Is VR dead?

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Maybe we can get away with a bit lower stereo overlap once the FoV increases, we will see. .

That's not what I said.

We still would like to have as close to the human eye overlap of 100-120 degrees depending on who you believe.

The current ~85 degrees that many headsets have right now seems to work well enough for most people.

What I was saying is that measuring the overlap as a percentage of total FOV is the wrong way to measure that.

It should simply be degrees overlap which is a separate value unrelated to the total FOV.

You could have a headset with an 80 degree FOV with 100% overlap and it would have less overlap than a Crystal or Somnium.
 
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The other day John Carmack tweeted a few things about the BSB. You can cherry pick the positive or negative things he said about the BSB and depending on your feelings could turn his comments into some kind of debate. Carmack absolutely does not hold back, is passionate about VR and has made it plain that he will do his best to destroy bad ideas.

But BSB gave their headset to a guy generally considered the father of modern VR to get his opinion on it. I think that shows some serious balls.

I saw a post of a ChatGPT 4 analysis of his tweets as follows.

"The presented tweets from John Carmack certainly express his high opinion of the Bigscreen Beyond PC VR system. Although he points out some flaws, such as lack of integrated audio, less breathability for fitness activities, and the necessity of a cable and tracking base stations, he also praises its lightweight nature, comfortable and perfect fit, and its high-resolution visuals. This is in line with Carmack's usual speaking style: he's known for his fair and balanced technical analyses. His critique appears thoughtful, detailed, and well-rounded, focusing on both the strengths and weaknesses of the product. At the end, he specifically recommends the Bigscreen Beyond for people considering upgrading their VR system and expresses hope that its design will impact future Meta designs. This suggests he sees value and potential in the product, which can be interpreted as him looking highly of it."
 
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The other day John Carmack tweeted a few things about the BSB. You can cherry pick the positive or negative things he said about the BSB and depending on your feelings could turn his comments into some kind of debate. Carmack absolutely does not hold back, is passionate about VR and has made it plain that he will do his best to destroy bad ideas.

But BSB gave their headset to a guy generally considered the father of modern VR to get his opinion on it. I think that shows some serious balls.

I saw a post of a ChatGPT 4 analysis of his tweets as follows.

"The presented tweets from John Carmack certainly express his high opinion of the Bigscreen Beyond PC VR system. Although he points out some flaws, such as lack of integrated audio, less breathability for fitness activities, and the necessity of a cable and tracking base stations, he also praises its lightweight nature, comfortable and perfect fit, and its high-resolution visuals. This is in line with Carmack's usual speaking style: he's known for his fair and balanced technical analyses. His critique appears thoughtful, detailed, and well-rounded, focusing on both the strengths and weaknesses of the product. At the end, he specifically recommends the Bigscreen Beyond for people considering upgrading their VR system and expresses hope that its design will impact future Meta designs. This suggests he sees value and potential in the product, which can be interpreted as him looking highly of it."
He was not super positive about it as I understand it: https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-john-carmack-big-screen-beyond-review/

"The custom printed facial interface is comfortable, but not breathable, so it isn’t great for fitness activities."

Sebastian from MRTV added to this that the facial interface is very very close to his eyes and that it felt a bit strange for that reason compared to other HMD's. So yes it's very small, but if it's not breathable material then it can be irritating after using it for a long while in an intense VR session/longer race.

"The visuals are a trade off vs Quest Pro. The resolution is clearly higher, but there are more internal reflections in the pancake optics, and the quality falls off more toward the edges. There are parts of the view where screens look fantastic, good enough for actual productivity work, but not across the entire view."

Calling "visuals a trade off" compared to the Quest Pro sounds very negative. Since the Crystal, overall, has better visuals then the Quest Pro(except the outside the sweetspot clarity, the QP seems to be even better regarding this, it has ~95% sweetspot, the Crystal ~70% sweetspot). I've read about many Crystal users that they "upgraded from the Quest Pro" and that the upgrade is big/positive when it comes to visuals. So I'm not sure what he exactly means with that. Maybe it's because of the low nits of the BSB, the QP clearly has more nits and no reflections and a bigger sweetspot.
The internal reflections of the pancake lenses are something that every reviewer until now noticed about the BSB, the BSB also "seems" be be less good outside the sweetspot then the Crystal but this is unsure to what degree this is, the Crystal is also not perfect outside the ~70% sweetspot.

The audio thougts is something that I simply don't share with him, but he's not positive about that either: "I sorely miss integrated audio. Having to mess with headphones severely impacts the minimalist feel of the headset. I know some people have strong opinions, but I still feel Quest made the right decisions around audio."

Same conclusion as everyone: The legend Carmack was amazed by what's possible with such a small/mini HMD(I am also amazed by that personally ! ). But there are clearly compromises. The visuals are simply not "next level" outside night scene's/Bradley scene's(he uses all his hmd's at insanely low nits, lower then everyone), there are serious trade off's at normal usage.

My end conclusion after all that I've read about the BSB is that it's not a great headset for sim racing. But that the BSB is a great headset for things as: VR chat, horror games, beat saber and similar games, everything where the reflections/low nits/low edge clariry is not an issue and where you get away with the trade off's of the BSB.
 
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The other day John Carmack tweeted a few things about the BSB. You can cherry pick the positive or negative things he said about the BSB and depending on your feelings could turn his comments into some kind of debate. Carmack absolutely does not hold back, is passionate about VR and has made it plain that he will do his best to destroy bad ideas.

But BSB gave their headset to a guy generally considered the father of modern VR to get his opinion on it. I think that shows some serious balls.

I saw a post of a ChatGPT 4 analysis of his tweets as follows.

"The presented tweets from John Carmack certainly express his high opinion of the Bigscreen Beyond PC VR system. Although he points out some flaws, such as lack of integrated audio, less breathability for fitness activities, and the necessity of a cable and tracking base stations, he also praises its lightweight nature, comfortable and perfect fit, and its high-resolution visuals. This is in line with Carmack's usual speaking style: he's known for his fair and balanced technical analyses. His critique appears thoughtful, detailed, and well-rounded, focusing on both the strengths and weaknesses of the product. At the end, he specifically recommends the Bigscreen Beyond for people considering upgrading their VR system and expresses hope that its design will impact future Meta designs. This suggests he sees value and potential in the product, which can be interpreted as him looking highly of it."
Why do we need a chatgpt analysis that is as long as his four or five tweets, you may as well have just posted his tweets to let people see what was actually said... I mean chatgpt has its place but sometimes you can just paste what was said.

On a side note, I was watching a conference presentation from Gerald Sussman who was an MIT professor from the MIT AI research group. He showed what one of his previous students asked chatgpt about his own theorem and showed the answer. He showed the three answers describing the theorem and said they were good answers, coherent etc. The only problem was that there was no theorem and the answer was complete bullshit but it was obvioulsy trying to do its best to satisfy the question.
 
I guess I'll let you know in two in a half months, if they are all that, or just something I regret buying.

Until then :)

Thefutureisjpg.jpg
 
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Streaming with the BSB.

View attachment 677523
Great. I also did ~3-4 hours non stop racing with the Crystal. More comfortable than the Reverb G2 for sure. Also no sweat issues, no fogging, no skin irritation, no fatigue :) So quite similar experience in that regard. With the Reverb G2, I would have had a red mark on my forehead, fogging and sweat because of the heat. I never expected comfort to be an upgrade compared to the G2(I even expected issues regarding heat/weight/comfort), but it's an serious upgrade.

I got a mod since yesterday, which reduces the wobbling of the Crystal, from slight/minor wobbling at sim racing(at corners/curbs, it's wasn't a "real issue" even without the mod because even with slight wobbling it never got out of position because of the padding's grip) I got it reduced to close to zero wobbling. With the mod LICHIFIT Head Cushion Quest 2 Strap:
31UelQRn3nL.png
 
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Great. I also did ~3-4 hours non stop racing with the Crystal. More comfortable than the Reverb G2 for sure. Also no sweat issues, no fogging, no skin irritation, no fatigue :) So quite similar experience in that regard. With the Reverb G2, I would have had a red mark on my forehead, fogging and sweat because of the heat. I never expected comfort to be an upgrade compared to the G2(I even expected issues regarding heat/weight/comfort), but it's an serious upgrade.

I got a mod since yesterday, which reduces the wobbling of the Crystal, from slight/minor wobbling at sim racing(at corners/curbs, it's wasn't a "real issue" even without the mod because even with slight wobbling it never got out of position because of the padding's grip) I got it reduced to close to zero wobbling. With the mod LICHIFIT Head Cushion Quest 2 Strap: View attachment 677531
I have the Apache strap of my old G2 Reverb very similar to this one… I’m happy I kept it and didn’t sell it … i will use it with the Crystal once it arrives. In the Pimax discord they say it helps a lot to eliminate almost completely that minimum wobbling of the hearset.
 

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I have the Apache strap of my old G2 Reverb very similar to this one… I’m happy I kept it and didn’t sell it … i will use it with the Crystal once it arrives. In the Pimax discord they say it helps a lot to eliminate almost completely that minimum wobbling of the hearset.
Yes I have that too(G2 version), but it has less effect here then the other mod that I described. The G2 version seems te be a bit small for the crystal. I had better results with adjusting the velcro on top of the Pimax Crystal: the front part of the velcro needs to be directly mounted(so no space left) and the back part around 3-4 cm moved to the middle. By doing that combined with the shown mod: I got a perfect fit (+the big foam! the small one is horrible).

But now that you write about it, I will try the G2 Apache strap once again, I didn't give it that much attention to be honest maybe I can fit it better/differently. But initially I didn't observe much difference with it(but with the G2 the difference was massive!).
 
So it works well, but you are discussing modifications and 3rd party additions to reduce wobble.

No comfort issues, but Pimax is going to produce an improved Crystal in 3rd quarter to provide a more comfortable experience.

1688634052819.png


No fogging but..
1688634195888.png


1688634298783.png



Meanwhile I've been told by a tester that the only way he got his BSB to fog up was to put it on right after a shower, and then he said the fog cleared in about 10 seconds. Like the Aero, the BSB has a cooling fan that blows air across the lenses. Even the VR Flight Sim guy has said he wishes the Crystal had this fan like the Aero has.
 
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Yes I have that too(G2 version), but it has less effect here then the other mod that I described. The G2 version seems te be a bit small for the crystal. I had better results with adjusting the velcro on top of the Pimax Crystal: the front part of the velcro needs to be directly mounted(so no space left) and the back part around 3-4 cm moved to the middle. By doing that combined with the shown mod: I got a perfect fit (+the big foam! the small one is horrible).

But now that you write about it, I will try the G2 Apache strap once again, I didn't give it that much attention to be honest maybe I can fit it better/differently. But initially I didn't observe much difference with it(but with the G2 the difference was massive!).
There is a Crystal version of the Apache strap. Don't know how different it is though.
 
For hardware changes, I can guarantee they will beef up the head strap loops that have been breaking in shipping. That is a no-brainer and is costing them lots of RMA'd headsets.

This seems like another likely hardware change.
1688636981973.png


That would make 2 of 4 changes. As for comfort, I'm not sure what they plan to change.
 
They will probably add comfort straps or weight kits like they have for other headsets.
I was told that they have two cooling fans for the XR2 chip, so maybe redirect a bit of air over the lenses ?


Also notice that this will be a small batch.

Sounds like another round of customer testing before they decide to make the changes going forward.
 
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I doubt they will make bigger changes to the design of the headset and announce them so early after sales have started. That product manager would need to be fired asap.

I think they would have been better off just improving flaws and feeding that into production.

But all just guesswork, based on a single likely rogue post...
 
I doubt they will make bigger changes to the design of the headset and announce them so early after sales have started. That product manager would need to be fired asap.
Pimax did two revisions after the first 8KX with significant improvements to lenses, displays and the headstrap-holder (switch from plastic to metal), but the Crystal is already based on those. I guess it'll shrink it a bit, but probably not this year. If the audio and visual quality is so great, I wouldn't be bothered. Small improvements are always possible once new flaws are discovered and the 500 bucks (600€) price drop of the Quest Pro probably hurt the early adopters more than whatever Pimax is planning.
 
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For hardware changes, I can guarantee they will beef up the head strap loops that have been breaking in shipping. That is a no-brainer and is costing them lots of RMA'd headsets.

This seems like another likely hardware change.
View attachment 677576

That would make 2 of 4 changes. As for comfort, I'm not sure what they plan to change.
It's always great that they improve their designs even further. But I think that marketing wise: they are very stupid to talk about these things on a public Discord. People will question their purchase and wait until these things are implemented. I think that marketing wise Pimax is literally THE school example on how NOT to do marketing, they do practically everything wrong regarding this subject. This leads to a lot of confusion at their (potential) customers. I think that many people don't even buy their products because of their insane marketing: advertising false FoV numbers, stating wrong release dates hundreds of times, releasing products in a terrible state as I received (Poly lenses and a wrong cable, that's what I received initially), comparing their own products in a childish way to the products of their competitors and posting it on their own website and now announcing an changed/improved version of their product in the most unclear that's possible on discord etc.etc. in my opinion they should fire everyone that's involved in their marketing department.

But their product, the Pimax Crystal is absolutely amazing, I'm very happy with my purchase and I got great support from Pimax employees. But the Pimax experience has been an unbelievable customer journey, its almost undescribable how strange their company operates.

I can understand that not every customer has the same patience and/or technical knowledge as me when they experience the Pimax Experience and that many of those give up after a hour trying and that they send the product back, as simple as that(even SadBradley wasn't able to fit the product properly on his head while testing it). Pimax could really be a much bigger and stronger company if they invested more in a proper marketing/sales and after sales team. "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys" and I think that's exactly what Pimax did at their marketing department.
 
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Isn't for me with it's even lower FOV than the Pico 4, which is tiny compare to the 8KX on small, and I like to peak out of my headsets at the bottom to find stuff around me and for better air-flow with my wind-sim. Also disappointing you can't adjust the IPD yourself even if it's just for selling it one time. And how can they charge 1360 € compare to 999 $? They rip off EU-costumers. But the form-factor is hopefully the role-model for upcoming headsets.
 
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Isn't for me with it's even lower FOV than the Pico 4, which is tiny compare to the 8KX on small, and I like to peak out of my headsets at the bottom to find stuff around me and for better air-flow with my wind-sim. Also disappointing you can't adjust the IPD yourself even if it's just for selling it one time. And how can they charge 1360 € compare to 999 $? They rip off EU-costumers. But the form-factor is hopefully the role-model for upcoming headsets.
I thought that the FoV was supposed to be around the same as the Pimax Crystal, but now I understand from Sebastian that it's seriously less. Yes for sim racing that's not enough in 2023..
 

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