AC Round 12 of 23 Formula Agile@Hungaroring1988 Thu, 20th July 2023

[Kek700]

Nice to read an opposite point of view.

 

[Medilloni]

Nice to read an opposite point of view.

View attachment 682722

Indeed it is

I've done a bit of karting this last year (damn painful I may add!) and I have a sneaky suspicion it's made me slower on the sim - didn't realise how much we compensate for sim racing over irl, then get on the sim and it feels 'awkward'

The screen thing - I can't use VR (wish I could), have tried triples and, whilst the immersion at first 'feels' better, it made no difference to lap time, and really I'm of the opinion that 95% of what we see is in front of us is 'where it's at'.

...only an opinion; having watched successful sim racers irl with a single screen, I'm really not sure if there is an 'answer', but like fishing, golf etc, if the good kit makes you feel good about what you're doing, then what the Hell, enjoy

(I have a something-inch curved jobby btw)

 

[Kek700]

So true John, if we all could drive a kart around a kart track in place of racing at a sim track, I am not so sure the status quo would be the same.
Although I have a sneaking suspicion there would be a few surprises.
It is always the same in life, move the man, you move his opinion.
Everything Bob said, I don't have same view, that's not a Pun. .

 

[stigs2cousin]

The screen thing - I can't use VR (wish I could), have tried triples and, whilst the immersion at first 'feels' better, it made no difference to lap time, and really I'm of the opinion that 95% of what we see is in front of us is 'where it's at'.

Coming from real world driving I can´t corroborate that.
With triples and (very) ultrawide/curved screens there is the clear advantage that you can see "all of the corner" i.e. brake marker, end of braking/ turn in, apex and track out at the same time.
(before turning in of course). That let´s you plan your line better and with practice hit it better
(Slovakia Ring infield )

Only triples give you the peripheral vision that enables you to "feel" the cars movement aka "seat of the pants driving".
So there are real world advanteges to a very large FOV.

I have not tried VR even though a lot of people are salivating about it, but nausea, cost and the need of constant software maintenance repell me.

...only an opinion; having watched successful sim racers irl with a single screen, I'm really not sure if there is an 'answer', but like fishing, golf etc, if the good kit makes you feel good about what you're doing, then what the Hell, enjoy

You´ll always find a very select group of people that are "out of this world"
I´ll cosign your last conclusion (even though I often take things way too seriously myself),
in the end it´s a hobby where absolutely nothing is at stake except for completely inconsequential internet points.

 

[Medilloni]

Only triples give you the peripheral vision that enables you to "feel" the cars movement aka "seat of the pants driving".
So there are real world advanteges to a very large FOV.

I'll backpedal a bit Carsten I should probably have said a good single (curved) screen is 'enough' for most of the time, but then I'd be saying the bleedin' obvious

Totally agree with your comment, my ultrawide (34 inch) is enough to see apexes and approach at most tracks though must admit there's a couple that are difficult - tight left over crest at Kyalami is one I remember. Though I get the same lap time there with triples and my single screen.

If I had the room and finances I'd definitely go for triples as 'nice to have' for that extra bit of vision/immersion - especially in traffic

 

[Kek700]

Yes I agree Carsten, I was a racing cyclist for 10 years, my point.,..
Mother nature brought a lot advantages seen and hidden to the table, and disadvantages come to think if it.
Unlike sim racing, it was all on the table to be seen.
No skill, just physical attributes given and or situations that allowed you to exploit them.
There are a lot of factors that make someone great. None of this you are in control of.
Yes, still peeves me when I cannot extract that couple of extra digital mph., but I realise it is just mother nature taking it's course, nothing personal and I just try my best, that is all I can do.

 

[RasmusP]

I'll backpedal a bit Carsten I should probably have said a good single (curved) screen is 'enough' for most of the time, but then I'd be saying the bleedin' obvious

Totally agree with your comment, my ultrawide (34 inch) is enough to see apexes and approach at most tracks though must admit there's a couple that are difficult - tight left over crest at Kyalami is one I remember. Though I get the same lap time there with triples and my single screen.

If I had the room and finances I'd definitely go for triples as 'nice to have' for that extra bit of vision/immersion - especially in traffic

I'd say that a 24" 16:9 1080p Monitor with 75 Hz would be enough to put in alien times.
60 Hz don't cut it though!

However seeing more to the sides will, in my opinion and experience, accelerate your practice. You won't have to do 200 laps at Silverstone to get close to the apex kerb for the left hairpin that goes onto the long straight which ends into Brooklands/Luffield.
And it will help a lot when going side by side. Helicorsa etc help a ton. But without a radar, triples would be absolutely phenomenal for battles.

 

[RasmusP]

About triples:
@Bob Luneski are you sure your triples were set up correctly?
A few pictures for comparison:

Incorrect triples:

Correct triples:

49" ultrawide:

As we can see, incorrect triples will basically look like a 49" ultrawide but with a sharp bend in the image and massive distortion regarding depth.

Correctly set up triples will almost simulate real 3D depth perception, since the perspective correction will make cars next to you not only move from "left to right", but from "close to your head" to "in front of your eyes".

I'll post some drawings about curved fov projection etc. later today. I have some things stored somewhere on my pc about it.

 

[HF2000]

For anyone who doesn't have VR of triple screens, this is a relatively cheap solution to look left and right. Works well in Flight Simulation. It's a bit awkward to turn your head but keep looking at the screen in front of you, I guess.

IR Head Tracking - The Best TrackIR IR Tracker Alternative

Discover the ultimate head tracking solutions for PC gaming. Explore IR trackers and TrackIR alternatives for enhanced immersion and control.

delanengineering.com

 

[stigs2cousin]

About triples:
@Bob Luneski are you sure your triples were set up correctly?

I'll post some drawings about curved fov projection etc. later today. I have some things stored somewhere on my pc about it.

Dammit, we (OK,ok, I ) triggered another nerdout.

Rasmus, that would be swell

 

[Kek700]

Rasmus is correct, Sunday I had two occurrences, one with Fulvio and Dia on both occasions we bumped side by side, the only reason it was doable was that I could look left and see the side if their cars. and compensate. Out the front screen just the track.

 

[stigs2cousin]

So Rasmus, if you are THAT talented or do put in the work you can achieve the same laptimes on single screen.

For earthlings triples make live easier, they make racing a lot safer for all of us.

 

[KFMaster]

About triples:
@Bob Luneski are you sure your triples were set up correctly?
A few pictures for comparison:

Incorrect triples:
View attachment 682806

Correct triples:
View attachment 682807

49" ultrawide:
View attachment 682808

As we can see, incorrect triples will basically look like a 49" ultrawide but with a sharp bend in the image and massive distortion regarding depth.

Correctly set up triples will almost simulate real 3D depth perception, since the perspective correction will make cars next to you not only move from "left to right", but from "close to your head" to "in front of your eyes".

I'll post some drawings about curved fov projection etc. later today. I have some things stored somewhere on my pc about it.

Hi Rasmus, could you elaborate a bit on what is it about the 49" ultrawide that gives the "massive distortion regarding depth"?

My take is that the wrong triple setup is wrong because the the sim is setup for a flat wide screen so it looks messed up with the sides screens being setup in an angle. And the ultrawide is just mild case of it.

Would be interesting to see a screen shot of the ultrawide running with a sim that has the proper correction, i.e., image rendered by the sim to account for the right R and width of the screen.

 

[Kek700]

So Rasmus, if you are THAT talented or do put in the work you can achieve the same laptimes on single screen.

For earthlings triples make live easier, they make racing a lot safer for all of us.

if you took my side monitors away and left me with a single 144hz 24" monitor, i would be no slower or unfortunately faster.

But i would enjoy bashing into people and saying, "what do you expect I have a single monitor".

 

[KFMaster]

Rasmus is correct, Sunday I had two occurrences, one with Fulvio and Dia on both occasions we bumped side by side, the only reason it was doable was that I could look left and see the side if their cars. and compensate. Out the front screen just the track.

This is true. With my 34 wide, I don't see anything on the side. Now I also have a good excuse for my tunnel vision

 

[eN1xes]

if you took my side monitors away and left me with a single 144hz 24" monitor, i would be no slower or unfortunately faster.

But i would enjoy bashing into people and saying, "what do you expect I have a single monitor".

the contact with me feels like you was with a single monitor no problem anyway

 

[KFMaster]

For earthlings triples make live easier, they make racing a lot safer for all of us.

May be this is the reason I should relook at triple setup again.

But 1024p resolution seems low side.

Would be nice two have three 1440p curved 24" for triple. I don't see any such monitors though. The hard angles between three flat screens just kind bugs me.

 

[Bob Luneski]

With no disrespect intended, I'm quite capable of setting up triple monitors correctly. Yes, I suck and I will never be able to compete with your young eyes and reflexes. While I have the technical background to discuss this in detail ad nauseum(tried to delete it before it was quoted), I'm here to make friends, race, and relax. I'll not be commenting further on this or much of anything else.

Sincerely yours
"Backmarker" Bob

 

[gearwhine]

Did i just hear a pin drop!

 

[HF2000]

First I'd like to thank every single one of for all the help that people have given me getting my rig out of mothballs, running, and figuring out racing in 2 sims in which I've not competed. The setup assistance for a sim and car I don't know is particularly appreciated.

I was hoping that people would respect that it was my opinion only as seen through my eyes; and that I was not going to engage in a spec/gear war where everyone try's to show how much more they know than everyone else about technical issue X. I am glad you like your triples. With no disrespect intended, I'm quite capable of setting up triple monitors correctly(that's the one where you treated to me like an idiot)

I guess I wasn't clear enough that I'm not going to engage in spec/gear wars. So I won't go into how I'm 60, have been been in RD since 2008, have been sim-racing even longer; or that I am a Senior Engineering Manager at a large multi national electronics company specializing in Test and Measurement Equipment...or.....enough is freaking enough. I hope the attached will generate some technical credibility with the group despite the fact I suck and will never be able to compete with young eyes and reflexes.

Sincerely yours

"Backmarker" Bob
View attachment 682919

Hi Bob,

I'm sorry you took it that way. I really think you misjudged the answers to your question. Let me assure you that it was absolutely not the intention of the guys involved to treat you disrespectfully. I hope you trust me on that since I know these guys.
And as a moderator of these threads I would have take action immediately if I noticed something that isn't supposed to be in it.

It's just the opposite. They are very helpful to everyone and maybe their eagerness to do so came as a surprise to you. I am very proud to have gathered such a friendly, helpful and respectful community within our club races.

And it's also true that these types of topics often lead to a discussion like in this thread that many of us benefit from learning from guys who know more about it. We like to hear eachother opinion on those matters even if they drift off topic.

Ernie has a lot of life experience in many ways and Rasmus is our community guru for all kinds of IT related things, especially CPU and GPU things. I often call them my heroes because they play an important role in that capacity.

And with the same respect for you, I let you decide if you want to keep your post the way it is now.

I really hope you will have a lot of great races with us and many more posts in our threads.

DISCLAIMER: English isn't my native language. If you find my reply somewhat offending then it's because my incompetence.