Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[EsxPaul]

I'm jumping the gun here a lot but have been thinking about what the best upgrade path would be if someone was to go from 4 exiters to 6 or maybe 8.

Hardware wise, it seems you would have to double up on the Douk M4 and t.racks mini combination and I suppose you'd have to have two instances of the DSP software running to tune all of the exiters.

I don't know of any 8 channel amplifiers with DSP that wouldn't break the bank. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Mr Latte]

I'm jumping the gun here a lot but have been thinking about what the best upgrade path would be if someone was to go from 4 exiters to 6 or maybe 8.

Hardware wise, it seems you would have to double up on the Douk M4 and t.racks mini combination and I suppose you'd have to have two instances of the DSP software running to tune all of the exiters.

I don't know of any 8 channel amplifiers with DSP that wouldn't break the bank. Any thoughts on this?

DSP on multichannel amps is generally rare and can become very costly as found in professional audio or some higher-end car DSP processor options. The best/most affordable path for lots of DSP channels as stated before is then using an audio interface with 18 channels and this still affordable but needing iPad and specialist apps or a PC and DAW software with plugins.

The beauty with Simhub is that you can have your installation of units but load different profiles that may use effect layers placed to different channels. This also lets us help make different cars not all feel the same or have a basic boring engine doing the same thing for all types of cars with only idle and max rpm operation (yawn)

In Simvibe you are stuck with the effect being a CM or EM type effect and even then only mono effects could be used on EM so it is very much limited to effects distribution compared to how Simhub enables freedom of where each effect layer goes with no restrictions.

You can play about with options in how/where you place effect layers. Its possible to have a unit for specific roles but then for certain situations have an effect layer expand to other channels. For example, large bumps get sent to multiple units, max rpm to multiple units, yet their general usage may be on dedicated units.

 

[EsxPaul]

using an audio interface

From a hardware perspective, this part I don't understand, in terms of where it fits into the system and what it adds. I assume I'd still need to duplicate the Douk/t.racks combo to step up to 8 exiters and so I don't get why an audio interface would help me?

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

From a hardware perspective, this part I don't understand, in terms of where it fits into the system and what it adds. I assume I'd still need to duplicate the Douk/t.racks combo to step up to 8 exiters and so I don't get why an audio interface would help me?

I don't use DSP on my exciters, only on my bigger units. Yes, it will give you more control, but if you're looking to add more exciters, I would recommend running them without DSP first. You'll then be able to tell any differences from the ones with DSP and work out if it's required and worth the additional outlay.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I may also add 4 of these smaller isolators between the mounting points of the seat and the side mounts for some extra decoupling.

I strongly recommend against these. I bought some similar cheap unrated ones from the far east and they were basically unusable. They were super soft and I'd be concerned about them failing if you mounted them to the sides of your seat. I added rubber washers to my side mounts and some additional rubber tape to the sections where the seat touches the support brackets;

Pardon our interruption...

This is a product that I sell so had some to hand. PM me if you'd like a sample.

Not sure how much difference it's made, but definitely a lot more secure than placing bobbins in that position.

 

[jamescarruthers]

I don't use DSP on my exciters, only on my bigger units. Yes, it will give you more control, but if you're looking to add more exciters, I would recommend running them without DSP first. You'll then be able to tell any differences from the ones with DSP and work out if it's required and worth the additional outlay.

Are you running game audio through the DSP or just Simhub?

I've always been a bit confused as the need for DSP if using Simhub as you can control all your frequencies in software.

 

[Mr Latte]

Are you running game audio through the DSP or just Simhub?

I've always been a bit confused as the need for DSP if using Simhub as you can control all your frequencies in software.

The purpose is being able to EQ specific frequencies and determine the curve in how the frequencies are output. You then also have control of what frequency units start to become active with or stop being felt at.

 

[Kieran527]

I too am interested in getting some basic guidelines to start with as far as tuning. How many EP-4's are you using and in which configuration?

I have 2 on my seat back, and 2 on my pedal plate.
Waiting for another 2 to arrive for the seat to make a total of 4.

I dont know what frequencies work best on certain effects, but you can tell distinct difference between what feels right and what certainly feels wrong!
This is what half of what would be helpful, what frequencies work best for different effects.
I find Sim Road Texture works well at higher frequencies as it feels more fine, whereas wheel slip/lock feel better lower down the frequency range due to a courser effect.
But then I cant get the sim road texture to switch in and out smoothly, due to my settings and its feels fake, its a very noticable switch exciter on, switch exciter off. This is the second part of what would be helpful.

I can screenshot my settings for people, but it is in no way set up by expert, infact a beginner.
And I have my settings dialled down quite a lot for the sake of the house, and i found the subtle effects a lot better than anything big.

 

[EsxPaul]

@Brutal Deluxe Thank you for the heads up on those bobbins. I didn't give much thought to them having to support all that weight whilst being mounted sideways on but you're absolutely right.

I do have some various sized self adhesive neoprene washers on their way to me so I'll give those a shot between the seat and mounts instead

 

[jamescarruthers]

@Brutal Deluxe Thank you for the heads up on those bobbins. I didn't give much thought to them having to support all that weight whilst being mounted sideways on but you're absolutely right.

I do have some various sized self adhesive neoprene washers on their way to me so I'll give those a shot between the seat and mounts instead

Even those Polymax ones only really support 10kg or so in shear — which might work ok for brake pedal pressures but probably not the constant weight of someone.

 

[vanka472]

Attached are the spec of mine. Mine are Polymax B3020M88-1. 32kg per corner. Me and seat + frame are about 85kg. So spare for dynamic loads. Shear might be an issue at 10kg/corner. Heavy braking is double that, so may need another rubber bump stop behind seat cross beam.

Should be fairly easy to find - www.rpmrubberparts.com/stock-parts/category/vibration-control-products/flex-bolt-sandwich-mounts

>Do you have to worry about the whole seat moving from the weight transfer while braking?

That is my observation. And I don't know how long the bobbin will take it. I'll ask Polymax.

Thanks CRMS, I didn't even think about sheer while braking, so this was a good thought in the long run.

So far I’ve found having fewer is better.
I figure there are a few different types of effects; constants, transients and events.

Constants are like the road texture or speed - they’re on all the time.

Transients are things like RPM - I set mine so it only comes on at idle and at just before the redline. Those are the only times I need to know about the engine vibrating. Idle is really just for fun, redline is useful as it’s like a shift light - it’s also quite high frequency so distinguishable.

Events are things like road bumps, kerbs etc These are usually to confirm I’m hitting kerbs whilst cornering.

The aim is to not allow multiple events to happen at once, for transients to typically be not overlapping and constants to be minimal and in the background that you can feel when everything else isn’t happening.

Also keep the frequency ranges distinct - so when they do mix you can tell what they are.

Essentially I view them much like shift lights but with vibrations - telling you what the car is doing.

This is where there will be lots of space for interpretation for sure. I will be running 8 exciters on the seat, and I have been trying to understand which effects to place where so that it will be easier to tune in a balanced effect over the entire seat.

I also wonder if you can't run a single 4 channel DSP to adjust all 8 exciters and then have them separate out into individual channels. Since the overall effects are stereo but in one location (ie: lower back) then going into a single 4 channel and outputting to 8 is what I was thinking. Granted the DSP has to allow that I suppose. I am a noob concerning that sort of hardware so I am still learning what works where.

I have 2 on my seat back, and 2 on my pedal plate.
Waiting for another 2 to arrive for the seat to make a total of 4.

I dont know what frequencies work best on certain effects, but you can tell distinct difference between what feels right and what certainly feels wrong!
This is what half of what would be helpful, what frequencies work best for different effects.
I find Sim Road Texture works well at higher frequencies as it feels more fine, whereas wheel slip/lock feel better lower down the frequency range due to a courser effect.
But then I cant get the sim road texture to switch in and out smoothly, due to my settings and its feels fake, its a very noticable switch exciter on, switch exciter off. This is the second part of what would be helpful.

I can screenshot my settings for people, but it is in no way set up by expert, infact a beginner.
And I have my settings dialled down quite a lot for the sake of the house, and i found the subtle effects a lot better than anything big.

My biggest concern is going to to be that "on/off" effect from the exciter. It might just mean needing to tuning the frequencies in a sweeping effect from exciter to exciter with overlap. I know James mentioned RPM effects, so possibly running the car as always on with the exciters or a large BK under the seat could provide a more consistent effect. As in a real car (unless your electric!) once the car is on you always feel that effect. So replecating that and having the effect move across the exciters as the rpms get higher might increase the overall experience. My only question being that if this is happening will other effects like road textures and such be lost with the overlap. Please keep in mind this is all speculation, as I do not have any transducers yet and haven't had a chance to actually put into practice anything that I am saying.

 

[graham123]

have the chance of getting one of these at a very good price..but are thay ok

100w Bodyshaker Borne Sound Converter 4ohm Top Bass Vibration As25s

 

[EsxPaul]

@graham123 I think it's going to be a case of you getting what you pay for.

Here's a video comparing it against a £50 Reckhorn.

 

[graham123]

right where do I find the £50 one?? and am I missing something here as the price retail for the one I have been offered For £50 is £116? so is it the same shaker?? MY BRAIN HURTS!!!
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333032732678

 

[graham123]

is this the £50 one from the video? Reckhorn BS-200i Bass Shaker

 

[Mr Latte]

is this the £50 one from the video? Reckhorn BS-200i Bass Shaker

Err, I actually recommended and linked you a place to buy the Reckhorn back in this post.

Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

So as these forums do not seem to have a place specific for general chat, questions or people sharing their own tactile experiences. I thought it might be a good thing to start one. General banter, or show your rigs, discuss what you have, perhaps what you like or dislike. Technical queries...

www.racedepartment.com

The 200i (improved) version has gold terminals the original/older version (200) had silver terminals. So you will know which is the new (i) model. For @£50 they are one of the best units to buy if you don't want to go the route of the exciters directly installed to a seat.

Below is the official page for it
Here

 

[EsxPaul]

right where do I find the £50 one?? and am I missing something here as the price retail for the one I have been offered For £50 is £116? so is it the same shaker?? MY BRAIN HURTS!!!
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333032732678

That one you were offered for £50 were being sold for even less than that just a few months back, before the pandemic. I've just had a search for one and I guess due to low supply, the prices have been inflated up over £100 which is way overpriced.

If I was dead set on a hard limit of around £50 then I'd personally go for the Reckhorn that's been recommended. It's much better value for money.

 

[graham123]

Thanks guys.. the reckhorn bs 200i is on its way

 

[EsxPaul]

The NX3000D has arrived and I'll need to swap out the supplied IEC cable for a UK spec. Going by the input numbers, a 3A fuse should be more than enough but I wanted to run it by you guys to see what you are using. Cheers

 

[graham123]

That looks a very nice piece of kit Paul ..enjoy