Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

That is from Tyriel Wood's review video. The scan and custom facemask creation process obviously did not work as planned and he got a totally crooked facemask and had to carve and cut it himself. Hope that will not happen on a regular basis, but shows what actually can happen if you go from lab units to mass production.

Thanks! Yes, I remember his comments now. They've been spending a lot of time working with the scan software to improve the whole process. I guess I'll see when I get mine, but I understand they are getting very reliable facial scans now.

 

[cnhoff]

Thanks! Yes, I remember his comments now. They've been spending a lot of time working with the scan software to improve the whole process.

I hope so! There is quite an analogy to my experience with the Crystal vs. early reviews using alpha SW and firmware.

 

[blekenbleu]

higher persistence of those OLED panels

OLEDs typically have faster response times than LCDs.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Maybe the higher persistence of those OLED panels acts like a smoothing filter. At least VR Flight Sim Guy mentioned he can see some smearing when turning his head fast while looking at text.

 

[wajdi]

At this point I’m keeping my G2 reverb. I don’t have any hope that Big Screen will add any time soon my country to the shipping list .. I see even many European countries not included on the shipping list.
Maybe next year Valve will surprise us with a new headset?!
Maybe Quest3 ?!!
For now my G2 paired with the FOV gasket and my 4090 is doing great.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Based on recent leaks, the next index should be the first real HDR VR headset with 10bit color support among many other things.

It's interesting that it's looking like it will only run in HDR mode and will have to up convert for games that only support 8 bit color.

What is interesting is that it "appears" that the new Valve headset could be used for spatial computing as well allowing for a large number of virtual monitor screens.

So going head to head with Apple for Windows machines and possibly linux machines.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

10 bit panel just can support larger gamut, i.e. superset of 8bit, there is nothing to downconvert. Also color bit depth not really related to HDR color mapping.

 

[RCHeliguy]

10 bit panel just can support larger gamut, i.e. superset of 8bit, there is nothing to downconvert. Also color bit depth not really related to HDR color mapping.

It would upconvert and interpolate between the values for the color values.

10 bits doesn't increase the color gamut because that is limited by the display's physical ability. There are different color standards, but that isn't related to bit depth either.
Bit depth has to do with the steps between the colors that the display's gamut can represent.

FWIW most testing says that we need 12bit color for banding not to show up in most cases.

Where HDR and 10 bit work together is this whole banding issue. If you have a higher dynamic range between black and white, banding will show more clearly, so having extra bit depth helps make the extra dynamic range look better.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I am not sure you fully understand what you are talking about.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think I got the gamut comment wrong. I was thinking color space.

However, I think I got the rest correct as shown below.

"HDR is 10-bit, or for HDR to truly live up to its billing, you must pair it with a 10-bit display.

But the discussion doesn’t end here. Since 8-bit is short on colors compared to 10-bit, it cannot accurately produce all hues needed to display HDR colors. In technical speak, 8-bit lacks the wide color gamut essential for HDR.

Then there’s also the “color banding” (inaccurate color representation) issue with 8-bit that a 10-bit or 12-bit reproduction can address.

There can be banding when displaying natural gradients such as clear skies, sunsets, and dawns.

Increasing the bits for each color channel helps alleviate the issue, if not eliminate it.

Dithering also helps address the banding problems on displays with limited color palettes.

Why is banding a concern with HDR? Because HDR offers an increased dynamic range.

And the richer HDR contents require greater bit depth to function optimally, like avoiding banding.

When HDR is paired with an 8-bit panel, it tries to emulate a 10-bit effect, similar to how a 4K panel tries to upscale or make 1080p content look as close to 4K as possible."

 

[Deleted member 197115]

My original reply was to "downconvert" comment, not sure what you were trying to say there.

As far as 8-bit panels for HDR, it works, HDR is primarily contrast and brightness thing, and color as secondary. VESA HDR certification standard do not call for all profiles to be 10-bit, only for Wide Color Gamut support, when most if not all computer content is sRGB.

High-dynamic-range television - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The DisplayHDR standard from VESA is an attempt to make the differences in HDR specifications easier to understand for consumers, with standards mainly used in computer monitors and laptops. VESA defines a set of HDR levels; all of them must support HDR10, but not all are required to support 10-bit displays.[67]

I honestly cannot tell any difference at all running ACC in HDR in 8 or 10 bit mode. I doubt it is actually capable of producing full 10-bit gamut, some titles might, but my understanding that WCG is more for photography and video work, not generated content like games.

But then why stop at 10-bit, there is also Dolby Digital HDR with 12-bit that LG OLED supports, but again Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart for PC looks the same there 8, 10 or 12 bit.

 

[RCHeliguy]

For the G2 owners and a few others, this looks pretty interesting.

"The free plugin doubles the visible resolution, removes chromatic aberrations, and enlarges the eye box – for any OpenXR-compatible content."

As I understand it they have distortion profiles for a few headsets. A few people who have tried it out say that they can see a difference.

Pico, Vive, and HP headsets get picture quality boost with Almalence DLVR OpenXR Layer

almalence.com

 

[Deleted member 197115]

For the G2 owners out there, this looks pretty interesting.

Pico, Vive, and HP headsets get picture quality boost with Almalence DLVR OpenXR Layer

almalence.com

Not for all G2 owners, only Omnicept with eye tracking.

Digital Lens Evaluation OpenXR Plugin

almalence.com

The technology requires eye tracking, and the demo plugin supports the following devices:

• Pico 3 Neo Pro Eye
• HP Reverb G2 Omnicept
• HTC Vive Pro Eye

 

[RCHeliguy]

Interesting. I wonder if it will work without eye tracking, or if it will refuse to operate for headsets without the eye tracking.

 

[gamma123152]

Interesting. I wonder if it will work without eye tracking, or if it will refuse to operate for headsets without the eye tracking.

View attachment 686600

That sounds very interesting, let's hope that they release the Pimax Crystal update soon(once it has eye tracking finally).

 

[RCHeliguy]

Sounds like a work in progress....

 

[RCHeliguy]

 

[gamma123152]

Strange that he had so many issues. I have zero issues with USB devices(wireless keyboard/mouse, no issues)/zero connectivity issues after Pimax 1.12 and upwards and the copper cable... BUT I have removed the small cable extension on the top left, this solves MANY issues. This extension is a design flaw of Pimax.

They surely didn't test the Crystal good enough before releasing it. They used a handfull of beta users(only 3-4 of those beta users were good beta testers, so almost nobody) and thought that it all would be fine. Very stupid.

If he bought an "Apache strap" then it would probably have stayed okay on his head(I don't have one, because I don't have that issue, but many have reported that the Apache strap improves it comfort/stability). Pimax is working on their own comfort mod, they should have included that at their launch too.

They simply released the device WAY to fast. They should have released it:
- With glass lenses instead of plastic
- With the copper cable instead of optical
- Without the cable extension on top AT ALL, way to many issues because of that extension, it simply shouldn't be there. They put it there because of "standalone", something that almost nobody cares about.
- After testing the software/hardware properly with WAY more hard/software configurations, they let the users now be the beta testers, that's not how you launch a product.
- With a better USB hub, the USB hub that they supplied gives MANY issues(not mine, but many have issues with it)
- With a comfort mod included as the lucid(back side wobble fix)/apache strap(stability improvement for many)

That's my conclusion. I'm lucky that I don't have these connectivity/comfort issues at all, so only his positives on the end of the video remain(best headset on the market in terms of visuals by some extend). But I don't understand his positive comment about the controllers/tracking, I'm not a fan of the controller-tracking at all(it's one of my con's).

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Karl Gosling's channel, the bottom of the barrel entertainment?
Did we really drop that low or desperate to find dirt on Crystal to even watch that "thing"?

 

[cnhoff]

Just for reference, my zero issues combo consists of:

- optical cable
- my own cheap (and old) powered USB 3.0 hub
- Quest 2 strap for the back of the head - increases stability
- Apache strap - slightly increased comfort, but I could go without it

For me, the headset was comfortable from the beginning, the add-ons help, but would not be a must.