PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[DrJustice]

I agree. They can label me what they like. They can belittle and call names all they like. The game is and always will be simcade in my opinion compared to other sims that is unless it changes dranatically. I won't rise to the insults from some on here because I know that is what they want. They do seem to like personal insults and some seem to be taking an unhealthy interest in me personally.

Can we just discuss the latest build on this thread?

Please stop victimizing yourself, Andy. You are quite the slugger, dishing out insults and trolling posts. This sudden delicate sensitivity only looks pathetic and dishonest, if I'm honest

Yes, we can discuss the latest build, but you yourself are most definitely given to off topic postings, and not exactly being conducive to friendly debate - so again don't act all innocent. Let's see how it goes from here then...

 

[Chris Partridge]

Fine by me. Everyone is very clear where you stand now.

 

[Chris Partridge]

Please stop victimizing yourself, Andy. You are quite the slugger, dishing out insults and trolling posts. This sudden delicate sensitivity only looks pathetic and dishonest, if I'm honest

Yes, we can discuss the latest build, but you yourself are most definitely given to OTs, so again don't act all innocent.

"He can dish it out - but cannot take it"

 

[Andy_J]

"He can dish it out - but cannot take it"

Just what have I dished out Chris? Apart from my opinion on the game and some of the more excitable WMD investors. What exactly am I dishing out here? Why can't you guys do as Bram has requested and put me on ignore. Why can't you just discuss the build?

 

[Andy_J]

Please stop victimizing yourself, Andy. You are quite the slugger, dishing out insults and trolling posts.

What insults have I dished out Dr? Have I insulted you personally? I am not victimising myself, I really couldn't care less what you call me or why you call me names. I just think that other members here are getting a bit fed up of this and would rather see us discuss the latest build.

So I'll ask again, either discuss the latest build without insults or put me on ignore. Hows that?

 

[RaceNut]

As has been suggested before, anyone with access, not satisfied with the direction of the physics and/or FFB in Pcars is able to test and give their feedback directly to the developers. Why not voice your concerns on the WMD forums? If you are able to determine that the handling is arcade/simcade, etc., you should be able to assist the developers with your expertise in such matters and influence the direction in a positive way. Put the effort and passion where it is most useful.

Regarding the FFB, SMS won't even start the real development on it until the tire model is complete. If you want to compare the physics with another title, try turning FFB off and then any comparison will be closer to "fair". The affect of any of the senses used in sim-racing, sight, sound, touch, should not be under-estimated. Take away one of those and the experience changes in a big way. Try driving without sound to see what happens. Suddenly, timing shifts or judging grip is compromised.

 

[Andy_J]

Thank you Racenut.

 

[Micas_WMD]

Not to mention your unofficial spokesman "MICAS". Surely he might have created me?

All hail my POWER!!1

 

[Damage Inc]

By what method is pcars actually correct?

No-ones actually saying that pCARS is correct or not (at least I know that I'm not), SMS are trying to make it as correct as possible within the very limiting capabilities of modern computers. No current game will be a true sim, that is fact.

AC,GSC,Iracing, RF2 et al are just as simcade as pCARS is. In every sense of the word as defined here time and time again.

Your favourite subject is FFB and the feel of the cars, FFB is mainly a fudge, not realistic at all, you don't feel the weight of a car via the wheel, so every game that has that is fudging reality to convey something the only way they can can. So it's not remotely realistic. NO sim can possibly convey weight transfer without a full hydraulic rig. Hell every time I drive my road car even 30-40mph I am judging how to drive by the feelings of inertia on my body, not via any feelings in the wheel.

Using FFB as an example of one games "reality" over another is (as I've said often) facile.




Oh and someone should tell Andy that most wmd members just bought a game, like everyone else does, the only thing we are invested in is having a good sim to race.

 

[Damage Inc]

If you want, you can google pcars and find discontent at heaps of forums, so there's no need to pretend that the anti pcars brigade is holed up only at RD.
Btw, all the other sims have no reference to reality in your view?

It almost sounds like on this occasion, pcars is the first ever true sim, that the rest have just been guesses and the reason we're being treated to this inaugural sim is down to Ben Collins.....LOLx2.

I can google pcars and find lots of people happy with the progress. Talking of the discontent, how many dissing pCARS are doing so purely because it is a rival to their sim of preference.

The point is, comparing a game to a game on the subject of reality is just plain daft. A person can prefer sim a to sim b....that's fair enough and no reasonable person could object to that. But it's when a person says sim a is more realistic than sim b because of "facile reasoning", that's when it all goes pete tong.

Can anyone tell me if any game has had access to someone who has DRIVEN a shed load of Various fast cars during development?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Your favourite subject is FFB and the feel of the cars, FFB is mainly a fudge, not realistic at all, y

You must think I'm a PS3 console racer

The FACT is, a paper/physics sim is BOGUS, ie, no matter the maths/code, if it doesn't drive like a real car via the controller, then it's not only not a sim, it's crap.

That said, I'm not endorsing pcars as being good on paper btw.

I also think it's hilarious that you think you're going to discount the bulk of sims from GTR-GSC 2013 and act like their quality is irrelevant to the thought process of a sim racer.

 

[Mark Quigley]

I would rather drive a sim that reflects reality than one that reflects the last sim I liked.
Would be a dull world if every sim felt the same.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I would rather drive a sim that reflects reality than one that reflects the last sim I liked.
Would be a dull world if every sim felt the same.

What if your last sim was far superior?

 

[Mark Quigley]

What if your last sim was far superior?

I would still be playing and singing praise of GP Legends and everything since then would be a clone.

 

[markjk7]

I've just updated and tried Pcars again after a long break, only tried it once since it moved to Steam i think.
I had a few issues which I wonder if it's the true state of current build or if it's my install, hope for some help;
Menu screens have overlapping text, very obvious on controller config screen and impossible to read.
started race at Brands and formation lap was AI controlled but all cars reversed into each other and generally crashed into each other trying to drive wrong way round track.
tried laguna seca and cars crashed over something at first corner causing very impressive carnage...

I'm thinking i may need a clean install but my internet is so slow I'd prefer to avoid if possible. any thoughts or comments on resolving these general issues?
Apart from the above it seem to be making good progress if only i could get to drive a race...

 

[Damage Inc]

You must think I'm a PS3 console racer

The FACT is, a paper/physics sim is BOGUS, ie, no matter the maths/code, if it doesn't drive like a real car via the controller, then it's not only not a sim, it's crap.

That said, I'm not endorsing pcars as being good on paper btw.

I also think it's hilarious that you think you're going to discount the bulk of sims from GTR-GSC 2013 and act like their quality is irrelevant to the thought process of a sim racer.

No I don't think that. It's very clear that you, Andy and Kjell are all Sim nuts..just like me.

What I call into question is your experiences in driving the cars that appear in these sims, so I question all your abilities to come to a conclusion that Sim a is better than Sim b at simulating a Pagani Zonda R (for example).

IMO pCARS drives like a real car with my CSR, at the most basic level it fully simulates the effects of steering, throttle and brake. So on that level it is as sim as you can get.

Of course the real complexity of a sim is it's tyre model, and here I will say that pCARS is behind ACs in development time, also it seems to me that Andrew is trying something new (don't quote me on that the tyre physics discussions over at WMD are complex and in depth). It's all very interesting and IMO deserving of the support of the community as a whole rather than have this petty bickering (and I hold my hands up for contributing at times).

And where on earth do you get that I'm discounting previous sims and act that their quality is irrelevant from what I've said?? I've played a shedload of sims across shedloads of platforms and NONE have conveyed to me the real feelings of driving a car properly....because they can't. I'm not discounting them, I'm just explaining that every sim doesn't properly simulate reality. They all do the best they can, and try to aid us, the players, with tricks like ffb to help us understand what is going on. But no matter how you look at it a lot of ffb info is just that, a trick.

 

[RaceNut]

Both the AI and menus are getting a major overhaul ATM. I think the AI issues vary greatly from one track to the next so try a few others to see how they compare. I recommend reading up a little on the AI thread in the WMD forums to see what kind of changes are being made from one build to the next.

As always, be sure to delete your "Cars" folder in your documents folder before trying new builds.

 

[Damage Inc]

I've just updated and tried Pcars again after a long break, only tried it once since it moved to Steam i think.
I had a few issues which I wonder if it's the true state of current build or if it's my install, hope for some help;
Menu screens have overlapping text, very obvious on controller config screen and impossible to read.
started race at Brands and formation lap was AI controlled but all cars reversed into each other and generally crashed into each other trying to drive wrong way round track.
tried laguna seca and cars crashed over something at first corner causing very impressive carnage...

I'm thinking i may need a clean install but my internet is so slow I'd prefer to avoid if possible. any thoughts or comments on resolving these general issues?
Apart from the above it seem to be making good progress if only i could get to drive a race...

Overlapping text is a known issue, the UI is nowhere near finalised so it's an irritant we have to put with for the foreseeable future. Brands and Laguna have not had much AIW work done on them, there's a thread about which tracks have had some work (note, even those mentioned still need work IMO), and the Ai code is being worked on as well. It's a case of try every track with various Ai settings and find a combo that works, then post about it on WMD for the devs to see.

edit ninja'd by racenut!

 

[David Ignjatovic]

No I don't think that. It's very clear that you, Andy and Kjell are all Sim nuts..just like me.
.

And none of us need WMD boosters informing us of basic info related to sims, we already know and understand the limitations of sim racing via a controller, so IMO, the last thing you want is the relationship between the physics and controller borked/gimped due to the primacy of physics{on paper realism} vs in game driving quality.

Of course, I'm not of the view that this is what's happening in pcars case, I'm of the view that it's Shift3, and nothing wrong with that as long as the non sim related problems of Shift2 are fixed.....and it seems as though that'll be the case, but as far as pcars being a sim or on the verge of being one, I don't feel or see it.

 

[Mark Quigley]

How do people feel their favorite sim compares to a pro sim, run by a team, used for data acquisition to apply to the real world?
Pick a sim, any sim, and the answer will be the same, toys, we are playing with toys.
Some would have you believe the differences are massive but in fact we are just playing with ourselves.