Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Kieran527]

Got the Dayton DAEX32EP-4 Exciters fitted to my seat and pedals, and have spent a good few hours tuning. Relatively happy with them, but I still get the odd feeling of them
Switching on and off quite rapidly, so there’s not much build up of vibration, this is on road vibration. Obviously it’s further tuning, but does anyone has any screenshots from SImhub showing their settings, to see how they compare?
I’ve also got BK Minis fitted, I like the different feelings this combination can give to the seat and pedals. Thankfully subtle effects work better than pushing them too hard, so I’m not working the hardware too hard and the wife isn’t getting too annoyed downstairs!

Again, any settings people can share please do. We might have something others haven’t tried and come across a combination that works really well.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I mounted my seat frame on 4 rubber bobbins, calculated for my and chair weight plus allowance for dynamic loading.
They have proved to be excellent and don't add any significant height as most is under a U beam. Lots of vibes in the seat, none in the structure. The ButtKicker is mounted to the rear seat cross beam and has been really good with a mono signal. Now looking at putting 4 small pucks inside the seat squab cushion for higher frequency wheel/suspension/engine effects.

View attachment 381403

View attachment 381404

I use similar ones (but the male version) and they work great for my seat. Please note that if you're looking to attach them directly to 40mm 8 slot profile, you will need additional washers to stop the threads from bottoming out;

This UK company sell a large variety of sizes;

Bobbin Mounts: AV Mounts Online

Bobbin Mounts Male Male, Male Female, Female Female, Waisted, Hexagon and Interleaf at AV Mounts Online

www.avmountsonline.co.uk

 

[CRMS]

I'd cut the thread down!!

 

[EsxPaul]

I used the male/female type isolators and ended up cutting the male threads down. I believe they were 23mm in length and needed around 10mm to be removed so as not to bottom out in the channel.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Doing a bit of searching around this morning and came across these T&D Designs transducers. I don't suppose many have tried them out at over £1K per piece

This does look interesting. Doesn't mention frequencies, so I dropped them a quick message and got the following response;

"
The -3dB frequency range of our XK1000 is 40Hz-1Khz.

We do recommend using a steep high pass filter set at around 45Hz to reduce the heating effects of very low sub frequencies, but as programme material below 40Hz or so is not transmitted well through the body, this does not affect the 'feel' of the device.
If you are mounting an XK1000 to a single seat, you will have so much power headroom available, this is not critical.

You are free to set the upper limit to suit your airborne audio. This will give you a seamless transition between the (internal) tactile and the (external) audio."

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I'd cut the thread down!!

Your other option is to drill a hole at the bottom of the channel... forgot to mention this on my post.

Not a fan of cutting threads, I'm always expecting it to not thread properly afterwards. That's probably down to my cutting skills more than anything

 

[Kieran527]

A tip for anyone doing this.
Always thread a nut on the thread first, then when you cut the thread, run the nut back off and it recuts the thread for you.
Then a decent file to chamfer a slight lead on the thread and you’re sorted.
No worries about not rethreading or crossing When you refit it

Your other option is to drill a hole at the bottom of the channel... forgot to mention this on my post.

Not a fan of cutting threads, I'm always expecting it to not thread properly afterwards. That's probably down to my cutting skills more than anything

 

[jamescarruthers]

A tip for anyone doing this.
Always thread a nut on the thread first, then when you cut the thread, run the nut back off and it recuts the thread for you.
Then a decent file to chamfer a slight lead on the thread and you’re sorted.
No worries about not rethreading or crossing When you refit it

Ideally use the nut to guide your hacksaw so that you cut it straight - cutting it at an angle is also a recipe for an annoying thread.

 

[Mr Latte]

So guys, why limit such to a single application.solution?
I recommended this (isolator burger) idea to a couple of people over PM a few months ago and they both seemed to like it.







Using these, which are quite hard. They will, however, suit having full surface contact underneath so 45mm wide extrusion isnt quite ideal or enough. Cut and place some of this on inside or outside for a softer and initial depression/rebound. Then sandwich in your threaded isolator.

It gives good support and a bit more isolation than just what those threaded bobbins do on their own.
You can also use antivibration/sound-deadening materials underneath (if vibration noises) are an issue. There are several products available that have been mentioned over the course of this thread (Killmatt / Fatmatt / Dynamatt) but very few of you seem to have used/applied for additional isolation of different frequencies.

Single compounds or solutions are unlikely to work as well but its worth experimenting.

 

[EsxPaul]

I've ordered 4 of these (718-2160 version) to try out for my seat mounts and I'm going to place them on 80mm profiles. I'll let you guys know how they work out.

 

[CRMS]

I cut bolt threads many times with a 1.0mm disc in a grinder. Just file afterwards and never had a problem with not threading properly.

I think the 718-20160? is too stiff at 50kg each - so 200kg for 4. I think one requires total load to try and match static weight plus something for dynamic loads. I did the same calcs for an engine in a boat and had different mounts on each side to allow for motoring ahead torque.

 

[jamescarruthers]

I think the 718-20160? is too stiff at 50kg each - so 200kg for 4. I think one requires total load to try and match static weight plus something for dynamic loads. I did the same calcs for an engine in a boat and had different mounts on each side to allow for motoring ahead torque.

Thinking what these are really for — properly vibrating equipment — we aren’t really stressing them in our application at all.

I would make a guess that you’d want them rated at a little bit less than the seat plus user weight. I expect you could probably go even less.

The softer you can get away with the better.

 

[EsxPaul]

I cut bolt threads many times with a 1.0mm disc in a grinder. Just file afterwards and never had a problem with not threading properly.

I think the 718-20160? is too stiff at 50kg each - so 200kg for 4. I think one requires total load to try and match static weight plus something for dynamic loads. I did the same calcs for an engine in a boat and had different mounts on each side to allow for motoring ahead torque.

They could well be. The only other M8 type are 20kg per piece and have more deflection so I gambled on the 50kg with less deflection to keep my fat ass from moving the seat back under breaking.

 

[EsxPaul]

I may also add 4 of these smaller isolators between the mounting points of the seat and the side mounts for some extra decoupling.

 

[Mr Latte]

Good selection of options

Products | AV Industrial Products Ltd

Products from AV Industrial Products, specialists in providing vibration control products to industry from flanged mounts to machine feet.

www.avindustrialproducts.co.uk

 

[vanka472]

Attached are the spec of mine. Mine are Polymax B3020M88-1. 32kg per corner. Me and seat + frame are about 85kg. So spare for dynamic loads. Shear might be an issue at 10kg/corner. Heavy braking is double that, so may need another rubber bump stop behind seat cross beam.

Should be fairly easy to find - www.rpmrubberparts.com/stock-parts/category/vibration-control-products/flex-bolt-sandwich-mounts

Thanks for the link! That seems to be pretty fair considering the weight of me and the seat. My only question is adding the second rubber bump stop behind the cross beam. On my 8020, the seat is only on 2 profiles. Do you have to worry about the whole seat moving from the weight transfer while braking?

 

[vanka472]

Got the Dayton DAEX32EP-4 Exciters fitted to my seat and pedals, and have spent a good few hours tuning. Relatively happy with them, but I still get the odd feeling of them
Switching on and off quite rapidly, so there’s not much build up of vibration, this is on road vibration. Obviously it’s further tuning, but does anyone has any screenshots from SImhub showing their settings, to see how they compare?
I’ve also got BK Minis fitted, I like the different feelings this combination can give to the seat and pedals. Thankfully subtle effects work better than pushing them too hard, so I’m not working the hardware too hard and the wife isn’t getting too annoyed downstairs!

Again, any settings people can share please do. We might have something others haven’t tried and come across a combination that works really well.

I too am interested in getting some basic guidelines to start with as far as tuning. How many EP-4's are you using and in which configuration?

 

[CRMS]

>Do you have to worry about the whole seat moving from the weight transfer while braking?

That is my observation. And I don't know how long the bobbin will take it. I'll ask Polymax.

 

[jamescarruthers]

I too am interested in getting some basic guidelines to start with as far as tuning. How many EP-4's are you using and in which configuration?

So far I’ve found having fewer is better.
I figure there are a few different types of effects; constants, transients and events.

Constants are like the road texture or speed - they’re on all the time.

Transients are things like RPM - I set mine so it only comes on at idle and at just before the redline. Those are the only times I need to know about the engine vibrating. Idle is really just for fun, redline is useful as it’s like a shift light - it’s also quite high frequency so distinguishable.

Events are things like road bumps, kerbs etc These are usually to confirm I’m hitting kerbs whilst cornering.

The aim is to not allow multiple events to happen at once, for transients to typically be not overlapping and constants to be minimal and in the background that you can feel when everything else isn’t happening.

Also keep the frequency ranges distinct - so when they do mix you can tell what they are.

Essentially I view them much like shift lights but with vibrations - telling you what the car is doing.

 

[Mr Latte]

Fewer isnt necessarily better, its a compromise people apply based on performance limitations of single units they use and adopting an installation approach like four corners of the rig.

That's why using the multi-exciter unit and large BK combo extends the number of effects you can feel (direct installation and additional body zones also help with that) as does having units that can perform as much of the 1-200Hz full range of bass gives you far more frequency range for transitional effects or limited range effects using their own specific frequency bands.

Most people coming into tactile with budget transducers, look at their effects settings as they place the majority of them within 30Hz-80Hz based on the specifications of the units or often poor choices they made. Some budget units are restricted from 40-60Hz and yet people on the Discord still buy them so is it any wonder in many user cases they use or say "less is more".