PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Damage Inc]

I own or have owned and tried these sims....

GTR
GTL
GTR2+P&G
RACE07/GTR EVO/RACEON+
rf1+rf2
Netkar+FVA+Asseto Corsa
Iracing many times
GSC 2011/12/13

I also own many simcade games like Dirt2/3 etc, however, only the PC sims work best with my wheel and also give a high level of FFB and physics detail, even though some of them have some well known issues.

Consider 2 Deer Hunting games....both claim to be simulating the experience of deer/game hunting.

Game 1 is DX11 with hi-rez textures, epic 3D gun models, outstanding class leading weather effects, but the shooting part feels like it's got auto aim stuck on.

Game 2 is DX9 and has mid level quality GFX and SFX, gun models don't look anywhere as good as game 1, but the treatment of the shooting and the optics are very realistic in that proper aiming/technique must be used.

To me, Game 2 is the sim as it favours simulating the core aspect of the game, ie, the act of shooting, it's the same with Netkar vs Pcars, whereby netkars mix of physics/FFB and tyre model are the main focus and the game deserves it's status as a simulator as it favours the act of driving.

This is fair enough, I could do a similar thing and go back in time a bit more than that, so why is your opinion more valid than mine based on sim experience?

Basically all you have is Sim experience, no real experience? I rode motorbikes (like a loon in my early/mid twenties), only went up to 600cc (otherwise I doubt I'd be alive!) but those bikes had 400hp or so per tonne. Bikes that could do 0-60 in around 3.5 seconds and top speeds close to 170 mph (not bad for 6 and half grand!). Like I say I rode fast for a good many years (not proud of it, almost died at least twice and escaped serious injury many times including a 70 mph crash). So I have years of experience of moving on the roads VERY VERY fast indeed. No SIM conveys what I have felt riding or driving, none at all, zip, nadda. They can't do it. So sim experience is basically valueless in defining how "real" or not something is, how "sim" or not something is.

And your hunting game analogy is not quite right, If Game 1 is pCARS then it too requires proper techniques. Unless you mean optional driver aids, then by that reasoning AC is game 1 as well?

pCARS focus is with the Tyre model at the moment (shed loads of focused testing going on). Why can you not understand that a game can look and sound good and also have good physics? It seems a concept alien to you...I find that very perplexing. Just as much as those who think that graphics work somehow detracts and delays physics work...when it's done by completely different people....again a concept that is alien to many pCARS detractors.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

pCARS is not a million miles away from AC and most certainly by every non biased definition of the word a Simulation.

I'm biased towards steering precision, FFB delivery and believable physics, and pcars needs work to get to a level that I and others deem sim worthy...of course, no-one has to agree with me.

 

[traind]

Well I've tested quite a bit today, including a back to back test of the BMW 1M at monza/Milan of pCARS and AC. Had to drive both cars near identically, same brake points, lost the rear a few times at the same points of the track in both games, AC just feels ever so slightly more polished and refined than pCARS which is to be expected. pCARS is not a million miles away from AC and most certainly by every non biased definition of the word a Simulation.

I also tested the Mustang Cobra at Anhalt/Oscherleben and it was a blast, bloody excellent for such a new addition. Same with the Audi R8 LMS ultra, brilliant.

I decided to drive the BMW 1M back to back in pCars and AC as you did although I drove Anhalt and Magione respectively. Not a fair fight due to alpha vs. beta but what the hell.

It seems like the 1m in pCars has had some work done on it since it was introduced as it feels better than before to me. I particularly like the feel of the tires at the point of loss of grip in the pCars 1M-- oversteer is very nicely signaled and feels very controllable (& fun!) in this car. It may actually come on a little slow in pCars vs. real life as the last 1M owner I spoke to at the track said he felt power-on oversteer could be a handful with the torque curve. That's one opinion only--I have not driven a real 1M although I do own an E46 M3 which likely isn't worlds apart in feel.

Vs the AC 1M? For my taste, I would say that pCars is "on the lead lap" with their current handling feel but there is still a gap between them and the sims that are "on the podium" such as AC. I do think pCars has been closing the gap over the last 6 months and it will be interesting to see how close they get. A few of the AC advantages at this point IMO: AC's 1M feels more alive in the suspension (particularly felt when cornering hard) and more alert on turn in.

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Both games are beta, alpha doesn't mean anything anymore these days. Both are missing important features, cars, proper AI...actually AC doesn't even have damage or MP, or any kind of career right now, if you were to release both games today pCARS would be the more complete one.

Sick of that "pre-alpha soyoucanttouchme" BS status of this title.

 

[Mark Quigley]

Both games are beta, alpha doesn't mean anything anymore these days. Both are missing important features, cars, proper AI...actually AC doesn't even have damage or MP, or any kind of career right now, if you were to release both games today pCARS would be the more complete one.

Sick of that "pre-alpha soyoucanttouchme" BS status of this title.

aye, just folks coming to terms with this "early access" thingy.

Paying for a product but you can't complain too much coz it aint finished, must be doing some folks heads in

 

[traind]

Alpha and beta actually mean something in software development, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. pCars tire model is not complete-- one of the key features of a sim thus it is very hard to call it beta (which means feature complete). AC's tire model seems complete, although I agree the other features aren't released so I guess you could call it alpha too with a beta tire model.

 

[DrJustice]

Both games are beta, alpha doesn't mean anything anymore these days....

Yes it does. You may not like it and want to poke fun at it, but for the professionals it has meaning indeed. SMS is sticking to a development cycle where there's a clear transition to alpha (possibly sometime next month, FYI), with beta to follow later this year. Same thing with e.g. David Braben's Elite Dangerous, where you can also pareticipate in the clearly defines phases.

Methinks "Early Access" has screwed with the punters' heads. And so have some games which seems to stay in "beta" for several years while they're being developed.

It's not up to random uppity interent guys to decide what the terms of development phases mean, or what the development cycle of a given company looks like.

Sick of that "pre-alpha soyoucanttouchme" BS status of this title.

Maybe it's one of those damned internet viruses again: "I can claim anything I like as fact, even though I haven't got a clue". Unfortunately there seems to be no treatment

 

[Andy_J]

Latest Build testing.

This ^^^^^^

 

[Chris Partridge]

I can't wait to try the R8 Ultra LMS and 2014 LMP1.

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Alpha and beta actually mean something in software development, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. pCars tire model is not complete-- one of the key features of a sim thus it is very hard to call it beta (which means feature complete). AC's tire model seems complete, although I agree the other features aren't released so I guess you could call it alpha too with a beta tire model.

Alpha with a beta tyre model! Oh god, thanks for the laugh

You're confirming to me that alpha/beta doesn't mean a damn thing. Assetto Corsa is a beta game, and it is missing (lots of) features. By the way, AC changed it's tyre model just a few weeks ago, so you choose a really bad argument.

Also the fact that SMS couldn't figure out a proper tyre model in the last two years doesn't make the game jump from Alpha to Beta like that. Not that i would like for it to be called Beta, because it is not. But you can't call PCARS pre-alpha and AC beta.

inb4 WMD dislike train

 

[DrJustice]

Alpha with a beta tyre model! Oh god, thanks for the laugh

You're confirming to me that alpha/beta doesn't mean a damn thing...

Nonsense. Each asset have their own development status, all specified on WMD - the cars are in various stages of development. The software is pre alpha. It really isn't up to you to define this. Maybe you'll be happier when it moves to alpha - it's happening soon.

inb4 WMD dislike train

Poisoning the well, I see.

Edit: Sorry for the OT. It's a response to trolling/bullshitting. Such things need to be opposed, and regrettably there's no other way than to post. I'd also like to see actual testing reports in this thread.

 

[traind]

This ^^^^^^

I tried

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Nonsense. Each asset have their own development status, all specified on WMD - the cars are in various stages of development. The software is pre alpha.

:facepalm:

Assetto Corsa also has assets in various stages of development(some don't even exist yet), why is that game a beta and pcars pre-alpha ? That's because pre-alpha/alpha/beta doesn't mean much these days. Which is my original point.

Guys, always remember to turn on the brain before typing, i'm losing my time here for you, at least do that please.

(thanks for the dislike traind, nothing left to say to defend your silly argument ?)
WMD dislike train has arrived(DrJustice)

 

[DrJustice]

Well, Sesto, that's how it is. Like it or not. No amount of arrogance (ridicule beyond your station), intimidation (poisoning the well, outing people (for what you do yourself to boot)) or outright trolling (inflammatory postings) is going to change reality.

Edit: I'll still offer you this explanation:

...pre-alpha/alpha/beta doesn't mean much these days....

The only thing that has changed "these days" is that the public are getting "early access", or even access right into the thick of development as is the case with pCARS. Software development and processes are still there like it has always been. The problem as I see it is two-fold:
1 - people don't understand software development, and entitlement, arm-chair software engineering "expertise" or simply net-rage lead to unfounded or unjust claims
2 - some companies sell early access, possibly labeling their software as being later in the process than it is for marketability purposes, which may confuse matters and lead to 1

 

[traind]

:facepalm:

Assetto Corsa also has assets in various stages of development(some don't even exist yet), why is that game a beta and pcars pre-alpha ? That's because pre-alpha/alpha/beta doesn't mean much these days. Which is my original point.

Guys, always remember to turn on the brain before typing, i'm losing my time here for you, at least do that please.
(thanks for the dislike traind, nothing left to say to defend your silly argument ?)
WMD dislike train has arrived(DrJustice)

Sesto, I hope you're a non-native english speaker because otherwise I fear for your ability to read.

You are attacking my post and pcars status as pre-beta... for what? In my post I clearly said I prefer AC's handling right now and that pcars has a gap to close to reach the best sims in the area of handling feel. Still, you attack pcars like a pavlovian response, even when someone is saying pcars isn't the best at something?

You are the one making no sense and offering no argument. AC, which I think is bloody fantastic, is about to go to what they call version 1.0--scheduled for end of April if they can hold to their plan. No it will not have every feature at 1.0 (like pitstops) but most will be in the sim. Certainly anyone can see that their tire model (which is arguably the best available in any sim) is beta or, more likely, completely done with just tweaking happening for certain cars. Why can't you see that? Because you are acting like an argumentative virtual bully rather than driving the different sims and posting on their quality.

Then you get 6 disagree marks in two posts and you attack me like a scolded child. But I'll be sure to "turn my brain on" next time I write something...

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

Sesto, I hope you're a non-native english speaker because otherwise I fear for your ability to read.


Certainly anyone can see that their tire model (which is arguably the best available in any sim) is beta or, more likely, completely done with just tweaking happening for certain cars.
Then you get 6 disagree marks in two posts and you attack me like a scolded child. But I'll be sure to "turn my brain on" next time I write something...

Their tyre model just changed to a completely different one a few weeks ago, it's just that both of them were infinitely better than pCARSs. Again, I'm not saying that pcars should be called a beta and AC an alpha, my point (uuh again) is that there's alot of confusion around about this, as i see posts that say "Well AC is almost finished, pCARS is JUST a pre-alpha" when both games are around the same % of completion.

*2 disagrees from you, 2 from DrJustice, yeah that really proves your point.

2 - some companies sell early access, possibly labeling their software as being later in the process than it is for marketability purposes, which may confuse matters and lead

What i've seen regarding pCARS is the exact contrary, WMD members/admins shutting up whoever tried to question anything about the game, because "pre-alpha". Which was a good excuse 2 years ago, but it's time for a reality check now.

 

[traind]

Sesto--why would a game that is scheduled to be "v1.0" next month and one that is scheduled for release in September/October timeframe be at the same point in development?

I do agree with you that there is confusion about software development status (alpha, beta etc). I would also hypothesize from the available data that you are one of the confused--in this area at least.

My personal belief is that the initial state of pcars graphics 2 years ago made many people think they were close to baked with everything in the title and just needed to add content. The reality was very different. Their graphics engine was advanced from the beginning but they were, for all intents and purposes, creating an entirely new physics and tire model. Not fully but almost. That has taken a long time and they are still working on it although it has progressed significantly.

My opinion, based on testing the sim regularly, is that the pCars track selection, car selection, graphics, sound, and race feature set (damage,weather, 24 hour cycle) are all going to be "on the podium" in the world of sim racing when pCars releases. These podium finishes make pCars a compelling title in themselves but the list is missing some critical components. The jury is out on AI quality, multiplayer support and most importantly, handling feel.

Based on my experience with the latest build, the handling feel is going to be entertaining and at the very least serviceable for racing & lapping. I am a pCars supporter but I really am not sure if they will get the handling feel on the podium or not. It is certainly possible but the very best of the competition, including the aforementioned AC, are still in the lead and driving fast cars.

Sorry for so many racing analogies

 

[Fabrizio Corona]

I kind of doubt AC will release v1.0 in April, and even if they did release it, it doesn't mean that it will be ready, many features are still missing. So they will basically release a really polished beta game and add content to it. pCARS instead will wait and release the full game (maybe an open beta?), but basically both games are in the same development stage.

What i hope for pCARS is that they get the FFB feel right, that's what put me off the most in that game, physics are decent, but if i don't feel what the car is doing it takes the joy out of it for me. I had to tweak the ini's and in-game settings to get a decent feel every week, and just for some cars.

 

[traind]

I kind of doubt AC will release v1.0 in April, and even if they did release it, it doesn't mean that it will be ready, many features are still missing. So they will basically release a really polished beta game and add content to it. pCARS instead will wait and release the full game (maybe an open beta?), but basically both games are in the same development stage.

What i hope for pCARS is that they get the FFB feel right, that's what put me off the most in that game, physics are decent, but if i don't feel what the car is doing it takes the joy out of it for me. I had to tweak the ini's and in-game settings to get a decent feel every week, and just for some cars.

I think the FFB is coming along but I agree it can be really off for some cars. Hopefully that will all sort itself out. I do think a title like GSC has superior force feedback but pCars is making good progress.

I like the tire model work in pCars at the point of losing grip-- it feels very good to me. The deficit for my taste appears to be somewhere in the physics perhaps (I think-- it is hard to tell what drives things--no pun intended). The suspension doesn't feel as distinct or lively to me as the best of other titles and turn in on many cars still seems a bit fuzzy for me. I guess those things could be related to ffb and tire model as well.

There are so many features very well executed in pCars that a decent handling feel will still make it a compelling choice for me. Hopefully it climbs higher than average and it does have the potential to. SMS and WMD are really working hard in that area so I am not sure they could be doing much more to make it feel great. But tire model, physics and FFB seem to be half science & half art so there is no guarantee that effort will equal a place on the handling podium.

 

[ThatAntisocialKid]

:facepalm:

Assetto Corsa also has assets in various stages of development(some don't even exist yet), why is that game a beta and pcars pre-alpha ? That's because pre-alpha/alpha/beta doesn't mean much these days. Which is my original point.

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. No matter how you would like to spin it, pCARS is pre-alpha. I'll try to lay this out as simply as I can for you.

- Pre-alpha means the game's features (career mode, mp, physics, cars, etc.) are still being added in.
- Alpha means all the features are in the game in one form or another (some will be further along in development than others)
- Beta means all that remains is bug fixing and then the game is ready to go gold (to ship).

Now, looking at that list, where does pCARS fit into? As already said though, pCARS is scheduled to hit alpha soon anyway.

As for why AC is in beta, I suppose it's because Kunos decided to cut down on the feature list for the initial 1.0 release. So basically, all the features that are in the game right now are the ones meant to be in there for the 1.0 release, meaning it's not "missing" any features and is no longer (at least) pre-alpha. As for why it's not alpha, well that just comes down to the fact that if the game is indeed scheduled to be at the 1.0 release next month, it is unlikely that it would be anything other than beta, or at the very least, very late alpha (due to time remaining to get to the 1.0 stage).

Guys, always remember to turn on the brain before typing, i'm losing my time here for you, at least do that please.
(thanks for the dislike traind, nothing left to say to defend your silly argument ?)
WMD dislike train has arrived(DrJustice)

If you're going to insult people, you should at least make sure what you're saying is accurate (then maybe you wouldn't have the affectionately named "WMD dislike train").