Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

The BSB design already has a fan; I anticipate design changes to draw air from baffled vents around eyes. That might complicate custom surround manufacture...

I found out that is not the case.

The reason the lenses don't have fog issues is because they get warm from all the heat they absorb. The fans are to cool the hardware on the inside. Basically after the headset is powered up for 10 minutes or so, there is no fog.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Why is he taking the most comfortable made to your face headset and pursuing this??

The DIY community is running wild. Remember that the VRChat community DRAMATICALLY outnumbers the ranks of sim racers/fliers and they are modding the crap out of this already. Since BeyondVR supplied full CAD drawings and 3D printable models, there is a lot of playing going on even before they have started shipping to customers

I've seen hand tracking mods.
A pass through camera mod.
People are even working on adding inside out tracking.
Past the bunny ears there are a pile of aesthetic ideas circulating as well.

Someone said that they wanted a flip hinge for the headset and there it is.

I expect to see piles of ideas thrown at the wall. Some will stick.

 

[metalnwood]

The DIY community is running wild. Remember that the VRChat community DRAMATICALLY outnumbers the ranks of sim racers/fliers and they are modding the crap out of this already. Since BeyondVR supplied full CAD drawings and 3D printable models, there is a lot of playing going on even before they have started shipping to customers

I've seen hand tracking mods.
A pass through camera mod.
People are even working on adding inside out tracking.
Past the bunny ears there are a pile of aesthetic ideas circulating as well.

Someone said that they wanted a flip hinge for the headset and there it is.

I expect to see piles of ideas thrown at the wall. Some will stick.

I understand the mods, adding tracking, hand tracking, passthrough camera.

To somwhat take the saying.... If this was the answer then what was the problem? After bsb removed all the extras to give a small headset the praise was on the fit/comfort and perhaps for some things as you were saying, the inertia.

That contraption seems to negate those benefits the bsb was left with. They also showed how easy it was to lifpt it on your forehead which i have done on the g2, but certainly easier on the bsb by a long way. Why cant they do that? From looking more at some videos it seems that the lenses are going to sit right on your forehead and no doubt smudge them with oil. That is going to be annoying.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Looking at my 3D printed model with interface, there is no way for the lenses rest on you forehead.

With the flipping mechanism, I think he had some video where he removed the interface. At that point all bets are off.

Speculate all you want, but engaging the DIY community is a smart move. Interesting things will come out of this.

 

[cnhoff]

Let's just accept the fact that the BSB is is not without it's flaws, neither is the company or it's information policy.

Thinking of the well kept secret that the display cannot handle full resolution @90hz (wow!, Sleazy!) or the fact that people find the face gasket uncomfortable because of the material or clinging to their faces like an octopus after a while.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The BSB is by no means perfect. I never suggested that it was.

The company on the other hand has been very forthcoming about everything to date. There is no secret about the display. The way it works has been discussed ad nauseum. At 75 it uses the same lossless compression as the others. Due to a bottleneck to the chip that drives the displays, it can't process full 90fps at the typical 3:1 compression. So they added additional compression that fits into the data pipe showing at a lower resolution. The de-compression at the chip before driving the displays at full resolution has been over simplified as uprezzing, but since that is the number you see, people are running with that. So be it. The biggest issue is that this is confusing and the oversimplification is easiest description. If I understand it correctly, the utility that switches between 75 and 90fps enables additional compression before it gets to the native Steam VR which then displays the compressed data size which shows in resolution.

The interface has also been discussed at length. Some people are very comfortable with it. Others are not. Some are talking about creating a thin cover for the interface. BSB itself has talked openly about this. I expect that there will be much experimentation surrounding this.

Complete Conjecture: I'm going to take a wild guess that the dividing thread between how people feel about the interface could be complexion related and have to do with how oily your skin is. That it is an issue for some people and I'm sure a solution will need to be found.

Will has dark hair like I do( or did have) and statistically people with dark hair have more oily skin. He had no issues after 3 hours of use. I do realize that Seb also has dark hair, and he might just happen to have drier skin, or disprove this idea.

I asked Steve (VR Flight Sim Guy) if he considered his skin oily or dry and he said he had dry skin. He has also said that after a while it starts to feel clammy to him.

Obviously this is just a guess, but there appears to be a dividing line because some people have been using the BSB for long periods and talk about washing their interface every week or so and having no comfort issues.

EDIT: I also had someone suggest that Will is in the middle of Winter right now and likely has lower humidity and may let it get cooler in his rig area, meanwhile Steve is in the UK in the middle of the Summer likely with lots of Rain, so potentially higher temperatures and more humidity.

FYI, Steve has said he's good for about an hour before he starts to notice it getting clammy.

 

[cnhoff]

As far as I know the panel being limited was made public by a panel manufacturer leak, not Big Screen. I might be wrong as I am not following that headset much.

 

[metalnwood]

I am following your lead, speculate is all we do now

The company on the other hand has been very forthcoming about everything to date. There is no secret about the display. The way it works has been discussed ad nauseum. At 75 it uses the same lossless compression as the others. Due to a bottleneck to the chip that drives the displays, it can't process full 90fps at the typical 3:1 compression. So they added additional compression that fits into the data pipe showing at a lower resolution. The de-compression at the chip before driving the displays at full resolution has been over simplified as uprezzing, but since that is the number you see, people are running with that. So be it. The biggest issue is that this is confusing and the oversimplification is easiest description. If I understand it correctly, the utility that switches between 75 and 90fps enables additional compression before it gets to the native Steam VR which then displays the compressed data size which shows in resolution.

So where is their statement about it? I would be able to understand what they say and skip the simplification. You are telling me what people are 'running with'.
I would happily follow the link to bsb's description and read for myself.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I am following your lead, speculate is all we do now

So where is their statement about it? I would be able to understand what they say and skip the simplification. You are telling me what people are 'running with'.
I would happily follow the link to bsb's description and read for myself.

It's been discussed at length and repeatedly in their discord server by the president and developers. They have talked about creating an official description of the process for their website, but they also acknowledge that given the complexity it will be easy to misinterpret and be unlikely to help matters.

I've also seen the PDF from the panel manufacturer which also oversimplies this as uprezzing with no additional explanation. I've also seen Brad's explanation based on what he sees in SteamVR.

 

[cnhoff]

Have they started discussing it upfront or as a reaction to the leak?

Feeling like we are trying to bend reality until it fits here...

 

[metalnwood]

It's been discussed at length and repeatedly in their discord server by the president and developers. They have talked about creating an official description of the process for their website, but they also acknowledge that given the complexity it will be easy to misinterpret and be unlikely to help matters.

I've also seen the PDF from the panel manufacturer which also oversimplies this as uprezzing with no additional explanation. I've also seen Brad's explanation based on what he sees in SteamVR.

I am assuming the panel maker states this because it is what they do and bsb have no control over what happens when they feed a signal at that refreshrate/resolution, its all done by the panels processor.

My guess is that it just uses an interpolation algorithm like most and doesnt have some super advanced AI engine because if they were to go to those lengths then they probably just would have had a chip that catered for that res/refresh natively.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Since I can't show you the actual compression/decompression scheme and am only replying based on the descriptions I've read, there is not much else I can say.

The bottom line is that 90Hz uses a lossy compression mechanism, and either I'll find it acceptable, or I won't.

 

[cnhoff]

1.) Big screen tells the people:

Res is 2560x2560
75 Hz check
90 Hz check

2.) Panel manufacturer leaks info that the panel is not supporting 90 Hz at full resolution , thus upscaling from 1900x1900 is applied

3.) Big screen announces they will explain the process

THAT'S the course of events and not Big Screen being open about major design limitations upfront
Giving people stls to print and wow about how small the headset is is good marketing and not a sign of them being honest.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Putting out stl files to print out does let people see how small it is to visualize the scale in person and yes that is good marketing.

They also put out full CAD models that allow you to break it into constituent parts. That is for the DIY community which is also good marketing but also is encouraging this community to grow.

They also gave the BSB out to people who have commented on how 75 vs 90 looks which should be all that matters. Some could see a difference. Some could not. That is what matters.


Do you hold Pimax to this standard for not publishing that their DMAS audio solution has a half second of latency? Or is their moving target approach of shipping an unfinished product a catch all for everything wrong with the headset?

 

[RCHeliguy]

FYI, I had this suggested for VR lenses, but I've been using it on my glasses and reading glasses as well and it holds up. These clothes seem to clean much better and don't smear compared to my other len clothes. They can be washed after they are completely loaded up with grime and reportedly work like new after they are washed. so you probably don't need the larger pack linked to below. They are also supposed to take a long time to load up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098QZXHN8

 

[Deleted member 197115]

but they also acknowledge that given the complexity it will be easy to misinterpret and be unlikely to help matters

Just like Harley Davidson , I thought VR users these days are a quite smart niche.

 

[RCHeliguy]

How did I miss this?

 

[cnhoff]

Do you hold Pimax to this standard for not publishing that their DMAS audio solution has a half second of latency?

Of course I do. I am not promoting Pimax in any way. They are doing almost everything wrong that can be done wrong

I will see whether I can make that headset work for me next week. If not, I will happily return it and wait for something better.

But I am holding BS to the same standard. And that display topic is a MAJOR topic that none of their bosses has just overlooked. That information was held back on purpose, same as other companies do. If I was interested in that headset, it would be a major bummer for me.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Fair enough and I'll let you know what I think of it when it gets here.

Recent emoji I'm seeing.

 

[cnhoff]

Fair enough and I'll let you know what I think of it when it gets here.

Same do I, looking forward to that.