AC RSS GT-M(GT3) @ Road America - Sunday 6th August 2023

[KFMaster]

Hey Dai;
Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations at Road America. I was wondering what happened to you…. I was looking forward to catching back up to you after my early race run off. To be honest, I think we’ve all had races like that. In fact sounds very familiar to one of my first online races right on the same track where I overshot my pit spot and couldn’t figure out how to initiate the pit process. Lost so much time waiting for something to happen it wasn’t even funny.

Thanks Dominic for the encouragement!

Yea, I figure it is all part of the learning, but some times it felt like a blow that knock the wind out of me just when I thought I was onto something But it is all my own mistakes that needs to be worked out.

It was that race in fact that motivated me to try to step up my game and take more care to avoid mistakes. I’ve discovered that minimizing mistakes is just as, if not more important than putting in fast lap times. Chalk it up to a learning experience.

I bet you won’t forget to load up your setup again!
Keep on rolling!

Yes, I have definitely lost more time from mistakes than going a couple of seconds per lap slower in most of the races I did so far. That is the thing I am working on!

Hopefully better at Jarama!

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks Colin, Dominic and Paul for the tip on accessing and adjusting the pit strategy on the flight. I will have to figure that out. I do have those up/down left/rights arrows on my steering wheel. I actually configure the up/down for brake bias, but I am far away from doing brake bias in the race. Although I can tell when the car's handling characteristics are changing, I can't ping point what is contributing to the change. Will be a while to get there. So I might as well remap them for pit strategy, a much more practical use for me now.

Thanks again!

Brake Bias:
When your car becomes unstable when braking and especially when lifting the brakes (trail braking) into a corner. If your rear wants to step out, it's time to put the brake bias forward!

Arrow keys: if you're in reach of a keyboard, you can also use its arrow keys instead of the wheel joystick/buttons.
They are always mapped to the put menu.


Setup: same happened to me in Barcelona with the Agile Fought the car as much as I could, crashed 2x, hit someone 1x and was super frustrated about wtf was going on.
Happens to the best, don't blame yourself too much. I also had to disconnect before the race and forgot to load it again.


I would've loved to join you at this one since I know the track very well from the GT1 race. But I'm currently in Zürich, doing some real life driving practice, starting from Hamburg with only 1 night at half distance
Already had to do some "Moving under braking", when a stupid biker overtook a caravan in a turn+crest, saw us and started to wobble...
Instand ABS & slightly touching the grass on the outside, while lifting the brakes slightly.
Little flickering of the ESP led but not much happening at the wheel.
Bike made it through in the middle without touching anyone.
My partner just said "Well, I guess your simracing was of good use today"


@Kek700 I put down a note in my to do app to look into the clutching issue. Maybe there's a solution without you needing a clutch pedal

 

[Interslice]

Finally I got over the disappointment to come back to this thread...

These things happen, all builds experience Tough when it happens at a race your really into, but least now you now what happens if you exit

I had a good start, saw a big gap in front of Brian, hesitated but decided to take it any way, this is racing right? Hope didn't cause any heartache for you Brian. Into turn one, hmm, this car was not handling right. The problem became more apparent in the ensuing turns. I had to adjust my driving drastically.

No worries, intent was fine, I didn't expect it, but I was leaving too much safe space. Thing was
you clipped the nose of my car right before braking in front of me, which caused some carnage. If you're going for something like that still need to be sure it can be made cleanly. Not sure you noticed the initial tap.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Finally I got over the disappointment to come back to this thread. I would have though this was my best prepared race, yet it was all screwed up before the race even started (unbeknown to me of course).

I had a good start, saw a big gap in front of Brian, hesitated but decided to take it any way, this is racing right? Hope didn't cause any heartache for you Brian. Into turn one, hmm, this car was not handling right. The problem became more apparent in the ensuing turns. I had to adjust my driving drastically.

Adapt and overcome.

On second lap, just when I started to get a handle of the car and made a good turn in into turn 5, I saw a flash of green showing up at the apex. And I hit Brian. Sorry Brian! Good thing I didn't cause any more damage then just helping you stay close to the apex.

Then into turn 14, Tom made a nice dive inside to pass me, but I was able to drive my normal line and caught up to him onto the main straight. Emboldened by my move at the start, I decided to not back off and kept gas planted. I got slightly ahead of Tom before turning into turn 1. To be safe, I braked early to make sure I hit apex tight and didn't drift out. Just before the apex, I saw Tom going for it too, we touched and spun together.

After that, just trying to adjust my driving to make the best lap time I could. Then it was time to pit. Pulling into the pit nothing happened. Hmm, did I overshoot the pit? Quick, back up and do it again. Still nothing happened. Then it dawned on me. I had not loaded my setup!!! After quali, I exit the game (for stupid reason), then forgot to reload my setup. No wonder the car handled funny. That default setup is over a second slower and drove very differently than the setup I was using (courtesy of Carsten).

Been there, done that, burned the T shirt.

Of course when it rains it pours. As I was reacquainting with the good setup and getting better lap time, Jim started to tell me to pit. Didn't I just pit? I looked at the AcruFuel, it showed -5L. Could it be CrewChief has a bug I motored on disregarding Jim's chant about pit lane will close. And then I was disqualified for not adding at least 1 liter of fuel.

I once started a 25min race on Quali fuel, so had to pit from P2.
Could have puked ball bearings for my stupidy.

from that day onwards I always check fuel loads before entering the grid.
if i don´t see the expected amount i know i cocked up somewhere and still have (a little) time to get it right.

Experience is the lesson AFTER the test!!

Oh well, I have Jarama now looking forward to. What looks like another great track san chicane. Will not exit game between practice, quali, and race this time!

Thanks as always to Brain for put together the races and especially finding all those nice circuits!

BTW, is there a way to reconfigure the pit strategy while in the race without doing ESC-back to pit?

Depending on your wheel it may may not accept binding pit menue to "the cross"
My 7way funky did not like it, i had to use Joy2key to convert switch to key press.
(another thing to start up before racing ( as Admin, Dumbass)

 

[Kek700]

No problem @RasmusP it is usually not a problem, I have a wheel with clutch paddles on it, not keen on the wheel, but I am waiting for the never to be released cube control Mercedes wheel.

 

[Interslice]

Ye your wheel needs a d-pad to pickup the pit controls, afaik. Worth checking before you commit to a wheel. Handy for adding a lap of fuel or switching to plan b!

 

[Interslice]

No problem @RasmusP it is usually not a problem, I have a wheel with clutch paddles on it, not keen on the wheel, but I am waiting for the never to be released cube control Mercedes wheel.

That looks awesome Ernie. Hope it works out well

 

[RasmusP]

Just got a few minutes to cut the dashcam footage. Bought it 3 weeks ago after a friend could've needed one when he was blamed and no witnesses where to be found.
I zoomed in a bit for the important part of the screen.
Very interesting to watch this.. A bit like watching the replay of a race!
Apparently, the abs never really triggered and I decided to focus on the best line, rather than reducing speed.
As usually with 180° wide-angle footage, it doesn't look very spectacular, lol.
But touching the grass on the right was pretty scary

 

[eN1xes]

Just got a few minutes to cut the dashcam footage. Bought it 3 weeks ago after a friend could've needed one when he was blamed and no witnesses where to be found.
I zoomed in a bit for the important part of the screen.
Very interesting to watch this.. A bit like watching the replay of a race!
Apparently, the abs never really triggered and I decided to focus on the best line, rather than reducing speed.
As usually with 180° wide-angle footage, it doesn't look very spectacular, lol.
But touching the grass on the right was pretty scary

dude is crazy you can actually see his brain going from a slow down behind the caravan but too much angle and braking from i have to pass more speed wooahh thanks im alive adrenaline pumping blood over the moon :'D

 

[dbx71]

dude is crazy you can actually see his brain going from a slow down behind the caravan but too much angle and braking from i have to pass more speed wooahh thanks im alive adrenaline pumping blood over the moon :'D

you're too kind. 'crazy' isn't the word i was thinking when i saw this guy's maneuver. 'stupid' is more like it. this is how guys on motorbikes wind up flying through the air, questioning their life decisions...
he's just being reckless, also putting other people's lives in danger since something like this can provoke an accident.

 

[RasmusP]

you're too kind. 'crazy' isn't the word i was thinking when i saw this guy's maneuver. 'stupid' is more like it. this is how guys on motorbikes wind up flying through the air, questioning their life decisions...
he's just being reckless, also putting other people's lives in danger since something like this can provoke an accident.

Yep.. My first thought when I spotted him was "wtf a full throttle maniac".
But when he started wobbling, I could almost smell the poo in his pants while he was questioning his life choices.

I'm pretty glad about having the 2-channel dashcam now. If this situation would've been gone the worst way, I'm sure I would've been looking forward to an investigation, lawsuit and court appointments.
Having my 66 km/h with the tempo limit = 70 km/h and the braking + evasive action on tape might've become handy!

 

[stigs2cousin]

Good that you kept your cool at the steering wheel, simracing is actually a very good training for that. So your partner is absolutely right, but I won´t snitch if you don´t want me to

About speed reduction, you left a lot on the table there. But, the more important part was to keep the car stable, especially when "taking green". Thank god IRacings " one blade of grass" is not realistic, at least when the grass is dry and the road side firm.

To do both, brake full tilt, steer gently and keep the car stable you need training and practice.
(That´s what road safety trainers are for )

Willkommen - ADAC Fahrsicherheitszentrum Rhein-Erft

“Fahrsicherheitstraining – begeisternd. professionell. schonend und sicher Sei der Beste, der Du sein kannst!

www.fahrsicherheitstraining.de.com

Hope you poured yourself a cold one, well done mate

 

[RasmusP]

Good that you kept your cool at the steering wheel, simracing is actually a very good training for that. So your partner is absolutely right, but I won´t snitch if you don´t want me to

About speed reduction, you left a lot on the table there. But, the more important part was to keep the car stable, especially when "taking green". Thank god IRacings " one blade of grass" is not realistic, at least when the grass is dry and the road side firm.

To do both, brake full tilt, steer gently and keep the car stable you need training and practice.
(That´s what road safety trainers are for )

Willkommen - ADAC Fahrsicherheitszentrum Rhein-Erft

“Fahrsicherheitstraining – begeisternd. professionell. schonend und sicher Sei der Beste, der Du sein kannst!

www.fahrsicherheitstraining.de.com

Hope you poured yourself a cold one, well done mate

Thanks for the kind words!

We actually had a lot of rain, mixed with some awesome sunny weather in between during that drive so the grass was far from dry, but I barely touched it anyway. I aimed for right at the edge of it, like a good simracer using all the track without spinning

I actually did an ADAC driver training a few years ago, including snow simulation and the famous "Schleuderplatte", where sensors sense you'd axles and then shove your rear axle randomly to the left or right, punching you into a spin.
But: that was with my old 1997 C-class that had only abs, no esp. And RWD.
Now we've got a 2018 Skoda Fabia.

Instructor told us to slam the brakes and countersteer but after spinning the first 2x when doing this, I started to catch the initial slide first, while holding a bit of throttle and THEN slam the brakes. Way more stable...

So I guess by memory of the "instant abs" was actually overwritten by that driver training experience, stopping my foot from destabilising the car.

No idea what would've been better on Sunday, but my steering stayed very accurate and I'd like to think that slamming the brakes wouldn't have added more space than moving as far to the right as I did.
Both might've become unstable and risky for us.

Poured me a very nice cold one in the evening

 

[stigs2cousin]

As stated before it´s the result that counts.
From the Video I estimate you had roughly two seconds between seeing the idiot and him being alongside the car towing the camper.

Take the usual 1sec reaction time, 1sec emergency braking would allow you to slow from 70km/h (20m/sec) to round about 5okm/h (14m/sec) I´d call that usable space

On the other hand there´s no predicting what the driver behind you would have done, see statement Nr 1

I btw had almost the same situation driving B258 from Adenau up to "The Ring"

Differences where:
roundabout 100km/h
long right hand turn
both oncoming trafic and idiot drove large SUVs
I´m completely sure my ABS worked full tilt as I´ve been training that for 30 years.
no dashcam, GoPro (for the Ring) was off
I didn´t check what the driver behind me was doing, braking was (muscular) automatic and I concentrated on steering

In the end no cars, humans or underpants were harmed, see statement Nr 1

It was a good day

Oh yeah, and your remembering the wrong exercise of the day (boys )

Schleuderplatte has nothing to do with evading dangerous obstacles, it´s about car control and, at least for some of us, fun

The exercise you "forgot" about was "emergency braking with evasive steering"

 

[RasmusP]

I was very happy that it was "just" a motorcycle and not a car and especially not a big one!
Glad you got out of it unharmed too

Schleuderplatte has nothing to do with evading dangerous obstacles, it´s about car control and, at least for some of us, fun

The exercise you "forgot" about was "emergency braking with evasive steering"

No no, I remembered it right, just didn't explain enough hehe.
I was thinking about getting on the grass at full ABS, risking a spin due to the weight shifted forward and the rear being light.

We also did the emergency evasion on Teflon. The best evasion (if not getting the full wall of fountains without a gap) was to only hit the ABS shortly at first to reduce the speed, while keeping the car almost straight and then basically trailbrake towards the gap and go into the ABS again as soon as the steering was enough.
Keeping the ABS active all the time would cause massive understeer, hitting the fountain closest to the gap, as the car would neither turn enough, nor brake enough.

Just braking straight was more or less enough, depending on the moment the fountains shot up.
But maybe my C-class had too much allowed slip in the ABS. Felt a bit like GT3 ABS at a less restricting level, lol.

Both exercises came into play in my situation, I guess.
I should find a big, empty parking lot on a wet day and try to steer while hitting the ABS and see if my FWD Fabia becomes unstable too or behaves like on rails...

Until then, I just hope for fewer idiots on the route back to Hamburg

Btw: do you guys notice the oncoming caravan braking hard or didn't he really brake at all?
You can see his brake lights switching off on the rear view but I don't really see his nose dipping when spotting me...
If a crazy biker would overtake me before a crest in a turn, I'd be getting on the edge of my camping dishes starting to fly!

 

[stigs2cousin]

I think we have a lot to talk about.

ABS on the skidpad is not ABS on tarmac, we have not had a look at your tyres yet.
You´ll be surprised what a car can do on tarmac with regard to braking distance/stable steering.

When you have the feeling you have to trail brake crew chief cocked up the tyre choice.

And about the grass, the danger is real, on the other hand getting rid of 20km/h should take care of that as we have established that you know how to keep a car stable.

About the caravaner, most of them are scared shitless about braking, let alone emergency braking. And the rest didn´t even dare to think about it ("Et hatt noh ima jutjejange"/ Kölsches Grundgesetz)

But this is all a bit much for an internet forum, these things can´t be learned on teamviewer

 

[RasmusP]

I need to find an empty parking lot soon and do some tests
GPS shows my speed came down from 66 km/h to 32 km/h when the bike flew past, not too shabby, but I could really need some training on dry tarmac with the Fabia.
I'm not sure if I somehow forgot that the gap behind me was very big. I normally look into the mirror quite frequently to keep an overview.

Anyway, just glad everyone came out of it in one piece

 

[Kek700]

***** Anyway, just glad everyone came out of it in one piece :****

That’s all that really matters in the end.

 

[stigs2cousin]

***** Anyway, just glad everyone came out of it in one piece :****

That’s all that really matters in the end.

"Hauptsache" (most important thing)

I need to find an empty parking lot soon and do some tests

I´ll pm you some measurements

GPS shows my speed came down from 66 km/h to 32 km/h when the bike flew past, not too shabby, but I could really need some training on dry tarmac with the Fabia.

Should have known you counter with data
(I´m loving it)

So in the end the data contradicts our perceived string of events, absolutely inconthievable:

Looks like you did use your brakes efficiently, so you executed the plan well.
Your trainer would be proud

I'm not sure if I somehow forgot that the gap behind me was very big. I normally look into the mirror quite frequently to keep an overview.

That´s normal, in such a situation the mental capacity is "focussed on the threat" or impolitely put breaks down to "one channel"computing", everything else goes away or if you are well trained "runs in the background".
As I may have mentioned once or twice you did better than most.

 

[Kek700]

Thanks Dominic for the encouragement!

Yea, I figure it is all part of the learning, but some times it felt like a blow that knock the wind out of me just when I thought I was onto something But it is all my own mistakes that needs to be worked out.



Yes, I have definitely lost more time from mistakes than going a couple of seconds per lap slower in most of the races I did so far. That is the thing I am working on!

Hopefully better at Jarama!

Rasmus is as good as it gets for advice, so take him up on his offer.
But I will just say something I always emphasize,.
Setups up are mainly to keep you on the track, help the car turn safely and help you accelerate safely out of the corner
If for one moment I thought it was paramount in bridging the gap between Jason and Me, I would be doing setups 24/7. ( note the “you” bit, if I had the ability I would be destabilising my set ups to go quicker, for me that is not possible )
You can without doubt, with some help and a lot of hard work become much better,
But your ability was plugged into at birth, as I said above there is a lot you can do, but driving an unstable car is not a clever way to start.
The best person also for advice would be Robert or Colin, unlike me their improvement is reasonably short term.
Unlike me who has take ages to move from the level of incompetment to slightly incompetent.