Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

I thought VR users these days are a quite smart niche.

What are these new fangled thingamabobs ?

Woah!!! Boobies!

 

[RCHeliguy]

It's Barbie time!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Let's not forget

 

[RCHeliguy]

I just read that Pimax put out an email stating something like this, and FWIW I'm all for any progress in terms of improved DFR support.

Eyetracking and Dynamic Foveated Rendering on the software client level, ensuring compatibility with nearly all VR games

Related to this, I've seen the comments below from mbucchia who I tend to defer to for all things DFR related.

Their DFR doesn't work with OpenXR, and it only works with OpenVR D3D11 games (so for example won't work with F1, X-Plane or No Man's Sky. I've also tested it on a few OpenVR games without success (eg:AMS2, Project Cars). Their recipe isn't magic, they do the same exact thing vrperfkit and OpenXR Toolkit does. Some of the numbers in the email are from OpenXR Toolkit, eg MSFS, iRacing, and also QVFR for Pavlov

Msfs is OpenXR so it won't work at all with their DFR
iRacing can use Pimax DFR if ran in OpenVR or use OpenXR Toolkit DFR if run in OpenXR
I expect ACC to work with Pimax DFR but it haven't tried

So some progress, and it even looks like iRacing may support DFR in two modes.

 

[Leynad777]

Do you hold Pimax to this standard for not publishing that their DMAS audio solution has a half second of latency? Or is their moving target approach of shipping an unfinished product a catch all for everything wrong with the headset?

You shouldn't believe everything people claim on the internet. My 8KX with DMAS has a little delay, but it's rather in the 20-30 ms range and can be fixed by just mirroring the main audio-output to the headset in SteamVR. Humans are noticing audio-latency more than visual latency btw. and in audio-production you need to get under 8 ms to play in sync with your instrument-monitor.

And I'm more happy with my 8KX than ever by finally finding, at least so far, optimal settings. I'm running render quality on 1.75 with SteamVR render resolution at 4348 x 5352 pixel per eye (60%, but more doesn't do more) and I'm writing this in VR on my virtual G9 that is wrapped about 200° around me. I certainly would prefer a sharpening-filter that SteamVR doesn't provide (unlike OpenXR which is too buggy), but the clarity is still quite stunning and in AMS2 I get rock-solid 90 fps with those settings even with 20 AI in the rain at around 65% GPU-load (4080, 13600).

The 8KX isn't sold anymore by Pimax, but you get 'as good as new' DMAS-versions for good prices and even it's a pain in the butt to get the best out of it, once it's setup, it's still awesome and reliable with probably the best FOV for a long time ahead.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Pretty cool to see what people manage to do by themselves.

Yes, there is a Quest 2 inside this, but still that's a lot of interesting work.

 

[blekenbleu]

Meta VR prototypes at SIGGRAPH 2023

• 'Butterscotch Varifocal’ up to 56 ppd PDF refractive-diffractive hybrid lens design
  no mention of prototype mass brief video of motor movement
  
  
  "first VR HMD prototype that approaches retinal resolution and
  fully supports human eye accommodation in range and dynamics"
• 'Flamera' Lightfield Passthrough computational camera PDF
  insect eyes:
  

 

[blekenbleu]

“HTML of the metaverse”:​

Apple, Pixar, Adobe, Autodesk, and NVIDIA form Alliance for OpenUSD​

to standardize on Pixar’s Universal Scene Description (USD) 3D file protocol.
In addition to founding members, OpenUSD general members include
Epic Games, Unity, Foundry, Ikea, SideFX, and Cesium.

A Big Money ploy to wrest initiative and mindshare from OpenXR and Khronos Group's Metaverse Standards Forum (which has neither participation fees, NDAs nor IP framework)?
“The Khronos Group warmly welcomes AOUSD to the community of open standard organizations. We look forward to a close cooperation so that Khronos standards, including glTF, can support and synergize with AOUSD’s mission for the good of the industry.” - Neil Trevett, President of The Khronos Group and VP of Developer Ecosystems at NVIDIA

 

[RCHeliguy]

Hmmmm....

VR Flight Sim Guy was just mentioning that his BSB first impressions Video was at 70K views after 2 weeks.

His Crystal first impressions video is 30K views after 3 months.

That seems to be confirming that the BSB isn't going to be a niche headset.

 

[metalnwood]

Have you seen the millions of hits on the apple vision pro?

People like looking at stuff that looks cool but I wouldn't use it as a gauge. I think it will be niche, just as the pimax is niche.

I see one issue is people cant seem to find controllers to use with it unless you already have them then buying index controllers seems to be out of the question. That is a serious problem for something to break out of niche.

 

[Leynad777]

The EU-prices of the BSB are also way too high and just did the math. If buying the headset I would need to spend 2214€ including base stations, controllers, subscription lenses and the audio-strap. I guess most people don't own the adequate PC to run it properly, but at least that's covered in my case. The Quest 3 sounds more like a deal if I would want a new headset. I can return it if I don't like it or sell it later on without needing to find a perfect IPD-match (probably difficult with an IPD of 72 and a big headshape) and I don't have access to an iPhone either.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Linus is going to do a review of the BSB.

I've purchased and received 3 pair of Index controllers pretty recently. No issues there.

Thinking about this logically. The Valve Index has been a very successful headset with very strong sales until very recently. There is now a large installed base of Index owners with lighthouses and Index controllers. They've been waiting for an Index replacement for years and there is pent up demand for something better.

The people who gravitated to the Index tended to care about tracking, many like the Index controllers and they are the perfect market for the BSB.

Given the BSB is a native SteamVR headset that Index owners can just plug in and use and just swap back to there Index for visitors, it makes a lot of sense.

Seems like a recipe for a lot of sales.

I'll borrow these totals that metalnwood recently posted.

About 28% of those below have lighthouses already.

20.03% Index
6.25% Vive
1.43% Vive Pro
0.23% 5K & 8K

 

[gamma123152]

Visor

www.visor.com

4K Micro OLED displays per eye, 100º field of view, same minimalistic form factor as the BSB, "Custom fit to you".

Sounds like a BSB competitor, but it isn't positioned in the market like that, because:

"Visor is not an AR/VR headset that is generalized for gaming, training, or entertainment. Visor is focused on a complementary market segment (professionals) and is specifically optimized for work. In order to expedite speed to market, the Visor won't have an App Store for developers, but may open up an SDK for individual sideloaded applications at a later date."

So unsure if it will work good for gaming.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Hopefully VR headset is better than that godawful web site they put together.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Estimated at about 150grams, MicroOLED and I assume pancake lenses. "The Visor will be custom fit, with the exact IPD to match the owner's eyes and light blockers of the appropriate size."

I'm happy to see announcements like this because I agree with the design emphasis.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Looks like production units are just starting to ship and it looks like they were not done tweaking it.

"Greatly improved optics"

You can see that the Production box is smaller and no longer has PROTOTYPE on it.

Also there was no mention of them starting to ship production units. No fanfare. They just started to arrive.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My take aways. He still prefers the Crystal's display.

He is getting used to the BSB custom interface and now says he can very comfortably use it for many hours.

He didn't like the Quest at 72Hz or the G2 at 60Hz, but really likes the BSB at 75Hz and he is getting a very solid 75Hz with it which is a frame rate that is difficult to reach in MSFS with the Aero or Crystal.

 

[Leynad777]

My take aways. He still prefers the Crystal's display.

He is getting used to the BSB custom interface and now says he can very comfortably use it for many hours.

He didn't like the Quest at 72Hz or the G2 at 60Hz, but really likes the BSB at 75Hz and he is getting a very solid 75Hz with it which is a frame rate that is difficult to reach in MSFS with the Aero or Crystal.

He said, the displays of the Crystal are "far better" and sounds more like an obvious fact than his opinion. IMO a comparison with a Pico 4 or Quest Pro would be interesting at this point, but seems all previewers of the BSB avoid this subject successfully so far and who wants to run just 75 Hz? Major deal breaker if it can't exceed 1920 x 1920 pixels per eye on 90 Hz natively.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Seems that he is liking the BSB more with time. What I'm reading is that he is starting to appreciate how easy the BSB is to use without futzing around.

Below he mentions an experience in the BSB being "breath taking", that he'd be happy with this as his daily driver, that it's super easy, plug n play, and that the motion compensation with the BSB works "REALLY" well and is flawless.

He's said that the BSB with OpenVR motion compensation works the best of any he's tried. He said the BSB works the best (flawless) followed by the Aero followed by the Crystal. The BSB has twice as many lighthouse sensors as the Aero which could be the difference.

This is looking like the polar opposite of the Crystal in every way.

Small, light, plug n play, no futzing.

It will be very interesting to compare the experiences of people who receive BSB's with those who ordered Crystals. The Pimax thread in his discord is littered with people going through some rite of passage when receiving their Crystal. Much gnashing of teeth, many returns, lots of out of the box issues.

I won't be hard for the BSB to have a better release than the cluster F#$@ that was the Crystal release. But after the dust settles the real question will be how the new BSB owners feel about their new headsets.

I can't wait to get mine.

 

[blekenbleu]

won't be hard for the BSB to have a better release than the cluster F#$@ that was the Crystal release.

Company cultures change, but (like people) not always usefully