Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

I think you must have misunderstood.

I never had issues with the Index fit wel. Out of the box it's the most comfortable headset i have tried up to date. But in general i don't like the pressure of an HMD to my face.

My mod make the index hang in front of my face, just touching it with no pressure.

One of the first things i thought when i saw will's review was that i would not be comfortable with an HMD that needs to be pressure tight on your face.

I don't care about any light bleed since i always play in a dark room.

Still waiting for the Index 2. With my track record on trying other headsets i an reluctant to a BSB because of the resell value.

My next HMD should be of certain standard and quality that i don't care about newer versions any more. Like my Samsung 49" monitor, there's 3 or 4 newer versions witch all might be better but my current one is more then good enough.

But honestly the index 2 takes way too long and doubt i will ever come

Thanks for the clarification! Wow did I get that wrong!

The BSG should also be very light pressure, but I can't blame you for wanting to wait for the Index 2.

 

[RCHeliguy]

@metalnwood, sorry I forgot to answer your question about this.

This subject has been confusing because many saw OpenXR as the way to bypass some of the WMR latency by using OpenComposite.

The bigscreen is steamvr and openxr native out of the box, so you can open iRacing in either OpenVR or OpenXR and it will work in either natively.

You can also use the OpenXR toolbox, but you cannot use OpenComposite because the compositor is native.

Does that help? When I get one, I'll create screen shots showing how this works.

But the bottom line is that there is an efficiency gain for all titles vs. requiring a non-native compositor like the HTC, Pimax, Varjo, etc.. headsets all have and it requires no software installation per title or configuration.

 

[blekenbleu]

Does that help?

For those of us with less than eidetic memory,
these diagrams for Open Composite vs OpenVr vs OpenXr can help.

 

[metalnwood]

@metalnwood, sorry I forgot to answer your question about this.

This subject has been confusing because many saw OpenXR as the way to bypass some of the WMR latency by using OpenComposite.

The bigscreen is steamvr and openxr native out of the box, so you can open iRacing in either OpenVR or OpenXR and it will work in either natively.

You can also use the OpenXR toolbox, but you cannot use OpenComposite because the compositor is native.

Does that help? When I get one, I'll create screen shots showing how this works.

But the bottom line is that there is an efficiency gain for all titles vs. requiring a non-native compositor like the HTC, Pimax, Varjo, etc.. headsets all have and it requires no software installation per title or configuration.

It didn't really help because I was wondering why bsb is at an advantage. Back in the day many things were openvr and that meant using steamvr - even if you were on WMR.

Those days are gone for any demanding sim. WMR uses its own compositor and can work with the openxr api. I understand the crystal software doesnt require steamvr either.

So I didn't understand why the bsb being 'native out of the box' was any better than the g2 being 'wmr native' out of the box when we can run our sims with openxr on most things now.

My conclusion is that it isn't more efficient unless you have to run openvr software.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Obviously there is still confusion over this.

The G2 has it's own compositor AND ran through WMR. There is no way to get around the extra compositor. The same goes for Pimax and Varjo. Varjo has their own VarjoOpenXR connector, but still requires a separate compositor behind that.

The BSB is naive to both OpenVR and OpenXR and requires no additional compositor.

I believe there may have been one other headset that didn't require its own compositor besides the Index, but this is a chunk more efficient both in OpenVR and OpenXR.

The empirical evidence seems to back this up. VR Flight Sim Guy is getting a solid 75fps with the BSB in MSFS. If you compare that with the Aero and Crystal pre-DFR values it is quite good and if you compare it with the them post DFR it is still very good.

 

[wajdi]

Ok guys
I’m returning it.
I received it today and after updating the firmware I tried to wear it… this is the most uncomfortable headset I ever tried ..,
It’s not discomfort.. it cases me to much pain on my face bones , nasal bone snd zygomatic bones …I have such a big and large face and the Crystal is pushing to much on my face .. after 3-4 min I have to much pain and all that without motion .with motion and wobbling it will hurt more I’m sure .
Another bad thing .. the battery behind makes it very uncomfortable to lay your head on the seat… I have to keep my head forward and this cause neck pain.
I didn’t tried to appreciate the image quality and clarity because it was to much uncomfortable and painful.
I opened already ticket to return it.

 

[cnhoff]

Ok guys
I’m returning it.

Sad to hear that.

I am set to make it work but I am happy that I could order it from a local reseller with proper return policy after all and I cancelled my preorder with Pimax.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Ok guys
I’m returning it.

Sorry to hear about all that!

Going back to that quote I posted a page back where an Index user showed another example of how not all headsets fit all faces even if they work for the vast majority of people.

I know the BSB wasn't high on your list, but because they custom scan your face, you can be sure that it will both fit you perfectly and align your eyes perfectly with the displays. The fact it has a very light and thin strap would also eliminate any issues laying you head back into your seat.

 

[wajdi]

Sorry to hear about all that!

Going back to that quote I posted a page back where an Index user showed another example of how not all headsets fit all faces even if they work for the vast majority of people.

I know the BSB wasn't high on your list, but because they custom scan your face, you can be sure that it will both fit you perfectly and align your eyes perfectly with the displays. The fact it has a very light and thin strap would also eliminate any issues laying you head back into your seat.

BSB is now on my radar…. Now after having this bad experience with the Crystal, I would trade of some clarity and FOV for a Perfect comfort.

 

[RCHeliguy]

BSB is now on my radar…. Now after having this bad experience with the Crystal, I would trade of some clarity and FOV for a Perfect comfort.

It will fit perfectly.
Some love the interface feel and others are less excited by it.
There are some on the BSB discord talking about creating a VR-Cover type material sock for it. As long as it is easily replaceable and washable, it might work.

There is a very strong DIY movement surrounding the BSB already. And as much as the VRChat crowd are not my crowd, they appear to be innovating and may produce things that I would like myself.

 

[blekenbleu]

still confusion

Agreement on confusion is prerequisite.
Consider partitioning confusion into inconsistencies among and within theory, reality and history.
Reality and history are confounded because real systems configure different versions.
History is partitioned, because information has itself evolved, probably unrecoverably.

SteamVR was first introduced for the Oculus Rift headset in 2014
Microsoft launched Windows Mixed Reality (WMR) for third-party headsets in October 2017.
M$ had released Microsoft HoloLens Development Edition in 2016.
WMR implicitly implied AR as well as VR, but 2017 Windows 10 WMR was effectively for VR gaming.
One imagines M$ intended another "embrace and extend" maneuver, by offering Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR, with performance by design significantly poorer than for contemporary WMR MS Store apps, by basically employing both SteamVR and WMR compositors back-to-back.

• Open Composite is IMO a poor name, because it provides OpenVR emulation for OpenXR, not another compositor.
• Valve supports OpenXR, providing an OpenXR runtime for Index.
  In theory, setting Open Composite in Steam for OpenXR could use Index OpenXR runtime...
• My understanding is that OpenXR uses a single compositor, but different runtimes
  for WMR, SteamVR, etc.
• Valve appears committed to supporting both OpenVR for SteamVR apps
  as well as OpenXR for other apps.
  I suppose a key motivator for OpenXR support is Index and follow-on HMD sales.

 

[gamma123152]

Ok guys
I’m returning it.
I received it today and after updating the firmware I tried to wear it… this is the most uncomfortable headset I ever tried ..,
It’s not discomfort.. it cases me to much pain on my face bones , nasal bone snd zygomatic bones …I have such a big and large face and the Crystal is pushing to much on my face .. after 3-4 min I have to much pain and all that without motion .with motion and wobbling it will hurt more I’m sure .
Another bad thing .. the battery behind makes it very uncomfortable to lay your head on the seat… I have to keep my head forward and this cause neck pain.
I didn’t tried to appreciate the image quality and clarity because it was to much uncomfortable and painful.
I opened already ticket to return it.

Did you try the big foam?

It was unusable for me with the small foam(installed on default), most uncomfortable hmd ever indeed, had to take it off after 10 mins because my face hurted. But after installing the big foam it became the most comfortable HMD for me, zero issues, super comfortabele for hours. So night and day difference.

 

[wajdi]

It was unusable for me with the small foam(installed on default), most uncomfortable hmd ever indeed, had to take it off after 10 mins because my face hurted. But after installing the big foam it became the most comfortable HMD for me, zero issues, super comfortabele for hours. So night and day difference.

tried it…. Same thing. I tried every thing for 2 hours .,, I even have a 15mm one and it hurts the same .

 

[gamma123152]

Plus send me the discord invite .. would love to join.

tried it…. Same thing. I tried every thing for 2 hours .,, I even have a 15mm one and it hurts the same .

Ouch. What a disappointment then... everyone that tried my Crystal (I got the back side modded, but that doesn't change much for the front pressure) thought that it was more comfortable than my G2+FoV mod. FYI; I have the knob on the back very loose, so there is close to zero pressure on my forehead. The felcro on top I have directly mounted at the front(so no space left) and ~3cm at the back side.. don't know what else to suggest.

 

[wajdi]

Ouch. What a disappointment then... everyone that tried my Crystal (I got the back side modded, but that doesn't change much for the front pressure) thought that it was more comfortable than my G2+FoV mod. FYI; I have the knob on the back very loose, so there is close to zero pressure on my forehead. The felcro on top I have directly mounted at the front(so no space left) and ~3cm at the back side.. don't know what else to suggest.

I didn’t understand the part of the felcro…. Can you make a photo please?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Agreement on confusion is prerequisite.

mbucchia pointed me to this VR Stack diagram.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Just because I saw it pop up

In this corner weighing in at 127 grams the Bigscreen Beyond!!!!
In the other corner weighing over 1kg the Crystal!!!!!
Now touch gloves and come out fighting!
And Crystal this is your 2nd warning, "No more punching below the belt!"

 

[Deleted member 197115]

What about I am not watching MRTV anymore?

 

[RCHeliguy]

What about I am not watching MRTV anymore?

Nothing changed about that. I haven't watched it.

 

[metalnwood]

mbucchia pointed me to this VR Stack diagram.

View attachment 681417

That is a good illustration, it doesn't have a g2 using two compositors though, it show the holographic api going horizontal across the api stack but is there any information around that this is worth and signifcant performance advatage to say that a high resolution headset will have an advantage? Is this like a 10%, 5%, 1% thing?