Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

We seem to be getting quite a few people signing up to the forums to pop in their tactile queries. I have also have had several sending me PMs. So to clarify my own situation at the moment.

Personally I am busy with my own build, also starting back to work. Do have some people in PM I was helping and will be finishing with them before helping others. So to make it easier than me responding to individuals on my PMs my advice is read through this thread do your own research like others done or seek help from others. Search the forums as other info can be gleaned from other threads too.

Additionally, I placed some links on the first page of this thread that might help even though some of the info is old and in general Simhub has become the best software for tactile, its a much wiser purchase for a small donation than spending quite a large sum of money on other popular options.

I mentioned a short while ago I was going to be less active, Had not posted in about a week but came back to correct some posts on the confusion with using AV receivers. Then, its easy to get locked into other posts as well.

Other regulars here are more than welcome to offer their own time help to those seeking some answers.

 

[graham123]

Oh Mr Latte... You seem some what peeved. As I was the last to post, I assume It was I that triggered you!!!
my Question was and is directed at anyone who could help me NOT just you. That said I have read most of this thread, but being a dumb pensioner alot of it goes over my head, I have also tried goolgeing my issue but did not get lucky. Sorry for upsetting you but was only asking for help ,that is what the sites for is it not? and I am premium member not someone who signed up for a quick answer

Many Thanks for all the help you have given others in the past. I'm sure it has gone a long way

 

[Mr Latte]

It's not just your post or am I upset, nor was I reading your request for help directly aimed at me. I get quite a few PMs from time to time and quite a few recently. The forums are full of info and many answers can be found with some searching. It would surprise you how many come to the forums within the first few posts they lay out a pile of help they want and then often when they get it they burn off into the sunset.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Need some help... I have a butt kicker gamer2 , but want to run front and rear shakers, I brought a 200watt car amp and 2 Vidsonix Phantom 4.25 inch tactile audio transducers, but did'nt get the punch i was after.. so how do I run the gamer and the car amp from the same sound card?? as when I tried it in simhub the Gamer takes both L/R channels another thing is my card is an oboard 5.1 surround sound but sets up as a 2channel High def audio?
ANY HELP PLEASE

I'll do my best... I think your first step is to change your soundcard settings in Windows so it's setup as 5.1. You should then hopefully have access to more channels through SimHub. If you can confirm if that's worked we can go from there.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Hi guys,

Newbie here. I'm probably going to do that annoying thing where I ask questions that have already been asked; admittedly I've not read all 133 pages, I have tried doing some reading and gone back to page 127, hopefully that's a reasonable enough effort.

I dived in at the deep end bought 4 Buttkicker Mini LFEs and now they're staring at me waiting to be attached to my rig and computer. I want to achieve front left, front right, back left, and back right feedback, but would settle for front and back feedback initially if it's more sensible to do this in stages/budget limiting.

As I understand I will need:
- At least one amplifier, maybe two, maybe four.
- Cables to connect the Butt Kickers to the amp;
- Cables to connect the amp to the PC;
- Maybe a sound card;
- Hopefully I'm not missing anything?

So let's address each of these items in order:
Amp:
- I've seen the Behringer iNuke NU1000 mentioned a lot. I can get my hands on one of these relatively cheaply, but I understand this will only be sufficient to provide me front and back as it is two channel? Also, is it not overkill? I believe the Mini LFEs handle up to 250w max and so we've got 500w of headroom. Could I not for the same/similar price as get two 500w two channels amps, or four 250w amps giving me the four corner feedback I am looking for? Also, what is the relationship between Watts and Ohms? It seems the iNuke for example can do 2 x 520 watts into 2 Ohms, or 2 x 300 Watts in 4 Ohms. What attributes am I looking for to make sure I can fully power my Mini LFEs? Can you guys recommend any alternatives to the iNuke that are less expensive that will meet my needs and enable me to get four corners running instead of just the two?
Cables:
- I guess this could potentially be dependant on which amp I get, or are they all the same?
Sound card:
- I do not have a soundcard. However, I use VR when racing and so sound is sent via the HDMI cable to my headset. When I am not in VR (e.g. playing other games) I use the SPDIF out optical port to connect to a wireless headset. If needed this could be unplugged. So on the back of my motherboard this potentially gives me (please forgive the non technical terms):
-- SPDIF out;
--Black jack port;
--Orange "CSUB" jack port;
--Red "Mic In" jack port;
--Green "Line Out" jack port;
--Blue "Line In" jack port;
--I also have a two jack ports on the front of my PC labelled as headset and microphone.
-Based on the above do I need a soundcard? If it helps my motherboard is a ASUS PRIME Z390-A Intel Socket 1151 Motherboard
- This is taken from my MB manual: View attachment 380781

Hopefully that gives you an idea of what I'm trying to do, appreciate there's a lot but I wanted to try and be as specific as I could and show I've done of my own research as well before coming here.

Thanks in advance!

I'm about to head to bed but I'll try to answer a couple of questions.

I get the feeling that reading a bit further back through the posts may have given you a bit more guidance of the preferred approach. You're aiming for a chassis layout and mimicking the feedback from the 4 corners/wheels. This can still be done but there are better ways of setting things up by placing shakers closer to body (on the seat, pedals, etc..) This has been covered many times on this thread.

I'm not familiar with powering mini-LFE's, so can't really help from experience. However, I can see that they're 4ohm, so that's what you need to look at when checking amp outputs. Having some headroom is definitely beneficial so you're not running the amp close to max for long stints.

You seemed to have grasped that each shaker requires a seperate channel. You can wire 2 in series, but it's really not advisable as it limits the amount of control you have with them.

You should definitely look in to isolation whichever approach you take to this. It's very important and worth the effort.

To my understanding, your soundcard should work fine for what you're trying to achieve. SimHub should see it as 2 soundcards. It should show the digital output as a 2nd card which you can ignore and continue to use for game audio.

I hope that's of some help. Please read further through the thread when you have time. A better understanding of the current "preferred" approach will be of great benefit to you.

 

[jamescarruthers]

I mounted some exciters properly on to my steel-framed seat today.

I isolated both the seat supports and the seat from the supports (not shown)

I attached the exciters to 40mm stainless penny washers and attached those to bolts that are then screwed into the unused floor mount threads.

The feeling in the seat is great. It's no doubt subtle, but it's there and adds to the immersion. Having been more aware recently when driving my car of the sensations the seat gives you — it's well beyond a road car in terms of vibrations. In fact I'd say it's about on par with the vibrations I've felt when being a passenger in a race car.

I am not all that interested in going for the"full on" simrig tactile experience i.e. replicating suspension movement and g-forces by way of vibrations and thuds — really just wanted to replicate the more subtle vibrations felt in a real car. This is mostly as I don't have any desire to upgrade the seat to a fibreglass one etc

I'll probably look at getting another two exciters for the front mounts also. It would essentially be 200W of power then.

 

[graham123]

I'll do my best... I think your first step is to change your soundcard settings in Windows so it's setup as 5.1. You should then hopefully have access to more channels through SimHub. If you can confirm if that's worked we can go from there.

Well long story short my M/board manual said 5.1 try various things to get it to work , but no joy in the end emailed MB site and my board has a 7.1 card, so got that sorted.. got gamer2 working as the rear and the phantom's with the car amp as front... Result "Bloody Rubbish" the gamer 2 end is fine ... the two phantoms are crap!!! I one is faulty as it rattles like a tin of stones, ut Im getting no feedback from them THEY DO SHAKE A BIT BUT NOT FEELING IT.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

Well long story short my M/board manual said 5.1 try various things to get it to work , but no joy in the end emailed MB site and my board has a 7.1 card, so got that sorted.. got gamer2 working as the rear and the phantom's with the car amp as front... Result "Bloody Rubbish" the gamer 2 end is fine ... the two phantoms are crap!!! I one is faulty as it rattles like a tin of stones, ut Im getting no feedback from them THEY DO SHAKE A BIT BUT NOT FEELING IT.

Sorry to hear that it's not worked out as planned. At least you've got the sound card side of things working. I'm not familiar with the shakers you're using but just had a quick look online and on an eBay description of them it says "This is not a Bass Shaker for under seats, this is full range audio". Pretty certain that's the problem here.

 

[graham123]

got mine from ebay this is the title
Vidsonix Phantom 4.25 inch Tactile Audio Transducer Speaker 'Butt Kicker Shaker' I have found the seller you mention and have email my ebay seller

 

[Mr Latte]

got mine from ebay this is the title
Vidsonix Phantom 4.25 inch Tactile Audio Transducer Speaker 'Butt Kicker Shaker' I have found the seller you mention and have email my ebay seller

Oh gees, your kidding right? This is an excellent example, to look at the specs of what you're buying or seek advice first if new to this or not sure. So why would these be performing like crap, lets see...

Product States:

NOTE: This is not a Bass Shaker for, under seats, this is full-range audio. Great for plate reverb, massage therapy, home theater, and other audio projects.

Frequency Response: 350Hz - 16KHz (depends on mounting surface)
- Impedance: 6.9 ohms@400Hz
- Max power: 70W max
- Resonant Frequency: 650Hz
- Dimensions: 4.25" diameter.
- Weight: 2.7 lbs

There are several fairly decent units available in the £30-£50 price range.
Would it not be wiser if new to this to ask people what they use or recommend for the budget you want to spend?

If not wanting an exciter based unit then I would recommend these for under £50
This thread can help you understand bass frequencies more or help you make better purchases.

 

[graham123]

this is the ad on ebay - www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vidsonix-Phantom-4-25-inch-Tactile-Audio-Transducer-Speaker-Butt-Kicker-Shaker/274095656811
and this is the title of ad -
Vidsonix Phantom 4.25 inch Tactile Audio Transducer Speaker 'Butt Kicker Shaker'
Note the words " BUTT KICKER SHAKER"
And nowhere on the ad does it state...NOTE: This is not a Bass Shaker for, under seats, this is full-range audio. Great for plate reverb, massage therapy, home theater, and other audio projects. so I think I've been ripped off
as the seller clearly implies use as a "Butt kicker"
I have just ordered
Bodyshaker Compact, Bass, Transducer, 30W, 8Ohm, Bass Vibration, AS23 A

• Frequency range 255Hz - 15 Hz
• 30Watts, impedance 8 ohms

 

[EsxPaul]

@graham123 Why not cancel your order and switch it over to either the Reckhorn shakers or Dayton exiters, depending on the effects you are going for?

I know you're trying to keep within a budget but the trade off is that you're ending up with items not fit for purpose and ultimately feeling disappointed. The hassle of fitting, trying them out, removing and returning them doesn't seem worth it to me and I'm pretty sure you are feeling the same by now.

 

[CRMS]

The frequency response gives it away "Frequency Response: 350 - 16KHz (depends on mounting surface)" as does "full range audio".
Not sure that the other one will be any better - Frequency range 255Hz - 15 Hz.
Compare with BKG2 which has the HF filter set at around 100Hz.
So don't think anything above 150Hz, possibly less, will do.

 

[vanka472]

deleted

 

[vanka472]

I mounted some exciters properly on to my steel-framed seat today.

I isolated both the seat supports and the seat from the supports (not shown)

I attached the exciters to 40mm stainless penny washers and attached those to bolts that are then screwed into the unused floor mount threads.

The feeling in the seat is great. It's no doubt subtle, but it's there and adds to the immersion. Having been more aware recently when driving my car of the sensations the seat gives you — it's well beyond a road car in terms of vibrations. In fact I'd say it's about on par with the vibrations I've felt when being a passenger in a race car.

I am not all that interested in going for the"full on" simrig tactile experience i.e. replicating suspension movement and g-forces by way of vibrations and thuds — really just wanted to replicate the more subtle vibrations felt in a real car. This is mostly as I don't have any desire to upgrade the seat to a fibreglass one etc

I'll probably look at getting another two exciters for the front mounts also. It would essentially be 200W of power then.


View attachment 380929

View attachment 380930

Did you only use the 2 that are shown in the image above? Just wondering your thoughts on that!

 

[jamescarruthers]

Did you only use the 2 that are shown in the image above? Just wondering your thoughts on that!

I think so, yes. If I added two more then for sure those things have more than enough power to add energy into the seat.

I have a plan to try out some bobbin style mounts instead of the rubber washers. Isolating the seat further means that more energy will go into the seat instead of the rig.

I think I may also try mounting the seat using the bottom mounts and thus remove the huge weight of the steel side mounts. In the way that I have mounted the exciters on penny washers and bolts, it means that I can quite easily then attach these to the seats side mounts. It's in a different plane, but to some degree vibration is vibration for what I want to do with it.

But I'll reiterate again, I am looking into recreating the vibrations in a seat rather than pseudo car or suspension movement.

 

[graham123]

@graham123 Why not cancel your order and switch it over to either the Reckhorn shakers or Dayton exiters, depending on the effects you are going for?

I know you're trying to keep within a budget but the trade off is that you're ending up with items not fit for purpose and ultimately feeling disappointed. The hassle of fitting, trying them out, removing and returning them doesn't seem worth it to me and I'm pretty sure you are feeling the same by now.

I have a gamer 2 for my seat (very happy with that) and thought a bit of front (pedal) sensation would be fun. dont want to shake myself to bits LOL. So lower powered shakers would do .( I think)... But I have very little if any understanding of all this electric/ sound jiggery pokery.( An Idiots guide would help) The more threads I read , the more confused I get???

All I seem to see is those with a "great set up" have spent loads(to me) of money on good stuff... but I cant buy a race horse with Donkey money. I would be more than happy to buy used kit as i did with the Gamer 2. but can not find anyone selling. getting to the stage where I just cant be arsed. but can you explain in (very) simple terms why the shaker I have ordered is no good and the Reckhorn/Dayton's are better. Many thanks

 

[jamescarruthers]

Sound comes in a range of frequencies. From low end bass rumble to high frequencies like a whistle or violin.

Anything that produces sound is optimised for a certain range. Often you can see this as a graph on a data sheet. The level of energy it produces is not "flat". It will peak at different frequency ranges. This is just because... physics... you can't easily make a speaker that is both good at low frequencies as well as high. This is why often in a home cinema you'll have your standard speakers along with a separate subwoofer to create the low-frequency rumbles and explosions.

The ones you've bought are "full range" meaning that they're designed to go all the way from low frequencies to high frequencies. Essentially it's designed to make audio that you can hear. If you want to use it for the frequency ranges you can feel, the low-end ones, then you'll be disappointed because it won't put out enough energy (volume) at those.

"Buttkickers" are optimised for low frequencies. They would be rubbish at trying to make high pitched noises.

That's why they won't work all that great.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

The frequency response gives it away "Frequency Response: 350 - 16KHz (depends on mounting surface)" as does "full range audio".
Not sure that the other one will be any better - Frequency range 255Hz - 15 Hz.
Compare with BKG2 which has the HF filter set at around 100Hz.
So don't think anything above 150Hz, possibly less, will do.

It's only the low Hz range that's of interest here. If they'll go down to 15Hz then they'll work great. SimHub effects can be setup to work at certain frequencies (or frequency ranges), so the higher frequency rating can be ignored. Beyond that, there's also the option through SimHub to set High and Low pass filters for each sound card.

 

[CRMS]

A good reference is a piano. Lowest note is 27.5Hz, which is in shaker territory. Middle C is 261.6 Hz - so any transducer at that frequency is going to be more audio than shaking. Highest note of a piano is 4186.01 Hz.