Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[jamescarruthers]

GD allready stated that the picture was from a gadget. there is no SC3 planned at the moment. It would have been nice if the poster that started this fire also was forthcomming with the fact that he made a totaly wrong conclusion. The emotions in this tread are getting out of hand I think.

It clearly looks like a tiny 3D printed SC2...

All of the emotions around recent Simucube stuff is based on wrong conclusions... in fact, pretty much everything on the GD forum is that. e.g. people crying about a product improvement (Pro with one power supply) then people getting suspicious and upset about the rating of the new power supply... I trust GDs engineers than the people who have little electrical knowledge and start shouting slander... as if on full power the Pro can't snap your wrists off... yeah maybe you don't need that much power?!

 

[Kiryu]

It would have been nice if the poster that started this fire also was forthcomming with the fact that he made a totaly wrong conclusion. The emotions in this tread are getting out of hand I think.

Ted had already edited his post to make this clear yesterday

 

[DrRob]

@TedBrosby- Hmm, I was under the impression that GD still supports SC1 and even tries to accommodate newer SC2 filters to the SC1 build? I could be wrong here.
That said I thought that the same would be true IF a successor would come on the market from GD and IF there would be technical similarities.

Anyway, just want to make the point that GD seems to care about their customers - at least in my opinion.
They are a niche company in a niche market after all. They cannot afford to ruin their reputation in such a market I would think.
Comparing GD with Logitech seems a bit unfair, but fair play to them that they support their products this long.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It clearly looks like a tiny 3D printed SC2...

All of the emotions around recent Simucube stuff is based on wrong conclusions... in fact, pretty much everything on the GD forum is that. e.g. people crying about a product improvement (Pro with one power supply) then people getting suspicious and upset about the rating of the new power supply... I trust GDs engineers than the people who have little electrical knowledge and start shouting slander... as if on full power the Pro can't snap your wrists off... yeah maybe you don't need that much power?!

20Nm can snap your wrists just as well, but I've paid for 25Nm version and not sure it performs based on advertised spec after PSU change and artificial cutoff of amperage in FW for R1 owners. I didn't get any response from GD on how to verify drawn amperage or Nm as it was possible in Granity software before, but it does look like recently I need to run SC2 even at a higher gain in AC than what I used with my 20Nm Mige to get the same level of torque. I know, it's not a proof, but it does make you wonder.
And there is another anecdotal evidence.

I have DD1 and SC2 Pro and I wouldn’t say fanatec is crap.
But not about that
Even though Pro is 25nm at max settings it seems weaker than DD1?

 

[mtakala]

That 3D print picture is a prototype of a keychain/ring that we might have made (from better material) as additional goodies. I think it was not a good idea to tease about that and I was not involved in it.

 

[mtakala]

With SC2 R2 we already on SC 2.5 as besides PSU they've changed quite a lot of things internally as well as completely redesigned backplate, not to the better if you ask me.

We went from a 2-PCB design that is complex and has failure points and is time consuming to put together, to a 1-PCB design that is easy to manufacture and that eliminates failure points (mechanical connectors between the PCBs). All other components stayed the same. This also makes the product easier to service. Why is that not better?

 

[mtakala]

And if GD releases a V2 of their module which isn't backwards compatible,

It will be backwards compatible and support will be added to Simucube 1 as well.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

We went from a 2-PCB design that is complex and has failure points and is time consuming to put together, to a 1-PCB design that is easy to manufacture and that eliminates failure points (mechanical connectors between the PCBs). All other components stayed the same. This also makes the product easier to service. Why is that not better?

I was referring to backplate design, with switch conveniently located within easy reach in the corner replaced by toggle button moved to the center with access obstructed by antenna on one side and cables on another. That will make it close to impossible to turn unit on/off without getting out of the racing seat. I haven't seen internals to comment, obviously.

 

[JohnBeardmore]

I don't yet have dd wheel (or any wheel as I am putting my rig together) but have been researching and reading lots and I think GD are very supportive and willing to help. They also have a solid industrial background. I do think alot of the criticism towards them is unfair.

When it comes to buying my wheel it will be GD. My only decision is build my own simucube 1 or go ready built 2.

 

[Deleted member 1234936]

Here we go again with the miss information and assumptions.

On a side note, to the people with pre simucube hardware, motors etc, what makes them all of a sudden become "Obsolete"? were they not working correctly before? Did the games stop working with them?

J

 

[TedBrosby-]

Here we go again with the miss information and assumptions.

On a side note, to the people with pre simucube hardware, motors etc, what makes them all of a sudden become "Obsolete"? were they not working correctly before? Did the games stop working with them?

J

This entire conversation got drifted far away from the original issue(s):
Granite Devices have admit that there's no SC3 and they made a joke on their Facebook page (which was not a good joke IMO or it wasn't transmitted effectively that it was a joke).

And you more or less defeated your own argument with your own question. I'll explain it to you:
If the older drives are still good enough, according to you, then why build new ones?
The SC2 is powerful enough to handle the FFB of any sim racing game that is out or will come out for 3-5 years. There's no "need" for them to build an SC3 unless Windows suddenly updates its ancient FFB library and sim developers start using it. GD should focus on building filters for the SC2 and resolving issues it has.

And it sounds like that's exactly what they're doing according to @mtakala.

Mika, thanks for answering our concerns... But I seriously feel like these missteps in communication are what cause certain members of the community to get riled up.

Thanks for kind of giving us a "teaser" that a V2 module is coming. I'm working on building button plates with high quality NKK/knitter switches and I'm looking forward to having an analog axis.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Thanks for kind of giving us a "teaser" that a V2 module is coming. I'm working on building button plates with high quality NKK/knitter switches and I'm looking forward to having an analog axis.

GD at the moment do not distribute wireless modules to DIY parties, only to few certified builders.

 

[TedBrosby-]

GD at the moment do not distribute wireless modules to DIY parties, only to few certified builders.

Actually it's a weird sort of loophole. They don't mind if we buy them, but they don't want to spend resources providing support. So they sell the modules directly to vendors, even vendors who don't make wheels, and if you buy them, your only source for support is the vendor themselves.

That being said, the default configuration is actually very usable. It provides 5 encoders, 16 push buttons and the two shifters. And you can technically use the 5 encoder +/- increments as buttons. The only reason you would need their configuration software is if you wanted to use more than 5 encoders or if you wanted to do things more complicated than that.
I bought two of them off Simtag myself.

 

[Deleted member 1234936]

@tedbrosby,

No I didn't, I posted questions for which I am still waiting for answers to.

People chip in.

J

 

[AccAkut]

Actually it's a weird sort of loophole. They don't mind if we buy them, but they don't want to spend resources providing support. So they sell the modules directly to vendors, even vendors who don't make wheels, and if you buy them, your only source for support is the vendor themselves.

exactly, everyone can buy these modules if you look hard enough, but only certified builders get access to the software to rewrite the firmware to their needs (mostly just changing the name the rim appears as I guess.

As a DIY guy you're down to use whats on it from factory, and you get no support to get it going apart from pdf documentation and some spread out forum posts.

 

[TedBrosby-]

exactly, everyone can buy these modules if you look hard enough, but only certified builders get access to the software to rewrite the firmware to their needs (mostly just changing the name the rim appears as I guess.

As a DIY guy you're down to use whats on it from factory, and you get no support to get it going apart from pdf documentation and some spread out forum posts.

I’ve heard you can tell vendors what your desired configuration is and they will program it for you. I’ve considered doing this to reduce it to 4 encoders and having 18 buttons free so that a funky switch will still leave you with 7 buttons on one side, 6 in the other and the funky switch can take a spot of the missing button. And you can have three encoders left over for TCS, ABS and brake bias.
The funky switch can serve as increment decrement with black box control.
Only reason I haven’t requested it is because buttons work fine in encoder spots. It’s when you want MORE encoders that the programming becomes necessary (some encoders need a delay function to avoid double detents being detected).
But I’m about an inch away from taking a break from making SC2 wireless wheels because I want to use SimHub which means I’ll have a USB cable anyway, so might as well use a micro hub and a Bodnar controller board.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Actually it's a weird sort of loophole. They don't mind if we buy them, but they don't want to spend resources providing support. So they sell the modules directly to vendors, even vendors who don't make wheels, and if you buy them, your only source for support is the vendor themselves.

That being said, the default configuration is actually very usable. It provides 5 encoders, 16 push buttons and the two shifters. And you can technically use the 5 encoder +/- increments as buttons. The only reason you would need their configuration software is if you wanted to use more than 5 encoders or if you wanted to do things more complicated than that.
I bought two of them off Simtag myself.

You must get lucky then, I guess, as I remember Dennis having hard time sourcing one.

Simucube wireless wheel support

My previous post below. Or even better… point me to a reseller that does sell the board with external antenna connector?

community.granitedevices.com

And Beano explained exactly what you are saying

Hi, Granite Devices has made it very clear that they will not be selling these modules to diy teams, due to support requirements, other overheads, etc…

So they left the option to their resellers to decide if the resellers will sell to diy crowd, but ultimately, also support these devices. Most resellers are very small operations, often 1 or 2 persons strong only, so I can fully sympathise with them for selling preconfigured ready wheels only.

 

[TedBrosby-]

You must get lucky then, I guess, as I remember Dennis having hard time sourcing one.

Simucube wireless wheel support

My previous post below. Or even better… point me to a reseller that does sell the board with external antenna connector?

community.granitedevices.com

And Beano explained exactly what you are saying

https://simtag.shop/gb/accueil/397-simucube-wheel-ble-module.html
If you ever wanna break out your soldering iron

 

[Clover11]

I'm a little confused on if the R2 SC2 is actually an upgrade. Sounds like a more simple design and one power supply would be a good thing but I guess not everyone agrees. I am planning on wireless for the wheel, seems like R2 would be better for that but others saying that the SRB units with two power supplies have the external antenna.

What would you get if you were buying now? The R2 with one PSU or the older version from SRB with two. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

They all have external antenna, except of very first few batches of R1.