PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[ONT]

I wouldn´t say that the grip level in PCARS is incorrect. But what the FFB makes out of this is very faulty. Those jolts feel like somebody would hammer on the side of my tires with a sledgehammer. The steering wheel becomes light and stiff and back again so that cannot rely on the information. Its like driving on oil slicks. I never had this in real life on a dry track. Last car I could test for many days was a standard Audi R8. Before that I had a Lotus Elise. Both cars are completely different but although the Elise is very direct its rather smooth driving, lets not talk about the overweight R8. In Pcars the steering wheel slams into your palm as soon as you hit the slightest bump, so hard that you think you drive up a curb. But I think that this is just a minor problem that will be solved. Maybe by some modder with a "realistic FFB" mod. The bigger problem is the absent grip info and connection between tyre and tarmac.

To get to the point, right now we get an exaggerated impression of what happens with the suspension but nothing usable from the tires. No rattling in the steering wheel when the front tires scrub with understeer, no difference between hard a doughy steering wheel when the the back steps out and you want to countersteer. And its impossible to get a feeling for the turn in. I constantly drive into the grass because the turn in happens so uneven. SO its impossible to get a feeling for cornering speed when your car constantly brakes out of line.

And thats the pointe, the core, the main reason of a sim.

I mean lets have a look on what the press says about Pcars . PCARS is all about eye candy, graphics, sound. Where is the sim in it?

Project cars
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Proje...erliebtheit-beeindruckt-immer-wieder-1091562/
http://www.golem.de/news/project-cars-virtuelle-rennsimulation-in-4k-mit-60-hz-1309-101433.html
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Pr...e-Shadows-Multi-Threaded-Shadowing-59659.html

Without knowing Your settings it's hard to tell.... but it sure sounds like FFB clipping.

Try FFB 90 and Tire force at around 40.

Use the sine curve in telemetry window to make sure it is not reaching bottom or top.

 

[Andy_J]

That is a very flippant and unhelpful response from a moderator, if I'm honest. I can agree that this sub forum isn't doing much good, though

The beta claim is false. Simple as that. It's not backed up by any facts or indeed the reality of the situation. On Andi's part it's an argument from ignorance. On my part it's an argument from indisputable facts (ref. previous posting).

The terms of this forum states that content which is false should not be posted. I would therefore expect the mods to support corrections when such postings are made. Do you not want this sub forum to have a semblance of credibility and honesty?

So for the last time from me this time around (although I promise to contribute factual information in this and other areas if needed, and if I can be bothered):

Dear readers, the game is far from finished. The current builds are pre alpha. From the current state, we can reasonably expect it to be near feature complete and having development of major parts being complete ca. medio 2014. In the mean time the builds will vary a lot as development goes ahead.

Dear games developer, pre alpha, pre Beta, pre half done simcade, whatever you want to call it, it's definetly pre something. My latest testing informs me that this has got nowhere of any significance yet. Maybe by 2015 it will be ready and will be fit to be called a racing simulator and we can use it for racing. My posted content is not false, it's my opinion and so far my opinion of this game is that it is still rubbish compared to even Game Stock Car or even Shift 2 modded. Yeah it looks pretty, but that's it so far.

Keep trying.

ps, I think the sub forum is wonderful.

 

[Andy_J]

i apologise to everyone for possibly misleading people , what i typed was based on my opinion from my understanding of how stages of software development are commonly named and my personal take on what phase pcars was at within my understanding of this process .
i understand that the pcars team also has the right to have there own opinion on what phase of development the game is at and accept this right without question.

As i said before i apologise for posting something that was an opinion

Andi

You should not apologise for stating an opinion.

 

[Ryan Vickery]

Andy, you're entitled to your opinion and all. But you say "It's rubbish even compared to Game Stock Car".. Which just happens to be possibily the highest rated sim on the market among hardcore sim racers? Then when you throw in the "Shift 2" modded as the icing on the cake I find it really hard to believe anyone could take you serious.

I mean, where are you going with this? Are you trying to state that you think Game Stock Car is rubbish too, and contrary to popular belief Shift 2 is actually better than we give it credit for?

To me it's a bit of a confused post.

 

[Andy_J]

No Ryan. You are incorrect. I actually rate Shift 2 in the same catagory as PCars. But it is better at the moment, by a long way. Modded Shift 2 that is. So feel confused if it makes you feel better.

 

[traind]

No Ryan. You are incorrect. I actually rate Shift 2 in the same catagory as PCars. But it is better at the moment, by a long way. Modded Shift 2 that is. So feel confused if it makes you feel better.

You said "it's rubbish even compared to Game Stock Car" which gives the impression you think little of Game Stock Car and even less of pCars. That was central to Ryan's observation. You may well think GSC isn't very good, but because most people tend to think the opposite, it makes your post either poorly written or it puzzles us as to what you think is actually a decent sim title.

 

[Andy_J]

I compared it to GSC purely because that was made with a fraction of the budget and far exceeds PCars for simulation goodness. Let it puzzle you if that's what floats your argumentative minds.

As for a decent sim title, don't even think Pcars is any where near that accolade. It isn't a sim, it's simcade.

 

[Chris Partridge]

I compared it to GSC purely because that was made with a fraction of the budget and far exceeds PCars for simulation goodness. Let it puzzle you if that's what floats your argumentative minds.

As for a decent sim title, don't even think Pcars is any where near that accolade. It isn't a sim, it's simcade.

Why's that then? Can you say why? (I'm primed )

 

[traind]

I compared it to GSC purely because that was made with a fraction of the budget and far exceeds PCars for simulation goodness. Let it puzzle you if that's what floats your argumentative minds.

As for a decent sim title, don't even think Pcars is any where near that accolade. It isn't a sim, it's simcade.

It's really your poor typing (or grammar) more than Ryan or I trying to argue with you. And then you getting snippy with Ryan. Perhaps others are arguing with you though. I make plenty of errors writing so I can't really blame you for that.

At least you have some sense of perspective and don't think GSC is close to rubbish! I agree with the budget issue for GSC vs. pCars but remember a few key facts for the comparison. Reiza was not developing their own simulation model-- they used one that was developed long ago and was refined for years. They also are not licensing the same amount of content.

As far as sim vs the "simcade" for pCars-- IMO, that's just an inflammatory statement not based in reality. Everything about pCars is oriented toward simulation. In the end, it is possible the handling model won't be the best sim, but if there is a quality issue with FFB or physics it certainly won't be from lack of trying or from targeting the title as "simcade".

Personally, I think pCars has a real shot at getting on the podium for handling and FFB. It certainly isn't guaranteed at this point though even though there are flashes of excellence. The competition isn't sitting still either. I am hoping for it-- many other features of pCars seem very likely to secure a spot on the proverbial podium vs other sims, It would be a shame if the handling feel didn't end up getting there too.

 

[Peter]

"Reiza was not developing their own simulation model-- they used one that was developed long ago and was refined for years. They also are not licensing the same amount of content."

Pcars also uses a model that's developed years ago and GSC have a complete licensed racing series.

 

[traind]

"Reiza was not developing their own simulation model-- they used one that was developed long ago and was refined for years. They also are not licensing the same amount of content."

Pcars also uses a model that's developed years ago and GSC have a complete licensed racing series.

SMS do have the graphics engine from before-- which is why graphics were so advanced from the start but everything else was not. However, they are essentially building their physics and FFB engine anew for pCars. If you spend any time on wmd that is abundantly clear to even the casual observer. Reiza took ISI's well established and fully functional engine and tweaked it for excellence... really not even a close comparison.

Yes Reiza has several licenses... obviously! They have a pretty nice assortment of types of cars with very few different car models actually included in GSC-- so they made good choices with limited licensing. But look at the number of car manufacturers and the number of tracks in pcars. Can't you see the difference?

 

[Peter]

I can see the difference, GSC is doing a better job. Full race series and licensed tracks.

 

[traind]

I can see the difference, GSC is doing a better job. Full race series and licensed tracks.

Everyone's opinion will vary on content choices. I suppose if you are are a big fan of Brazilian Stock Car racing then GSC's primary license will be the pinnacle.

I think Reiza is pretty awesome with the RF1 engine. I like being exposed to all the Brazilian tracks I'd never heard of (Interlagos being the exception) but I would hesitate to put the GSC tracks in my personal top tier of road courses (Interlagos excepted again). pCars has most, but not all, of my personal favorite tracks included, which is nice.

 

[Andi Goodwin]

i think i will hold judgement on the pcars content until there are licenses as at the moment there arent many ; yes lots of tracks with fictitious names and the same with the series ... i would love it to succeed and soon but will as i say wait to see what they actually have when it comes closer to release

Andi

 

[Andy_J]

Everyone's opinion will vary on content choices. I suppose if you are are a big fan of Brazilian Stock Car racing then GSC's primary license will be the pinnacle.

I think Peter means he prefers substance over content. I do too.

 

[Ryan Vickery]

I drive a Ford Focus ST and I have to say I've driven it pretty hard and know how it feels at the limit (scary, dangerous, twitchy oversteer and very nervious). Now when I drove the Focus RS (basically the model up from mine) in Project Cars it was exactly like my car in high speed behaviour.

Now yes it was unrefined and it was perhaps a little more exagerated but it was the closest thing I've driven to my own car in a game/sim. Now there are many characteristics the game didn't get right (which I can't be sure about as the RS is a higher performance car) but I have to hand it to them for what they did get right. The way the tyres react and the way the chasis moves at high speeds, the way the chassis moves when you turn the wheel and the general movement in the car was almost spot on, I don't play Project Cars a lot, I havent driven the Focus in the game for months, but from the only real life comparison I can make I think they have the right intentions and are working hard towards achieving those goals.


Project Cars is up and down a lot, sometimes they take 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but they are making progress and it is coming along nicely. It probably won't be the best sim out there and It isn't going to win everyone over but they have +/- a year to work on it and I'm sure that it will definitely be a great game from my point of view. I love driving the 1977 Lotus, it is for me one of the best cars in the game and definitely shouts of a proper sim car to me, and sure it ain't perfect but it also ain't finished.

 

[Andy_J]

Do you drive your ST on the track Ryan?

 

[Ryan Vickery]

Been to Llandow a couple of times with it yeah, though the scary moments are a certain road on the drive home that I haven't ever driven around at 90mph at all, I always stick to the 50mph speed limit on these roads.

Always.

 

[TherealWalkman]

Any news on the FBB? I wont install because I hate getting frustrated

 

[Chris Partridge]

Hi everyone -- been doing some tyre temperature tests with the McLaren GT3 at Northampton -- sunny day in summer. The figures for the default tyre are absolutely spot on for the time it takes in real life for the rubber to get up to temperature, the temperature the tyres reach and the expected overheating temperature during an errant spin.

Below is the transition from Lap 1 (white/grey line) to lap 4 (colours) - note the spin in lap 1: