AC Round 12 of 23 Formula Agile@Hungaroring1988 Thu, 20th July 2023

[RasmusP]

Sorry Bob, you got my posts completely wrong
The words that were directly towards you really were just:
"Did you set them up correctly? Since I don't know you at all, here are pictures just to be sure. If you know your stuff, ignore them. Maybe they are good for others who don't know about this yet too, so why not post them."

I didn't want to sound disrespectful or question your skills or anything in that regard, I never do this.
Your reply could've just been "Yes Rasmus, I know how to set them up, but I didn't really like it and I prefer my 49" single monitor."

I would never question a statement/opinion like that!

About your CV/Resume: It's not about having the general skill to do things. With software, it's mostly an issue of not knowing that some features even exist and no matter how experienced someone is, one never knows everything.
Setting up triples correctly apparently was something you'd consider a natural task for someone with your skills and experience.
In my experience, this is never to be expected.
I know very very much about computers and all that but if you'd tell me that I was missing a nice quick-edit button somewhere in the nvidia driver, I'd be totally baffled how I could miss it all these years, but I wouldn't be surprised about it haha.

I never mean to ask about these things in any disrespectful way. But I'm definitely guilty of very often going a bit too far with "I better write this down just in case to save us 3 follow-up posts" and you're not the first person to feel about it being a disrespectful behaviour.
I just like to note down the next 3 steps in a flowchart in advance

In any case, I feel very much attacked by your post but I get where it came from. So I guess we now have the same bunch of negative emotions in us and can start fresh

I will still post my drawings about the flat/curved/triple projection. Not for a discussion with you. Dai (and Carsten) seem to be interested.

 

[Bob Luneski]

You are entitled to your opinion. I apparently am not. It's unfortunate that missing a setup button in a sim that I've never raced is proof to you that I know nothing. Yes, I am an idiot for engaging in such a pointless discussion. I'll not be posting in the forums further out of fear. Im not sure I'll continue in the championship, but may occasionally join a club race.

 

[Bob Luneski]

Deleted

I'm done. Sorry to have caused such turmoil. I will cease to bother you all any further. Peace out

 

[RasmusP]

So Rasmus, if you are THAT talented or do put in the work you can achieve the same laptimes on single screen.

For earthlings triples make live easier, they make racing a lot safer for all of us.

Absolutely agree, yep! I'd love to have the space for triples.. I still miss the apex at the Silverstone hairpin after more than 200 laps on my 34" 21:9 monitor

could you elaborate a bit on what is it about the 49" ultrawide that gives the "massive distortion regarding depth"?

I think we misunderstood: The "massive" distortion would only occur with something like a 600R 49". 1000R are still fine, although the distortion is already noticeable for me.

My take is that the wrong triple setup is wrong because the the sim is setup for a flat wide screen so it looks messed up with the sides screens being setup in an angle. And the ultrawide is just mild case of it.

Yep, exactly. Dirt Rally doesn't support true triple screen for example. In that case, triples are pretty wild but you feel damn fast haha.
With a 32:9 monitor it's wayyy better! It's a mild and smoothed case of it

Would be interesting to see a screen shot of the ultrawide running with a sim that has the proper correction, i.e., image rendered by the sim to account for the right R and width of the screen.

Yeah I'd love that too...
Here are two pictures showing the curvature correction in ACC, which sadly stretches out the resolution in the center and might give blurry results.
Looking at both at the same time, I barely see the difference but putting them in fullscreen and then switching back and forth shows a massive difference.

0.0:

1.0 (max):

 

[Kek700]

the contact with me feels like you was with a single monitor no problem anyway

If you insist on overtaking me all the time, what do you expect.

 

[eN1xes]

If you insist on overtaking me all the time, what do you expect.

if you leave a space for a car what you... expect me to do

 

[Kek700]

 

[stigs2cousin]

if you leave a space for a car what you... expect me to do

"When you go for a gap that isn´t there anymore we both die"

said no racing driver ever.

And this is not an attack on you Fulvio, you are respectfull when you make us look bad.

Dammit I want you to drive +75kgs with 50% restrictor.

 

[HF2000]

Dammit I want you to drive +75kgs with 50% restrictor.

With the right deposit on my account that can be arranged!

 

[RasmusP]

For Dai:
This is from an nvidia demo. They planned something like "native triplescreen support" from inside the nvidia control panel. Which would've been absolutely awesome, but sadly never came to existence..

The important bit starts at 6:50:

Some pictures from that + my own drawing:

Non-corrected but angled monitors:

Corrected projection:

Taking this and creating some really not-accurate drawing:

Looking at the 2 dots on the very left of the "projection plane" (flat line vs curved line), you can see that taking the existing dots from the flat plane and simply bending the plane would result in the dots being way too far away from each other.
They are a lot closer to each other on the curved plane.

If you now look at the ACC pictures I've uploaded further up, you can see that the projection correction at 1.0 does exactly that. It squeezes the vision towards the edges closer together.

Sadly, there's no game yet that can switch between projection settings.
I hope UE5 might push for something like it so others can follow...
Would be awesome to type in your curvature and get a "correct" projection from the get go.




It gets quite fancy towards the end regarding VR and other screens:

 

[stigs2cousin]

Gotta love the simple stuff:

enable surround, enter your values for distance, angle and screen size into AC triple screen and Bob´s your projectionist

Yeah, I had to look this one up, too

 

[RasmusP]

Gotta love the simple stuff:

Hehe I had a course at university about this. Called "Darstellende Geometrie", where we had to project simple objects into different "planes". Hurts my brain looking at it but once practices it's simply "drawing a line from the "plane line" to the object-edge" and then "measuring the distance from that point to the previous plane and drawing a point with the same distance behind the next plane".
These sentences sound absolutely awful haha. Here's a picture
This would pretty easily also work with a curved plane. Just do exactly the same. Drawing a line, measuring distance, "projecting" it.
I don't really get why it's not implemented anywhere yet but I have no idea about how this projection is done in rendering engines...

enable surround, enter your values for distance, angle and screen size into AC triple screen

Hehe yep, the end result isn't that complex to set up if you get the information how to do it.
I'd say it would be pretty straight forward to make it a circular bend too, with a specific fov matching a specific curvature radius.
The radius isn't even needed, if the bend is part of a circle and not some parabolic thingy.

 

[HF2000]

Hehe I had a course at university about this. Called "Darstellende Geometrie", where we had to project simple objects into different "planes". Hurts my brain looking at it but once practices it's simply "drawing a line from the "plane line" to the object-edge" and then "measuring the distance from that point to the previous plane and drawing a point with the same distance behind the next plane".
These sentences sound absolutely awful haha. Here's a picture
This would pretty easily also work with a curved plane. Just do exactly the same. Drawing a line, measuring distance, "projecting" it.
I don't really get why it's not implemented anywhere yet but I have no idea about how this projection is done in rendering engines...
View attachment 682990


Hehe yep, the end result isn't that complex to set up if you get the information how to do it.
I'd say it would be pretty straight forward to make it a circular bend too, with a specific fov matching a specific curvature radius.
The radius isn't even needed, if the bend is part of a circle and not some parabolic thingy.

OMG! Reading this I started sweating instantly by the memories of my math classes in school!!!

 

[maxilogan]

Well, ok, I know I'm a little bit late and after all this discussion I may sound a little simplistic but hey, battling for positions in the back of the field have never been so fun! This track really brought the enjoyment back, thanks to @Shed 17 @KFMaster @gearwhine @HF2000 @Boukâh and all the ones that I may have forgot for the fun.

Dai, with regards to the second race, I didn't stall, technically. I just found myself furiously revving but then I realized I did not engage the first gear once done, my start was lightning fast

Congrats to the podium finishers (@H_Belane super race for you!) and Han for hosting as usual.

Unfortunately family duties will keep me far from Spa this week, I don't think I will be able to join. If so, have fun everyone!

 

[Kek700]

This as a subject is very complex, when someone turns up and races on racedepsrtment. You have not a clue to knowing how fast they are, how fast they are going to subsequently become, their equipment, their race craft knowledge, how much they are aware of, their computer, computer knowledge, how old they are , where they live, ( socially, we all are programmed from our environment, Italians don't not think the same as the British ).

So an answer from someone or a general statement cannot in or any way take all of this into account., mostly you just have to make assumptions.
( and we all know assumptions are usually incorrect )

Bleeding obvious, but I thought I would state it anyway,

 

[KFMaster]

Absolutely agree, yep! I'd love to have the space for triples.. I still miss the apex at the Silverstone hairpin after more than 200 laps on my 34" 21:9 monitor

I think we misunderstood: The "massive" distortion would only occur with something like a 600R 49". 1000R are still fine, although the distortion is already noticeable for me.

Yep, exactly. Dirt Rally doesn't support true triple screen for example. In that case, triples are pretty wild but you feel damn fast haha.
With a 32:9 monitor it's wayyy better! It's a mild and smoothed case of it

Yeah I'd love that too...
Here are two pictures showing the curvature correction in ACC, which sadly stretches out the resolution in the center and might give blurry results.
Looking at both at the same time, I barely see the difference but putting them in fullscreen and then switching back and forth shows a massive difference.

0.0:
View attachment 682956

1.0 (max):
View attachment 682960

Thanks Rasmus for posting the comparisons!

It is pretty hard to tell the difference in 3-d perception. Yes, flipping back and forth shows the two renderings being very different, but it does not seem to make any perspective different that one would expect to find on the sides. May be it is because 1000R is still too show a wrap to make that obvious. May be also pictures does not show it as if looking that screen in person.

A 49" 1000R gets only about 120 degrees of field of view, but a triple if set at 60 degree angle would get 180. So if I want to see what is happening on the side, I need triple. Or wait for 600R screen. Not sure any one would make such thing, won't be useful for anything other than gaming

Man, I would hate to have to mod my rig so soon, that was a lot of work to design and build with those profiles.

 

[KFMaster]

Dai, with regards to the second race, I didn't stall, technically. I just found myself furiously revving but then I realized I did not engage the first gear once done, my start was lightning fast

You surely went lightning after getting it going! After I went around you, in the back of my head I have an image of me going much faster than you, thus ok to ease back over, but oops, not really! When I was look at the reply, it still make no sense how you end up going faster than me

 

[KFMaster]

For Dai:
This is from an nvidia demo. They planned something like "native triplescreen support" from inside the nvidia control panel. Which would've been absolutely awesome, but sadly never came to existence..

The important bit starts at 6:50:

Some pictures from that + my own drawing:

Non-corrected but angled monitors:
View attachment 682967


Corrected projection:
View attachment 682968

Taking this and creating some really not-accurate drawing:
View attachment 682985
View attachment 682986
Looking at the 2 dots on the very left of the "projection plane" (flat line vs curved line), you can see that taking the existing dots from the flat plane and simply bending the plane would result in the dots being way too far away from each other.
They are a lot closer to each other on the curved plane.

If you now look at the ACC pictures I've uploaded further up, you can see that the projection correction at 1.0 does exactly that. It squeezes the vision towards the edges closer together.

Sadly, there's no game yet that can switch between projection settings.
I hope UE5 might push for something like it so others can follow...
Would be awesome to type in your curvature and get a "correct" projection from the get go.




It gets quite fancy towards the end regarding VR and other screens:
View attachment 682972


View attachment 682971

Great illustrations Rasmus!

These all makes sense! I guess that for a 49" 1000R screen, that difference is just too little to make any impact visually. And even with correction, it won't provide the additional information available on a triple setup for seeing who is next to you. And the situation is even worse for my 34" 1500R screen

 

[KFMaster]

Hehe I had a course at university about this. Called "Darstellende Geometrie", where we had to project simple objects into different "planes". Hurts my brain looking at it but once practices it's simply "drawing a line from the "plane line" to the object-edge" and then "measuring the distance from that point to the previous plane and drawing a point with the same distance behind the next plane".
These sentences sound absolutely awful haha. Here's a picture
This would pretty easily also work with a curved plane. Just do exactly the same. Drawing a line, measuring distance, "projecting" it.
I don't really get why it's not implemented anywhere yet but I have no idea about how this projection is done in rendering engines...
View attachment 682990


Hehe yep, the end result isn't that complex to set up if you get the information how to do it.
I'd say it would be pretty straight forward to make it a circular bend too, with a specific fov matching a specific curvature radius.
The radius isn't even needed, if the bend is part of a circle and not some parabolic thingy.

I think most if not all rendering engines uses ray tracing, so this stuff is actually implemented "automatically". Otherwise, the triple setup wont look right at all like you have shown earlier.

 

[Kek700]

Shame we cannot implement it, would be so beneficial to my triples.