So with this train of thought, ACC failed as well. Have you forgotten how bad ACC was at launch? What sim wasn't janky at launch?Easy Angel Hernandez
He's not too far off the truth.
Personally, I don't think they needed to borrow money nor have they failed but I feel the game could have been in a better state when launched.
Tons of bugs, bad ai, MP and a subpar driving experience.
The driving aspect compared to other titles only got great after update 1.3....2.5yrs after release.
The game was gaining popularity last Nov through till March this yr but has been dropping off every month since.
Hopefully update 1.4 and summer nearing an end + some long awaited content will bump numbers up but I feel the poor MP and AI are keeping many away.
It's pretty sad jumping on to play in peak north America time to only see 10 players divided in 3 mp lobbies running GT3 in locked lobbies or no rating, damage or tire wear enabled.
Euro times isint much better.
The only good MP racing I've done since release was here at Race department...when the game didn't crash, server errors or players didn't get booted.
I have no doubt Reiza will eventually get the most out of the engine.....but the long game route seems to be what's holding them back.
Just look at all there past projects.
Excellent titles....very few players.
Sell me AMS2
- Thread starter JohnyUtah
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Junky or not it depends on who you ask, but somehow it managed not only retain release day user count but also skyrocket it over time even with the limited content ACC can offer.
There must be something different between how these two sims were received and matured over time after all.
EDIT: Forgot mandatory chart for illustrative purpose.
There must be something different between how these two sims were received and matured over time after all.
EDIT: Forgot mandatory chart for illustrative purpose.
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So you're not wanting to be sold on it, rather, you want to argue it. I'm not interested in arguing. If ACC is your flavor of choice, then cool. I own it, but haven't touched it much lately. Yeah, I ran it a few times in the last couple of months, but AMS2 has variety, and I'm currently not into GT racing ATM. Lastly, AMS2 is a game of variety, ACC is focused on one discipline. GT3 is currently the most popular form of motorsport for sim racers. They really are apples to oranges. Also, I don't really touch the GT cars in AMS2 either.Junky or not it depends on who you ask, but somehow it managed not only retain release day user count but also skyrocket it over time even with the limited content ACC can offer.
There must be something different between how these two sims were received and matured over time after all.
EDIT: Forgot mandatory chart for illustrative purpose.
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No, I haven't forgotten....but it also didn't launch with sub par driving physics.
Reiza released a worse version of project cars with less features enabled.
I have no problem with the madness engine or them rebuilding certain aspects of the engine, I just wish they would have either added on to what SMS did with PC2 or had of put more work into it before releasing it.
Doing either of those I feel would have benefited Reiza and lead to a larger following/player numbers.
As I have said in past comments, I have no doubt Reiza will push the limits of this engine....but after 10yrs of Project cars and 2+yrs of AMS I'm becoming slightly impatient of the "long development road" and fear that by the time they perfect it, it will become like AMS...an excellent "older gen sim" ?
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GT3 and F1 are simply the most popular race classes. For that reason Kunos chose to develop ACC and for that reason EA bought Codemasters that had the F1 license. They simply chose the most popular categories and Kunos had already success with AC1, so that also helped a lot of course. The same goes for the Project Cars franchise(popular content) until it became a mobile/kids game(3).
Reiza didn't do that, they just made what they preferred. Of couse this doesn't bring the largest group of buyers, so Reiza has to do everything that they can regading marketing to promote their game and to keep their multiplayer active. But they did the opposite, they didn't focus on multiplayer and they did zero marketing and even bad marketing(the demo and keeping that stupid demo online). Also the terrible launch of AMS2 (physics/car handling etc.) didn't help and it took way to long for them to fix it. Many youtubers/early adoptors were/are still even biased because of this, not everyone wants to try and try again(I'm an exception in this, I tried every version and saw huge improvements with every single patch). It's a real shame because atm AMS2 is the best that sim racing has to offer(I would even say "by far", since I'm a VR racer and I like the variety of content, it's just amazing how it drives now).
So I agree with what SwaggerJacker that comparing those titles in that way are like comparing apples to oranges. But there are some serious issues (now and from the past) that don't help the player count of AMS2. If these issues weren't there then the player count would have maybe been double/triple or even more; who knows?
Reiza didn't do that, they just made what they preferred. Of couse this doesn't bring the largest group of buyers, so Reiza has to do everything that they can regading marketing to promote their game and to keep their multiplayer active. But they did the opposite, they didn't focus on multiplayer and they did zero marketing and even bad marketing(the demo and keeping that stupid demo online). Also the terrible launch of AMS2 (physics/car handling etc.) didn't help and it took way to long for them to fix it. Many youtubers/early adoptors were/are still even biased because of this, not everyone wants to try and try again(I'm an exception in this, I tried every version and saw huge improvements with every single patch). It's a real shame because atm AMS2 is the best that sim racing has to offer(I would even say "by far", since I'm a VR racer and I like the variety of content, it's just amazing how it drives now).
So I agree with what SwaggerJacker that comparing those titles in that way are like comparing apples to oranges. But there are some serious issues (now and from the past) that don't help the player count of AMS2. If these issues weren't there then the player count would have maybe been double/triple or even more; who knows?
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"Reiza released a worse version of project cars with less features enabled."
Totally biased opinion. I disagree 100% First of all, it was never a "version" of PC. Reiza just used the engine. Totally different content. Add to it? How? In what way? It was never the same game. The target audience was different as well. AMS2, and even Stockcar Extreme were always focused mainly on Brazilian Motorsport. As was AMS2.
Project Cars 1/2 was more of a Shotgun spread. I don't get why people are still trying to compare the two as if they are the same. Only the engine is. And Reiza is continually improving the engine. AC,PC,PC2,ACC and R3E were all bashed by end users as well. So this is no surprise. A lot of end users "expect" certain things. Always have and always will. I give props to the folks who add to the games we play, be it content or just knowledge.
I have my gripes about AMS2 as well, but I don't speak as if I have in depth knowledge of development hurdles, staffing, licensing, funding, coding and a plethora of other factors influencing development cycles.
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Also, the physics weren't that stellar in ACC's infancy.
I should have worded that better, I was refering to launched with less features than PC2..... As engine features, building on previous code.
I'm well aware PC2 and AMS2 are completely different titles, meant for a different audience...etc..etc
At launch the game wasn't using the full capabilities of live track, sessions didn't carry over track rubbering or previous track settings, MP was neutered and I'm still not sure if loose surface physics are fully enabled?
Audio was pretty bad with tons of crackling and distortion
It launched with there unoptimized physic/ffb engine code from AMS and it had no championship mode.
All I'm saying, is it would have been nice if some of those features I listed were better optimized at launch.
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Thanks to this thread, I'm going to buy ams2 in the next sale!
(plus season pass, which makes it a bit too expensive without a sale for me)
I tried the demo and was like "eerrrrrhhh okay?"..
Good to read that I should ignore that experience and try out some real content in the current state!
On my g27, it felt really great and drove very well without any issues.
Apart from the "kerb of death" issue, that luckily never struck me!
However the multiplayer was a joke in some aspects.
The netcode was very good in my 5 clubraces that I did in the first 2 months but the starting grids got shuffled sometimes without a way to fix them so you could basically skip qualy altogether and when doing 2 races, it got shuffled again...
I then stopped racing in ACC due to the gt3 packs in rF2 and too many great AC clubraces here at RD.
I started racing in acc regularly in April this year and it's truly awesome racing! Thanks to dlss and new nvidia drivers, the power consumption is lower than in AC, while it looks great.
Before that, I had to melt my GPU with TAA at maximum + 150% resolution scale.
Anyway, great discussion with lots of infos in here! Gonna try ams2, thanks again!
(plus season pass, which makes it a bit too expensive without a sale for me)
I tried the demo and was like "eerrrrrhhh okay?"..
Good to read that I should ignore that experience and try out some real content in the current state!
I don't agree with this subjectively. I tried it basically on day one and drove it almost daily for 2 months in comparison to AC and rF2.
On my g27, it felt really great and drove very well without any issues.
Apart from the "kerb of death" issue, that luckily never struck me!
However the multiplayer was a joke in some aspects.
The netcode was very good in my 5 clubraces that I did in the first 2 months but the starting grids got shuffled sometimes without a way to fix them so you could basically skip qualy altogether and when doing 2 races, it got shuffled again...
I then stopped racing in ACC due to the gt3 packs in rF2 and too many great AC clubraces here at RD.
I started racing in acc regularly in April this year and it's truly awesome racing! Thanks to dlss and new nvidia drivers, the power consumption is lower than in AC, while it looks great.
Before that, I had to melt my GPU with TAA at maximum + 150% resolution scale.
Anyway, great discussion with lots of infos in here! Gonna try ams2, thanks again!
It's all subjective, and open to debate. Your take is subjective as well. Having said that, I think you're going to really dig AMS2. At present I'm using a custom ffb file "rFuktor"5.0. Man, the definition in the wheel is crazy. You can feel the tires loosing grip. From subtle, to ham footed stupidity Ask me how I know. Just feels amazing.Thanks to this thread, I'm going to buy ams2 in the next sale!
(plus season pass, which makes it a bit too expensive without a sale for me)
I tried the demo and was like "eerrrrrhhh okay?"..
Good to read that I should ignore that experience and try out some real content in the current state!
I don't agree with this subjectively. I tried it basically on day one and drove it almost daily for 2 months in comparison to AC and rF2.
On my g27, it felt really great and drove very well without any issues.
Apart from the "kerb of death" issue, that luckily never struck me!
However the multiplayer was a joke in some aspects.
The netcode was very good in my 5 clubraces that I did in the first 2 months but the starting grids got shuffled sometimes without a way to fix them so you could basically skip qualy altogether and when doing 2 races, it got shuffled again...
I then stopped racing in ACC due to the gt3 packs in rF2 and too many great AC clubraces here at RD.
I started racing in acc regularly in April this year and it's truly awesome racing! Thanks to dlss and new nvidia drivers, the power consumption is lower than in AC, while it looks great.
Before that, I had to melt my GPU with TAA at maximum + 150% resolution scale.
Anyway, great discussion with lots of infos in here! Gonna try ams2, thanks again!
The cars available in the demo are seriously underwhelming. I didn't try them until a few months ago to see what people were complaining about. I can only assume Reiza are looking at the conversation rate from the demo and feel it's not affecting sales, but it does seem like a rather significant oversight.
Personally, it's become my main sim over the past year. I had a period where I wasn't able to commit to on-line races (I think my last AC race was when you were helping me with telemetry at brands) and I was looking for a decent off-line experience. The GT1 seemed to feel really good and I had some great races against the AI with it, so I ended up gravitating to it more and more. Redvaliant then started up the Tuesday night races with a smorgasbord of content and now I pretty much race it exclusively. There have been a few periods where glitches with pit stops or disconnects have affected peoples race, but it seems to have stabilised recently.
You have to learn its foibles, just like most of the others I guess. For example my DD doesn't behave well on the default and default+ FFB settings and tends to suffer from positive feedback, but the rFuktor custom file mentioned above works much better for me. Performance in evening/night races can be pretty brutal so it's important to check the race conditions.
I agree, the game is a bit pricey but I'll give you a tip to save a little bit of money when you decide to purchase it.
I'm not sure how steam pricing is in your area but AMS2 goes for $46 and the season pass $116 here in Canada.
The game usually goes on sale for 50% off but the most I've seen the season pass drop was like 10-15% and was still close to $90.
I choose to buy each dlc individually as the older tracks I've seen recently on sale for 75%which was roughly $4-6 and I got the racing USA packs each for $7-8.
If you choose the season pass it will include the future racing USA pt. 3 which from the beta forms will include 3 oval tracks (was hoping for more)
2 new oval tracks and one being added to a current track.
1 Merc gt4 and ginetta gt3, to be honest I'm not even sure if that content is for USA pt.3 or missing content from pt 1&2?...were still waiting on classic spa and nords.
The adrenaline pack no word on content but it will be off-road content....hoping it will be rallyx and off-road trucks?
And not just a lancer and street super truck from AMS.
And I believe one more dlc...I think it was supposed to be street cars?
I choose this route cause I wasn't exactly blown away by the game at launch and the dlc's were going on sale within a month of there release and I've yet to spend 50% of the full priced season pass .
Update 1.3 really improved the driving experience, and the upcoming 1.4 is supposed to improve on that so I'm really looking forward to that.
If they can improve the ai to be more Racey, rumors have it they are working on it, I'll be really happy with the title.
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Great post! Yeah, the AI is quite interesting. Some races the AI make me want to scream. Other times I saying "WTF, that was was a dope azz move". They can be opportunistic and overtake you while fighting with another vehicle. So cool. I'm also looking forward to the next update.
I have 2 beefs with the current AI using 115-120 strength, depending on the track, and 100 aggression.
-Multiclass faster classes get stuck behind slower classes and can't figure out how to pass.
-On Nords, they can't hold a line and when you pull up to the rear of an ai they do a weird lateral wobble that looks completely unrealistic and moves out of the way. following the ai through a corner they run weird lines on the exit like they are going wide and slow down so you can always pass on the inside and then disappear in your mirror.
On the upside, I haven't been rammed
It feels like I have an imaginary force field around my car and when I get in a certain distance of the ai, they just move out of the way.
-Multiclass faster classes get stuck behind slower classes and can't figure out how to pass.
-On Nords, they can't hold a line and when you pull up to the rear of an ai they do a weird lateral wobble that looks completely unrealistic and moves out of the way. following the ai through a corner they run weird lines on the exit like they are going wide and slow down so you can always pass on the inside and then disappear in your mirror.
On the upside, I haven't been rammed
It feels like I have an imaginary force field around my car and when I get in a certain distance of the ai, they just move out of the way.
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I don't experience this. My AI settings change all the time because their strength varies from car to car and track to track. Having said that, I haven't touched the Nord since Forza 1. I really need to revisit that monster.I have 2 beefs with the current AI using 115-120 strength, depending on the track, and 100 aggression.
-Multiclass faster classes get stuck behind slower classes and can't figure out how to pass.
-On Nords, they can't hold a line and when you pull up to the rear of an ai they do a weird lateral wobble that looks completely unrealistic and moves out of the way. following the ai through a corner they run weird lines on the exit like they are going wide and slow down so you can always pass on the inside and then disappear in your mirror.
On the upside, I haven't been rammed
It feels like I have an imaginary force field around my car and when I get in a certain distance of the ai, they just move out of the way.
The whole band wagon logic has no real connection to reality. By that logic Gran Turismo 7 with 184,169 Players Online is something like 20 times better than AC or ACC. Lots of factors go into how many people play a certain game. If you have a real issue about a game that is one thing, but more people play something is in my mind not a real complaint. I have never got online in AMS2 and not found a online match with in minutes.
Oh hey, this is off topic but the Perseids meteor shower is peaking this week end. If the skies are clear where you live go check them out..Full moon but the Perseids produce. Look to the North West and be patient, its not the 4th of July it might take 20 to even 40 mins but they come in spurts and sometimes big ones.
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Not available on PC unfortunately, but I am wondering if new Forza Motorsport coming next year is going to steal the show from AC and AMS2.
I wouldn't care about GT7 but JohnyUtah has a point here so did SwaggerJacker about the same subject. The new Forza will take some from AC maybe; the type of drivers that I described in my earlier post about AC on page one of this thread, are Forza drivers imo. But AMS2 is really an difference audience(small niche hardcore sim racers) so I don't expect it.
