D Surround Sound - Simultaneous Recording and Playback - Analog and Digital Audio Equipment - LEAGY

Buy LEAGY USB 7.1 External Sound Card, 8-Channel - 7.1 Channel USB Soundbox - UP to 8 Speakers - Dynamic 3D Surround Sound - Simultaneous Recording and Playback - Analog and Digital Audio Equipment at Amazon.

www.amazon.co.uk

Would @Wotever or anyone else be able to confirm if this ships with a usable EQ software?

I know I could get an external DSP to handle this, but for the 8 exciters I'd be fine with a set and forget approach.

[EDIT]
1) There is of course a lot more options if also considering PCI soundcards. My PC is on the other side of the room from my rig, so just thought I'd rather have one cable to route. Also, I already have a USB hub at my rig, which would be the easiest option. Seems a lot of people don't like to use them though! I have my DD wheel and everything hooked up through that little hub, no problems so far.

 

[EsxPaul]

As you guys might have guessed from my previous posts, I've been really disappointed with how tactile has been working out for me and I haven't even bothered to use my rig for over 3 weeks as a result. I've got some spare time to try and have another crack at it tomorrow and I'm thinking I might start from scratch.

I don't have very many transducers on my setup so I'm wondering if it would be better to start again by having just a single effect for my 2 large BKs (pedal Deck and seat) and another separate single effect for my 4 Exiters (seat) and then see if I can work my way up from there.

Perhaps rpm on the exiters and a different effect (not sure what to choose yet) on the BKs.

Any thoughts?

 

[DiLFe]

As you guys might have guessed from my previous posts, I've been really disappointed with how tactile has been working out for me and I haven't even bothered to use my rig for over 3 weeks as a result. I've got some spare time to try and have another crack at it tomorrow and I'm thinking I might start from scratch.

I don't have very many transducers on my setup so I'm wondering if it would be better to start again by having just a single effect for my 2 large BKs (pedal Deck and seat) and another separate single effect for my 4 Exiters (seat) and then see if I can work my way up from there.

Perhaps rpm on the exiters and a different effect (not sure what to choose yet) on the BKs.

Any thoughts?

Sorry to hear that, but I cannot really help yet as I'm still waiting for the gear to arrive... However, could you perhaps elaborate on exactly what you've found disappointing / not working to your liking so far? I couldn't find anything specific within a few pages.

I'm sure others will be able to chime in before me, but needs some context. Hopefully this can help other newcomers get on the correct path quicker as well, while solving this for you.

 

[Mr Latte]

@EsxPaul

Paul, dude what are you doing?

Your welcome to give me a shout if you want in private or if you want maybe do a thread highlighting your issues. Im off today but got some things to do later on.

 

[Moonmachine]

My list of tactile currently consists of:

2 Large LFE, one under the seat to the rear and the other bolted to a forward sitting plate on the pedals.
2 Mini LFE mounted under the seat left and right under the hamstrings.
4 Dayton DAEX32EP-4, 2 mid seat back left and right and 2 at shoulders left and right.

NX3000D for the Large LFE's
NX1000D for the mini LFE's
Nobsound 4 channel 50W and T.racks DSP for the exciters.

I have some basic isolation with bobbins mounting the seat and pedals, I am also looking to isolate the rig from the floor with layered sound deadening material underneath four castors.

I believe I have understood the DSP settings and can get everything to feel right individually. I spent some time finding the limitations of each transducer, setting the HP/LP filters and crossovers. Although EQ'ing was a little beyond me, so far.

Using Simhub shakeit I can get some decent basic effects especially the low frequencys, the large LFE's are incredibly powerful. From the initial excitement of having that power on tap, I have since turned them down considerably.

I have spent the last two days trying to learn how to tune effects and am lost, I just seem to get more and more in a muddle. My method has been to isolate each effect and drive two or three laps, adjust and repeat. Same car, same track on ACC.
Rumble strips have been the biggest headache!

Does anybody have any effects profiles they are willing to share?
I would be interested to at least see what is possibly achievable.

I am willing to give feedback or anything else in return obviously within my limited capability.

 

[Dan Costa]

Im just looking for places where should i put them. First i thought about welding some plates on the seat spings, but i found some flat spaces. There are almost the same on the other side. On the back my idea is that i use fasteners to secure a metal plate on, then mount the exciter on that.

You'll be wasting energy in those places. I put mine here:

 

[EsxPaul]

@DiLFe @Mr Latte

Cheers for the replies. I won't bother going too far into why it isn't working for me. The equipment I have is good and powerful and I know that because I experienced my eyeballs shaking when I first run the online tone generator

I'm 100% sure it's all due to me not understanding how to manipulate Sim Hub. A quick couple of examples...

I'm using an rpm effect for my large BKs that includes multiple layers. All of those layers give me a form of tactile feedback but they are out of sync with the actual car rpm. For example, the feeling of judder when the limiter kicks in comes at the wrong time (ACC Lambo Evo). The effects are there for sure but the timing is off, which ruins the immersion for me to the point where I'd rather have it all switched off.

I was trying out rpm, speed and gearshift on the large BKs. Everytime I pull for a gearshift, rpm and speed effects dissappear, as if it has to pause those two effects while it sorts out a thump for the gearshift effect. This makes me think that you can only have a single effect on each transducer, hence me wanting to start from scratch.

I think what I want to do now is to work on having just rpm on my 4x exiters and then just something else on the BKs. If I can manage that I can work from there and if I can't do something as simple as that, then this is not for me unfortunately.

 

[Moonmachine]

@DiLFe @Mr Latte

Cheers for the replies. I won't bother going too far into why it isn't working for me. The equipment I have is good and powerful and I know that because I experienced my eyeballs shaking when I first run the online tone generator

I'm 100% sure it's all due to me not understanding how to manipulate Sim Hub. A quick couple of examples...

I'm using an rpm effect for my large BKs that includes multiple layers. All of those layers give me a form of tactile feedback but they are out of sync with the actual car rpm. For example, the feeling of judder when the limiter kicks in comes at the wrong time (ACC Lambo Evo). The effects are there for sure but the timing is off, which ruins the immersion for me to the point where I'd rather have it all switched off.

I was trying out rpm, speed and gearshift on the large BKs. Everytime I pull for a gearshift, rpm and speed effects dissappear, as if it has to pause those two effects while it sorts out a thump for the gearshift effect. This makes me think that you can only have a single effect on each transducer, hence me wanting to start from scratch.

I think what I want to do now is to work on having just rpm on my 4x exiters and then just something else on the BKs. If I can manage that I can work from there and if I can't do something as simple as that, then this is not for me unfortunately.

Is it possible that the priority box is checked on the gear change setting? This I believe would silence other effects on gear change.

 

[FlikenFlaken24]

You'll be wasting energy in those places. I put mine here:

I dont know how can i secure these exciters on the springs?

 

[Mr Latte]

@EsxPaul

The points your raise are easily sorted, the timing for the rpm can be changed with the response curve. When we do more advanced RPM effects for cars with multi-layers then yes its best to have these made for specific cars different redline values.

Much can be learned sometimes but not being afraid to copy a layer then use the copy to make your own changes and then compare the copy to the original with the changes you make. This way you soon grasp what the changes are doing but dont be afraid to ask or report of issues you are having.

As moon machine mentioned yes the "Shift" may be set to high priority mode and this can be disabled. The reason I assume its available is that in some scenarios it may be hard for a user to feel the shift if they have various other effects operating on the same channel.

What is the limit of effects that can be used on a single unit, well Its not a simple answer as it will depend on the effects used and then the settings/frequencies also being used? It also could determine on the unit installed how well it produces the effects. 3-4 effects is a decent number but when you have more units thats one of the advantages in that you can place certain effects to certain units or we can then avoid having effects that operate often at the same time on the same unit.

When you start losing clarity of effects then thats a good sign that the unit is struggling.
A good way to check for this is do A/B comparisons with the different effects active.
Speed and RPM work best if separated as stated many times.

Normal audio with music or movies used on Buttkickers generates lots more harmonics and frequencies than these tones in Simhiub. Keep also in mind what I have said before that effects that use the same frequencies when active at the same time, these further increase the dB output for those frequencies. So this can make them more prominent and may have some bearing then not feeling other frequencies as well. A common example is people using repeatedly effects within the 40-50Hz that will be quite strong anyways and with BK units they are not the best with 60Hz and above compared to TST units and even the exciters.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I'm looking for a USB soundcard to drive 8 exciters I just ordered. I intend to use my internal soundcard for a future BK unit coupled with an external DSP.

I'd like to find an USB soundcard for the exciters that offers EQ software (which saves and auto loads the adjusted EQ) for low and high pass filtering. I'm not sure if I actually need soundcard specific EQ, this could potentially also be done by a 3rd party app. My fear is that they might be system-wide, and not allow for soundcard specific EQ. I'd also like to have the EQ stored and auto-load. Equalizer APO might be able to handle this, haven't researched that in depth yet.

Among others I have considered the cheapycheap soundcard that @Mr Latte mentioned:

LEAGY USB 7.1 External Sound Card, 8-Channel - 7.1 Channel USB Soundbox - UP to 8 Speakers - Dynamic 3D Surround Sound - Simultaneous Recording and Playback - Analog and Digital Audio Equipment - LEAGY

Buy LEAGY USB 7.1 External Sound Card, 8-Channel - 7.1 Channel USB Soundbox - UP to 8 Speakers - Dynamic 3D Surround Sound - Simultaneous Recording and Playback - Analog and Digital Audio Equipment at Amazon.

www.amazon.co.uk

Would @Wotever or anyone else be able to confirm if this ships with a usable EQ software?

I know I could get an external DSP to handle this, but for the 8 exciters I'd be fine with a set and forget approach.

[EDIT]
1) There is of course a lot more options if also considering PCI soundcards. My PC is on the other side of the room from my rig, so just thought I'd rather have one cable to route. Also, I already have a USB hub at my rig, which would be the easiest option. Seems a lot of people don't like to use them though! I have my DD wheel and everything hooked up through that little hub, no problems so far.

I can't recommend a specific card but it's worth keeping in mind that you can apply a low and high pass to card with SimHub. Not always ideal, but if you're running 8x exciters off one card, then it should work great. With that in mind, I wouldn't be too worried about the card coming with EQ software.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

My list of tactile currently consists of:

2 Large LFE, one under the seat to the rear and the other bolted to a forward sitting plate on the pedals.
2 Mini LFE mounted under the seat left and right under the hamstrings.
4 Dayton DAEX32EP-4, 2 mid seat back left and right and 2 at shoulders left and right.

NX3000D for the Large LFE's
NX1000D for the mini LFE's
Nobsound 4 channel 50W and T.racks DSP for the exciters.

I have some basic isolation with bobbins mounting the seat and pedals, I am also looking to isolate the rig from the floor with layered sound deadening material underneath four castors.

I believe I have understood the DSP settings and can get everything to feel right individually. I spent some time finding the limitations of each transducer, setting the HP/LP filters and crossovers. Although EQ'ing was a little beyond me, so far.

Using Simhub shakeit I can get some decent basic effects especially the low frequencys, the large LFE's are incredibly powerful. From the initial excitement of having that power on tap, I have since turned them down considerably.

I have spent the last two days trying to learn how to tune effects and am lost, I just seem to get more and more in a muddle. My method has been to isolate each effect and drive two or three laps, adjust and repeat. Same car, same track on ACC.
Rumble strips have been the biggest headache!

Does anybody have any effects profiles they are willing to share?
I would be interested to at least see what is possibly achievable.

I am willing to give feedback or anything else in return obviously within my limited capability.

This is what I'm using for kerbs on my exciters. Pretty basic setup but it works well. Hope it's of some help.

 

[Mr Latte]

USB soundcards work fine with Simhub
This one from Creative has good software controls and is one I have.

Asus U7 is a good 7.1 USB soundcard with good settings as well.

For a lower-priced option that may not have good software is this but for £20 it will get the job done.

 

[KnIgHtCoM]

View attachment 396165

This is what I'm using for kerbs on my exciters. Pretty basic setup but it works well. Hope it's of some help.

That effect is not compatible for Assetto Corsa. Does anyone know how to program an alternative layer to simulate that effect?

 

[Dan Costa]

I dont know how can i secure these exciters on the springs?

One nut above and one nut bellow both screwed towards each other with the spring wire and the shaker rim between the nuts.

 

[Mr Latte]

That effect is not compatible for Assetto Corsa. Does anyone know how to program an alternative layer to simulate that effect?

Simhub and AC I believe has issues with its bump effects, so throws a bit of a challenge.
I had tried a 3 step approach as one way to try and improve the sensation.

First having a lighter effect with very high sensitivity, basically, I monitored what settings produce the most activity. Then a medium setting with a bit less sensitivity and it has a more weighty strength. Finally, a deep response that's only activated with higher data values for bigger suspension movements.

The idea is that it will vary the output of the effect with different curbs and different speeds, yet be able to output something with the very small and fast saw curbs, to then higher curbs and also the large sausage curbs.

Saw curbs that are fast and repeated, will work better with higher Hz as (Hz is cycles per second).
I have monitored how G-Loads can be active and more can be done with them to maybe help with vertical movement of the chassis.

The other solution is mixing and modifying "Game Audio" for tactile feedback to help give more felt sensation to curbs and tyre/noise character (brrrrr) for the tactile to produce. A problem with this though is that when we dig deep we can discover that titles like ACC wont always output these audio effects only to the left/right but both sides. In fairness, I want to monitor this more to determine from the 7.1 or 5.1 or 2.0 games audio output modes what channels are active with different audio effects including tyres for bumps/curbs.

 

[EsxPaul]

Thank you Moonmachine & Mr Latte for the helpful advice. I've double checked and gearshift high priority wasn't/isn't checked.

I'll start again with only rpms on the Exiters, only speed on the large BKs and see where that leads me today