PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

It is your choice to continue or to change your wording slightly from "pcars is simcade" to "pcars is not my choice for best handling/feeling sim".

The handling/feeling part DEFINE whether or not it is or isn't a sim in my book, and whilst no-one's forcing you or anyone else to buy into my views, that's first and foremost how I judge sims.

I view games like Dirt2, Shift1/2/F1 2010/11/12 as simcade{I own all of these games}.
I view games like Netkar/FVA/GTR EVO/GSC 2013/GTL as sims by virtue of their overall combo of FFB delivery and believable car behaviour/physics.

Pcars feels like it'll slot in with the Dirt2/Shift group, and as long as the cars operate well with my wheel, then I'd quickly declare it a good and worthy racing title, but as yet, it just doesn't give me the quality of FFB and steering precision that the second group of PC sims does, and until it does, it will remain a simcade title, for me anyway.....

 

[Damage Inc]

Funnier still is that fact that we've been discussing the simcadey quality of pcars for 2yrs, and in that time, not a single car's hit sim status IMO, yet you expect us to believe that within a few short months, 50-70 cars are gonna rock the house with the most advanced physics engine ever built.

In my view, the WMD crowd should ensure that the gameplay modes work well and that simple things aren't left out{like in Shift2}, then we can finally judge an unencumbered SMS game.

In that time a completely new tyre system has been introduced, which is still being developed by Andrew. The time scale is indeed getting shorter which I'm concerned about, but I know jack **** about game development so can't really comment.

It's not as if AC hasn't got cars with handling issues and foibles that many are questioning. It's clearly a common issue that all sims go through, difference is pCARS dirty laundry is out there for everyone to see.

I'd like to see how Reiza would fair developing their own engine from scratch and letting everyone see that process warts and all.

 

[Andy_J]

The amount of personal time and effort put into dissing a title you clearly dislike and never will is frankly embarrassing.

I think the opposite is true too. The amount of time investors try to push their opinions on others is quite frankly scary. You must like it or you must be quiet. This game will either end up as a sim or as simcade. Lets wait and see. I am sure it will be fun no matter what. The personal insults that you guys throw around are getting tiresome now but you don't see any of us reporting you or getting too uptight about it. It is embarrassing to see such vitriol against just one or two people for merely having a negative opinion.

The more this happens, the more it is public and I am sure Mr Bell would rather you just let it go and stop with the fanboyism. (is that actually a word?) As employees (remember, he stated that as investors/Paying alpha testers, you are basically employee's and should behave in the correct manner within his virtual office) of Mr Bells development team, you are causing far to many waves.

 

[Andy_J]

Funnier still is that fact that we've been discussing the simcadey quality of pcars for 2yrs, and in that time, not a single car's hit sim status IMO, yet you expect us to believe that within a few short months, 50-70 cars are gonna rock the house with the most advanced physics engine ever built.

In my view, the WMD crowd should ensure that the gameplay modes work well and that simple things aren't left out{like in Shift2}, then we can finally judge an unencumbered SMS game.

This ^^^^^^

Excellent and sensible post David.

 

[DrJustice]

Since you are inviting to further off-topic, I'll allow myself one more.

I think the opposite is true too. The amount of time investors try to push their opinions on others is quite frankly scary.

I don't see any pushing of opinions from the WMD side. I do see constant, almost pathological, pushing of "opinions" from the detractor side though, like the constant arcade/simcade chanting. What I see from WMD members are people reacting to repeated unreasonable claims and opinions stated as fact.

You must like it or you must be quiet.

That's still BS, and won't become true even if you keep repeating it. AFAIC you can say what you want about the game. As long as I don't see lies/absurdities/trolling, I'm completely fine with that, and I think that goes for other people too.

The personal insults that you guys throw around are getting tiresome now but you don't see any of us reporting you or getting too uptight about it. It is embarrassing to see such vitriol against just one or two people for merely having a negative opinion.

Sigh. Again, what I see is constant dissing and insulting of the WMD community and its members, by a handful of RD members, and that is something I'll never accept. The history of it is very simple: some people were peacefully working away at a new sim, then some people were starting a bit of a dissing campaign of the sim and the community (in part because of their dislike for S2U and thereby SMS), with RD as a HQ for that operation. Reactions to that came as a matter of course (read the second to last paragraph of Micas' posting #904 for one man's perspective on that, which may help you understand).

Like Chris says, the overarching issue seems to be a case of "drains" vs "radiators", and I might add, "saboteurs" vs "entrepreneurs", "destroyers" vs "creators", "attackers" vs "defenders" etc.. Of course the unfortunate internet culture of negativity/vitriol/destruction without consequence plays into it.

Just drop the endless innuendos, the WMD dissing and the incessant arcade/simcade chants, and stick to reasoned testing and critique of the sim, and things will be calmer. If you're not interested in, or don't like the project, I suggest finding something else to do, for everybody's sake. I'm not really expecting you to accept or understand any of it, or for any of that to happen, but I can at least suggest it and hope...

Now lets' see if (the collective) you can do it.

 

[giveme5]

The handling/feeling part DEFINE whether or not it is or isn't a sim in my book, and whilst no-one's forcing you or anyone else to buy into my views, that's first and foremost how I judge sims.

That's OK, it's your opinion, but just to let you know, the rest of the world has clear definition about what simulation is (or isn't).
In short, your very subjective and extremely simplified definition is flat out wrong.

Pcars feels like it'll slot in with the Dirt2/Shift group, and as long as the cars operate well with my wheel, then I'd quickly declare it a good and worthy racing title

Again, very David Ignjatovic centric declaration. As such, why do you feel the need to let the world know about?
It's not that your opinion has changed since last time, so why all the repetition?

Either you post something worthy of discussion or just stop posting all together.

 

[Hired Goon]

The thing is, David Ignjatovic, your views on this title were made abundantly clear many months ago. People who actually are interested in PCARS and enjoy it really don't need to be constantly reminded of your opinion. I've just noticed giveme5's post above and he's trying to communicate the same thing to you. I'm not going to argue whether you are right or wrong on handling/feeling definitions, just that it's maybe time to take the high road and post in assetto or rf2 forums, or whatever titles you actually have a positive rather than a negative interest it. Sound reasonable?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

"saboteurs" vs "entrepreneurs", "destroyers" vs "creators", ".

Funny if it weren't so inverted cause the real sim genre is at risk everytime a bogus sim is advertised and released.

I feel the need to rehash my sim credentials so to speak, so here goes.....

I own or have owned and tried these sims....

GTR
GTL
GTR2+P&G
RACE07/GTR EVO/RACEON+
rf1+rf2
Netkar+FVA+Asseto Corsa
Iracing many times
GSC 2011/12/13

I also own many simcade games like Dirt2/3 etc, however, only the PC sims work best with my wheel and also give a high level of FFB and physics detail, even though some of them have some well known issues.

Consider 2 Deer Hunting games....both claim to be simulating the experience of deer/game hunting.

Game 1 is DX11 with hi-rez textures, epic 3D gun models, outstanding class leading weather effects, but the shooting part feels like it's got auto aim stuck on.

Game 2 is DX9 and has mid level quality GFX and SFX, gun models don't look anywhere as good as game 1, but the treatment of the shooting and the optics are very realistic in that proper aiming/technique must be used.

To me, Game 2 is the sim as it favours simulating the core aspect of the game, ie, the act of shooting, it's the same with Netkar vs Pcars, whereby netkars mix of physics/FFB and tyre model are the main focus and the game deserves it's status as a simulator as it favours the act of driving.

 

[DrJustice]

Funny if it weren't so inverted cause the real sim genre is at risk everytime a bogus sim is advertised and released.

Are we to understand that by this do you mean that:
- The creation of pCARS is an act of destruction?
- pCARS is a bogus sim?
- pCARS stands to destroy the sim genre?

Edit: With no response, I take it that the implied postulation of D.I. stands. And if that is the case, IMO it is a quite absurd and paranoid stance.

 

[Stefan Mizzi]

I have just tried the last build and have to say I'm flabbergasted!

Wow, just wow, the FFB felt totally awesome and they are surely nailing it....it felt soo good, its becoming very close to the best imho.

Knew they could do it and I'm sure its gonna get better and better....can't wait for it to be finished as this will be one of my top sims. Of course, it also the nicest looking too

Cheers

 

[Andy_J]

I too look forward to the finished product. It will be nice to see if after all this time it does come good and I will be the first to say thank you to WMD/SMS for a great product. If it does not, I am sure some of you will be man enough to apologise for the negativity and down right hostility you have shown to a few here who have dared to critique the build in progress.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Thanks Stefan for letting us know and getting us back on topic.

 

[Micas_WMD]

I too look forward to the finished product. It will be nice to see if after all this time it does come good and I will be the first to say thank you to WMD/SMS for a great product. If it does not, I am sure some of you will be man enough to apologise for the negativity and down right hostility you have shown to a few here who have dared to critique the build in progress.

Cheers
Andy

Absolutely. I will be realistic about any failings of the finished product. I'll also do my level best to influence SMS to improve it. The intention is not to abandon pCARS upon release and move onto something else, but rather build on it as a long-term franchise. Using the WMD resources, I think the quality of the game (at the very least from a bug standpoint) will be second-to-none. Most developers don't have access to testers with such a wide range of hardware configurations.

And while I agree to be honest and realistic about the finished product, can you be patient and critique it then? Can you lay off the constant vitriol for now? At least wait until beta, and then if you have thoughts, work in the system to help improve it? Nobody has ever "shown hostility" to critiques if they are phrased so as to improve the situation rather than appear to do nothing more than cause harm to what we're working on. The constant harangues can create a negative narrative that builds and feeds on itself. It can become trendy to hate pCARS and SMS. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that when what SMS is trying to do is so incredibly positive. Gamers and fans of the racing sim genre are brought in very early in development and everyone works toward a common goal. Nobody else does that the way that WMD does. For those of us who have been hard-core gamers for decades, it's the holy grail. We don't want that model to fail because some people have an axe to grind. We want more companies to go that route. There would be no more BF4-like releases. It's kumbaya, world peace, ending wars, feeding the hungry etc., of video games.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Why will pcars fail if it isn't a sim?.....did Dirt2/3 fail, or F1 2010/11/12/13?

 

[Hired Goon]

For my part, I've played sims since Grand Prix by Geoff Crammond, and I prefer sim over arcade, particularly as I age. I had many of the concerns others have had (center pivoty feel, floaty feel, unpredictable behaviour on the limit, etc), but it really has come along very nicely. I hated Shift and had reservations about how it would influence PCARS, but it is so clear to me that the development team are succeeding in making it as realistic as they possibly can. Some of the cars feel a bit light with the FFB at default, but simply turning up the tire force (not just the FFB level) from either the main menu, or by increasing the multiplier in the F1 menu in-game does the trick for me.

 

[Hired Goon]

Why will pcars fail if it isn't a sim?.....did Dirt2/3 fail, or F1 2010/11/12/13?

I don't think it will fail commercially. It may not live up to the expectations of some but the goal is indeed "sim". Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but just give it more of a chance. In the end, if you don't like it, don't play it, play something else.

 

[Micas_WMD]

Why will pcars fail if it isn't a sim?.....did Dirt2/3 fail, or F1 2010/11/12/13?

Yes, yes, yes, a million times, we get it. You think pCARS can be a very good "simcade" game. You don't get to define the term that is commonly accepted to describe pCARS. It will emerge as a consensus. Why don't you just leave it alone and let it happen (or not) organically instead of trying to create that narrative on your own?

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Latest Build testing.

 

[Mark Quigley]

A challenge for anyone who has a non ffb wheel to have a go in pcars.

The Caterham sp300r for example feels just like the MRT5 in LFS.
I notice no lack of precision from pcars but playing both back to back in various cars without ffb, it is LFS that lacks physics detail which pcars has in buckets.
Any similarities vanish when I use a ffb wheel.
I chose LFS because I played it to death for years with a non ffb wheel.

We know already the ffb in pcars needs work and I know from a few hundred hours playing that good ffb can change when they make changes to the tires, it can go from good to bad overnight.

 

[Damage Inc]

Well I've tested quite a bit today, including a back to back test of the BMW 1M at monza/Milan of pCARS and AC. Had to drive both cars near identically, same brake points, lost the rear a few times at the same points of the track in both games, AC just feels ever so slightly more polished and refined than pCARS which is to be expected. pCARS is not a million miles away from AC and most certainly by every non biased definition of the word a Simulation.

I also tested the Mustang Cobra at Anhalt/Oscherleben and it was a blast, bloody excellent for such a new addition. Same with the Audi R8 LMS ultra, brilliant.