PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

people comparing sims (when we have no real proof that what they are comparing pCARS to is actually correct).

By what method is pcars actually correct?

 

[RaceNut]

As a heads up for people, Ben Collins (some say he was the stig) really rates the Capri and the Formula C.

Personally I think that the opinions of Ben (who isn't just a name driver plonked on a gaming rig for some sound bites and quotes after 30 mins of farting around..he is actually TESTING the games physics) carries significantly more weight than people comparing sims (when we have no real proof that what they are comparing pCARS to is actually correct).

I generally agree but, being experienced in both RL racing and Sim-racing is also essential IMO. Otherwise, the judgement applied to the Sim might be totally wrong. In the case of Ben Collins, I believe he has both so his opinion should carry considerable weight. Having said that, it's still hard to find two sim-racers that agree on what title has the best driving feel and/or realism.

Anyone jumping from one title to another, let alone genres, will likely be quite confused.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

In the case of Ben Collins, I believe he has both so his opinion should carry considerable weight.

LOL, how many RL racers were supporting Shift2 and the ultra arcadey Dirt3?

 

[DrJustice]

^ The difference being that those were poster boys, whereas Nic & Ben do regular in depth testing and reporting for all WMD members to see. I reckon you know that full well, but never miss an opportunity to misrepresent the sim

 

[RaceNut]

LOL, how many RL racers were supporting Shift2 and the ultra arcadey Dirt3?

I don't know - didn't pay any attention really. I never expected either of those to be Sim's. Time will tell how Pcars stacks up when it's done. Right now, it seems to be moving in the right direction.

 

[Andy_J]

^ The difference being that those were poster boys, whereas Nic & Ben do regular in depth testing and reporting for all WMD members to see. I reckon you know that full well, but never miss an opportunity to misrepresent the sim

Why would he misrepresent the sim? Does it ever occur to you and the other investors that some people might have a different opinion? Surely not everyone can be positive towards everything being made until they are satisfied with what they see and test? In your world it would not be possible to have say opposing teams in Football because only the right minded and sane people will support the one team. Anyone supporting the other team are childish and not right thinking? Is that correct?

 

[DrJustice]

^ That's unrelated and you're incorrect.

The point was that the poster boys D.I. mentioned are quite different from the diligent testers we have in pCARS. Therefore, likening S2U and D3 driver involvement with pCARS driver involvement is a misrepresentation of pCARS, and with the "LOL" it's also and attempt at ridicule. Such comments need to be corrected.

As for the question "Why would he misrepresent the sim?", we all know the answer to that.

 

[traind]

It is hard to take any substantive exception with Ben Collin's feedback to SMS & WMD. He praises and criticizes in almost equal measure. And when he praises he usually says something like "now if you could just also 'fill in blank with a needed improvement', that would be really great". I think his feedback has been routinely excellent because of his polished candor. In addition, of course, to his fast car driving resume being broader than just about anyone else on the planet due to years of Top Gear + racing.

That being said, it is true that his feedback falls only within the spectrum of comparing pCars to real life. That's fine-- as it is ultimately what most of us are after. But for the purposes of the never ending argument contained on Race Department forums, it is somewhat limited. Limited in the sense that he isn't commenting on pCars vs. Assetto Corsa vs. RF2 vs. GSC vs. iRacing vs. real life. So when Ben says a car feels really good in pCars, he means just that. It doesn't mean it feels better than the same car in "fill in the blank with your favorite sim" That doesn't make his great input any less valuable in developing pCars, it's just that it can't be used for direct comparison to other titles.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Race Department forums, it is somewhat limited. Limited in the sense that he isn't commenting on pCars vs. Assetto Corsa vs. RF2 vs. GSC vs. iRacing vs. real life. So when Ben says a car feels really good in pCars, he means just that. It doesn't mean it feels better than the same car in "fill in the blank with your favorite sim" That doesn't make his great input any less valuable in developing pCars, it's just that it can't be used for direct comparison to other titles.

If you want, you can google pcars and find discontent at heaps of forums, so there's no need to pretend that the anti pcars brigade is holed up only at RD.
Btw, all the other sims have no reference to reality in your view?

It almost sounds like on this occasion, pcars is the first ever true sim, that the rest have just been guesses and the reason we're being treated to this inaugural sim is down to Ben Collins.....LOLx2.

 

[Chris Partridge]

Andy I am perplexed with your fixation with pCARS in the negative context. I have had a look back through all your posts and the results are, well, a little bit worrying. It's like an internet version of tourettes. Can you really not see how your posts are perceived by others? By all means have a view. But you seem obsessed with stating it, re-stating it, re-re-stating it and .... I'm bored. And no I am not a big "investor". I have in the game the sort of money you can blow on a night out. For the sake of yourself, if nothing else, just let it go. WE KNOW WHAT YOU THINK

 

[traind]

If you want, you can google pcars and find discontent at heaps of forums, so there's no need to pretend that the anti pcars brigade is holed up only at RD.
Btw, all the other sims have no reference to reality in your view?

It almost sounds like on this occasion, pcars is the first ever true sim, that the rest have just been guesses and the reason we're being treated to this inaugural sim is down to Ben Collins.....LOLx2.

David, as my old math department used to say "it is inherently obvious to even the casual observer" that I never mentioned other sims have no reference to reality nor that pcars is the first sim nor that Ben Collins input alone makes pcars a sim.

My post praised Collins' input but said nothing about the quality of pcars vs. other sims. In fact, it essentially states that even if Collins ends up praising the final handling feel of pcars it does not equal him saying that pcars is better or more realistic than other sim titles. Nor did I say he is the final arbiter of realism-- even though his experience certainly should be weighed more heavily than mine.

Your distorted interpretation is a shame as I know you have a lot of sim experience and a bit of real world track experience that could be leveraged for a productive discussion if you chose to do so.

 

[DrJustice]

... WE KNOW WHAT YOU (Andy J.) THINK

We do indeed, and for those who missed it I'll be as bold as to add this quote where he comes clean and shows his true colours:

God, I hope Pcars is a complete disaster sales wise. Their INVESTORS just make me sick. They are certainly not in it for the Sim potential. Purely for the money or potential profit. I have never hoped a game development would fail so much. Some of their investors are the worst examples of human beings. People of no morals. Jeez, most of them just want a return and to hell with a great sim.
Shift 3 (Pcars) will never be a great sim, despite what they claim. A money spinner maybe, but a sim, nah.

Charming, innit?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

t even if Collins ends up praising the final handling feel of pcars it does not equal him saying that pcars is better or more realistic than other sim titles. Nor did I say he is the final arbiter of realism-- even though his experience certainly should be weighed more heavily than mine.
.

Anyone on the payroll will most definitely praise the final build, that much should be obvious.
Pcars is 100% simcade IMO, whereas masterpieces like GSC 2013 are the benchmark for sim racing by virtue of their outstanding combo of physics and FFB.

We always have to bear in mind that actual physics perfection{beyond the mathematical and computational challenge} might not be a reality as the controller is the only means of conveying the experience of the car, so at least for me, the quality and range of the FFB is important as is the believability of the physics.

One more thing...a sim race driver must be able to perform a number of tasks....

1.....hotlap
2...complete the race in a timely fashion
3....overtake and defend his position

None of these things are possible with either wonky physics or FFB.

 

[Chris Partridge]

We do indeed, and for those who missed it I'll be as bold as to add this quote where he comes clean and shows his true colours:



Charming, innit?

Only a moron in a hurry would want any sim to fail as every sim needs to succeed to ensure the grenre continues to flourish. It's a great shame people should feel this way about anything.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Only a moron in a hurry would want any sim to fail as every sim needs to succeed to ensure the grenre continues to flourish. It's a great shame people should feel this way about anything.

Nowhere have I or most of the people here at RD ever suggested that pcars isn't worthy as a racing game, the discussion has always revolved{primarily} around it's sim/simcade status.

 

[Chris Partridge]

Nothing wrong with that debate - except it has been tainted by some/one particular attitudes.

 

[Andy_J]

Nowhere have I or most of the people here at RD ever suggested that pcars isn't worthy as a racing game, the discussion has always revolved{primarily} around it's sim/simcade status.

I agree. They can label me what they like. They can belittle and call names all they like. The game is and always will be simcade in my opinion compared to other sims that is unless it changes dranatically. I won't rise to the insults from some on here because I know that is what they want. They do seem to like personal insults and some seem to be taking an unhealthy interest in me personally.

Can we just discuss the latest build on this thread?

 

[Chris Partridge]

I agree. They can label me what they like. They can belittle and call names all they like. The game is and always will be simcade in my opinion compared to other sims that is unless it changes dranatically. I won't rise to the insults from some on here because I know that is what they want. They do seem to like personal insults and some seem to be taking an unhealthy interest in me personally.

Can we just discuss the latest build on this thread?

Why not judge you from your own words Andy, which are:
"God, I hope Pcars is a complete disaster sales wise. Their INVESTORS just make me sick. They are certainly not in it for the Sim potential. Purely for the money or potential profit. I have never hoped a game development would fail so much. Some of their investors are the worst examples of human beings. People of no morals. Jeez, most of them just want a return and to hell with a great sim."

Do you wish to distance yourself from that comment?

 

[Andy_J]

Only a moron in a hurry would want any sim to fail as every sim needs to succeed to ensure the grenre continues to flourish. It's a great shame people should feel this way about anything.

No need for personal insults Christopher. I don't yet regard Pcars as a sim so I didn't want a sim to fail at all.

 

[Andy_J]

Why not judge you from your own words Andy, which are:
"God, I hope Pcars is a complete disaster sales wise. Their INVESTORS just make me sick. They are certainly not in it for the Sim potential. Purely for the money or potential profit. I have never hoped a game development would fail so much. Some of their investors are the worst examples of human beings. People of no morals. Jeez, most of them just want a return and to hell with a great sim."

Do you wish to distance yourself from that comment?

Not at all Christopher. I said most of them, not all of them. Remember some of the characters that invaded here with the worst of insults and threats of court cases etc. Not to mention your unofficial spokesman "MICAS". Surely he might have created me?

Can we discuss the game now? The latest build by chance. No need to keep concentrating on me personally. There's a nice chap.