Is VR dead?

[gamma123152]

Pimax should ship my Crystal tomorrow so o should receive it in 7 days however I was speaking to a guy from my PT motion WhatsApp group and has already the Crystal. He said that the tracking on tracks with banking like Daytona in horrible….. while it’s good in normal circuits.

I actually did an online oval race in Daytona(I won ) in AMS2, but I had zero issues with the banking/it was simply perfect regarding the tracking.

BUT I don't have a motion platform, I only have a buttkicker installed on my chair.

I hope that they hurry up with the lighthouse faceplate, I actually want to get my Index controllers working and I expect that the "floor level issue" that I have for anything outside sim racing is solved too with the lighthouse tracking.

Great that you receive your Crystal soon. I understood that you get the copper cable and the glass lenses and the usb powered hub now. So all the issues that I had are solved, so your experience is probably quite good out of the box IF you install Pimax Play 1.13 (1.11 gives massive stutters) + PimaxXR 0.3.9.

 

[gamma123152]

Not Somnium, Valve. I was just using the Somnium as a starting point in the weight/size discussion. Valve should have a microOLED pancake solution and it should be relatively compact very high resolution and have a pile of features.

But it is still unobtanium.

The Somnium will have the best FOV for a modern headset. I can't speak to the image quality. It uses similar tech to the Crystal, so I wouldn't expect it to be significantly better/worse.

Pancake + microOLED has until now proven that the nits are way to low. The BSB has less nits then the Reverb G2 I understood from their most recent prototype. Alarming imo. So I don't know how this issue is going to be solved by Valve? Valve will probably do everything that's in their power to create a perfect image, I expect that it's pretty good (for sure) but that it still lacks nits. And the amount if nits is for me one of the most important factors for having a great experience in VR, especially in sim racing. We'll see what the future brings.

 

[RCHeliguy]

With regard to nits, I've had multiple people who have experienced a pretty wide variety of headsets tell me that when you have a complete seal and zero light leakage that your eyes will adjust.

I understand your comment, but I also understand what others have told me.

Obviously my pre-ordering suggests that I believe the people telling me about this have some credibility.

However I can see this being an issue if you are in a bright room and take your headset on and off a lot. Since I'm in a basement room with dimmable theater lighting, it's possible that I will drop my light levels in there so there is less adapting to do when I put the headset on.

That said, I won't know until I see for myself.

BTW I am glad that the BSB has a focal distance of about 1m because in lower light with your eyes dilated your depth of field drops.

 

[gamma123152]

BTW I am glad that the BSB has a focal distance of about 1m because in lower light with your eyes dilated your depth of field drops.

That's good news, the poly lenses with the super short focal distance of the Crystal were not usable for me.

Pre-ordering the BSB is quite a risk you take, simply because you're not able to resell or return it. This because of the fixed IPD. I was already afraid to pre-order the Pimax Crystal in China (I bought it at a reseller for that reason), but pre-ordering the BSB is risk on a other scale.. new company, fixed IPD. Anyway I hope that you like it of course and that it delivers/that it's worth the upgrade from the Aero.

 

[metalnwood]

This nits issue will obviously be a personal thing but in the end it will be something that we need for the best experience.
I remember when I got my current tv and a scene came on in hdr and i was squinting from the light coming through a window or something in the movie. My other tv's had never given me an effect like that before and you realise how real it is. It happens all the time in real life and it took me by surprise that my eyes reacted in the same way to a scene that was on the tv as it would in real life. Thats a differen't feeling than looking at a picture so it is more than just the image - it's how your body physically reacts to it.

That is obviously why meta was investing a lot in to research for displays that can give you this physical reaction to a realistic scene.

It's probably not the most important thing to a lot of people but i also dont think i want something that is less bright than the g2 having tried others and noticing it feeling duller.

Of course for me i use vr for racing which means daylight scenes the vast majority of the time, not dark games.

 

[cnhoff]

That's good news, the poly lenses with the super short focal distance of the Crystal were not usable for me.

Pre-ordering the BSB is quite a risk you take, simply because you're not able to resell or return it. This because of the fixed IPD. I was already afraid to pre-order the Pimax Crystal in China (I bought it at a reseller for that reason), but pre-ordering the BSB is risk on a other scale.. new company, fixed IPD. Anyway I hope that you like it of course and that it delivers/that it's worth the upgrade from the Aero.

A guy with presbyopic vision posted on VR Flight Sim Guy's Discord that he tried his PC glasses optimized for a focal distance of 85cm with the Crystal with glass lenses and had worse results than with his far-sight prescription glasses with which the image was perfectly sharp. He says he thinks the focal distance is definitely more than 1m, he assumes 2m. So it should not be different than with almost any other headset out there.

 

[metalnwood]

A guy with presbyopic vision posted on VR Flight Sim Guy's Discord that he tried his PC glasses optimized for a focal distance of 85cm with the Crystal with glass lenses and had worse results than with his far-sight prescription glasses with which the image was perfectly sharp. He says he thinks the focal distance is definitely more than 1m, he assumes 2m. So it should not be different than with almost any other headset out there.

A guy that has a specific diopter baked in to his prescription glasses can't be an example for anything. They are obviously for reading at monitor distance, he can't drive with them, watch tv with them or do many things so no surprise that they are not ideal in all vr headsets.
edit - i must have not read your post well, hes not complaining just adding some information

 

[cnhoff]

A guy that has a specific diopter baked in to his prescription glasses can't be an example for anything. They are obviously for reading at monitor distance, he can't drive with them, watch tv with them or do many things so no surprise that they are not ideal in all vr headsets.
edit - i must have not read your post well, hes not complaining just adding some information

That guy simply wanted to try whether the focal distance of the Crystal is considerably shorter than 1m. If so, his PC glasses would have given him better vision (ideal clarity if the focal distance was indeed 85cm) than the infinity far sight glasses.

Instead he confirmed you can basically treat the focal distance of the Crystal with glass lenses as "infinity" like on most other headsets.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Wow! and so sad. I didn't realize it was only 400 grams at 210FOV and smaller than an Index.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm happy to support Bigscreen. The company is super open about everything. Their people are friendly. I've had every last question answered to my satisfaction and quickly. I don't consider it much of a risk at all. I think it will be the most dramatic jump in my VR experience compared to everything to date.

All the pieces make complete sense to me and I very much like their design. It is elegant and clean.

They even shared 3D printable models and CAD files and published their own tear down video. I'm also talking with a number of people who are living with it right now in its final form and they've shared a lot of information and Bigscreen supports this.

The Aero and Crystal are nearly identical from a hardware display and form factor standpoint. compared to the BSB which is on a completely different planet. I'm a LOT more excited about getting my BSB than I was about getting the Aero.

I expect it will track even better than the Aero considering it has 22 sensors instead of the 10 on the Aero. FYI, the Index had 26.

There are a lot of reasons that it should give me a better experience, and can't wait to try it out for myself.

But you have a solid 2.5 months to try to convince me I'm making a mistake

You won't, but you can try

 

[metalnwood]

There are a lot of reasons that it should give me a better experience, and can't wait to try it out for myself.

But you have a solid 2.5 months to try to convince me I'm making a mistake

You won't, but you can try

No one is trying to change your decision - it seems that this is what you are doing to anyone thinking about the pimax and they may have the same conviction on their purchase as you do.

 

[RCHeliguy]

No one is trying to change your decision - it seems that this is what you are doing to anyone thinking about the pimax and they may have the same conviction on their purchase as you do.

People can buy what they want and I'm sure many will be happy with a Crystal. That doesn't change my very poor opinion of their company or what I think of their design and engineering work.

 

[metalnwood]

People can buy what they want and I'm sure many will be happy with a Crystal. That doesn't change my very poor opinion of their company or what I think of their design and engineering work.

I agree and I am not looking to get the pimax, I am put off by some of the issues as well.

I have a friend that was going to get the crystal but ended up with the bsb. He lives about 5 minutes away and also has motion so I will get to have a good go with it as much as it will fit me.

Still, given all that I am not bashing what i dont want and have no experience with and at the same time talking up what i do want but also having no experience with.

It wasn't too long ago you said you would never watch mrtv because of his obvious bias and hyping what he likes.

 

[RCHeliguy]

It wasn't too long ago you said you would never watch mrtv because of his obvious bias and hyping what he likes.

Not exactly. He is in constant hype mode about almost everything. I can't take him seriously.

He just spends way too much time in OMG mode. It's more about the constant hype than any biases.

It's like that line from the Incredibles. If everyone is super than no one is.

 

[gamma123152]

I'm happy to support Bigscreen. The company is super open about everything. Their people are friendly. I've had every last question answered to my satisfaction and quickly. I don't consider it much of a risk at all. I think it will be the most dramatic jump in my VR experience compared to everything to date.

All the pieces make complete sense to me and I very much like their design. It is elegant and clean.

They even shared 3D printable models and CAD files and published their own tear down video. I'm also talking with a number of people who are living with it right now in its final form and they've shared a lot of information and Bigscreen supports this.

The Aero and Crystal are nearly identical from a hardware display and form factor standpoint. compared to the BSB which is on a completely different planet. I'm a LOT more excited about getting my BSB than I was about getting the Aero.

I expect it will track even better than the Aero considering it has 22 sensors instead of the 10 on the Aero. FYI, the Index had 26.

There are a lot of reasons that it should give me a better experience, and can't wait to try it out for myself.

But you have a solid 2.5 months to try to convince me I'm making a mistake

You won't, but you can try

I'm not saying that taking a big risk is a mistake. It's just something that I wouldn't gamble on: a non returnable/refundable headset from an company that never made an headset before and also a headset that you cannot resell used, if a new headset arrives.

I always want to be able to do that, I'm going to sell me Reverb G2 now for example, I always sell my old hardware. If the Crystal had a fixed IPD I wouldn't have bought it either(and also because friends cannot use it) because some day I want to sell my Crystal too (if it's still working..)

I had zero issues with the tracking of the Aero btw, I expect close to zero difference regarding tracking it was super smooth.

"There are a lot of reasons that it should give me a better experience, and can't wait to try it out for myself."

I would also think that I would prefer the BSB over the Aero, even with the lower nits.

And regarding the support of Pimax: Believe it or not, Pimax gave me great support. They answered all my questions too, they added a feature in their software even on my request/advice, they cooperate good with Matthieu Bucchianeri and gave him a free hmd so that he could improve the software and he did quickly. They fixed almost all the launch issues FAST(yes they shouldn't have launched it with poly lenses and instable software, true). And when I requested it, they send me a new extra copper cable for free with express shipping which solved my issue(even while I bought the Crystal at a retailer). When you believe all the stories, then Pimax is a horrible company when it comes to support, a large part of it is probably true(also the fact that they lie about the FoV alone is ashaming). But my experience has been great until now.

I still remember how insanely slow Varjo reacted to: improving their warping/distortion issue and their chromatic aberration issue/color shift issues(still not solved, someone had to come up with their own fix which only works in OpenXR toolkit) and how they simply IGNORED all the comments about the motion blur issue and then the investigated it after ~2 months, then they simply did not do anything about it and did not reply to questions about it. Also the insane amount of Aero's that got shipped with dead pixels was a huge issue, they simply did zero quality control on that(someone got 4 units with dead pixels in a row). Varjo's support has been the worst to me for all those reasons, really terrible. This while Varjo got a great reputation, probably because it's from Finland and probably because their headset is simply build to last. But software and support wise, it was worse to me then Pimax was until now.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Pimax sold a bunch of people 8KX's last year based on the idea they would be able to trade them and get 100% of their purchase price towards a 12KX "coming soon". They never extended that offer for Crystals and there is no telling when the 12KX will be more than a glimmer in someone's eye.

They have just seriously pissed all over their customer base repeatedly but I am honestly glad that you received support you are happy with from them. I have been watching closely. It seemed like they weren't sure what to do at first, but then settled on doing better than they have historically.

But good enough, I'll try to restrain myself....

After letting my rig collect dust for well over a month, I'm in software update hell. Probably 100Gb of updates so far. Hopefully I'll be able to race something soon. Windows, Sim Commander, D-Box, various titles, only 16Gb for iRacing. Getting closer....

As far as the Aero goes even though the company is good, I didn't pull the trigger until after the 4090 dropped and they're were a number of significant software updates from multiple sources very shortly after I got mine.

My take on the BSB is that the experience itself will change much more than anything having to do with just the displays. If it were just another regular headset with the same displays I wouldn't have considered them.

 

[gamma123152]

Pimax sold a bunch of people 8KX's to people last year based on the idea they would be able to trade them and get 100% of their purchase price towards a 12KX "coming soon". They never extended that offer for Crystals and there is no real telling when the 12KX will be more than a glimmer in someone's eye.

But good enough, I'll try to restrain myself....

After letting my rig collect dust for well over a month, I'm in software update hell. Probably 100Gb of updates so far. Hopefully I'll be able to race something soon. Windows, Sim Commander, D-Box, various titles, only 16Gb for iRacing. Getting closer....

They were clear from the start that the offer doesn't apply on the Crystal. They will make a bigger profit margin on the 12K compared to the Crystal, for that reason they let the discount apply on the 12K and not on the Crystal. Everyone that bought a 8Kx with the discount in mind knew that it would take Pimax a long time to develop and release the 12K. So I'm not sure what you exactly mean?

 

[RCHeliguy]

They were clear from the start that the offer doesn't apply on the Crystal. They will make a bigger profit margin on the 12K compared to the Crystal, for that reason they let the discount apply on the 12K and not on the Crystal. Everyone that bought a 8Kx with the discount in mind knew that it would take Pimax a long time to develop and release the 12K. So I'm not sure what you exactly mean?

Everyone thought that? Do you remember when they said the 12KX would be coming when they offered that "deal" ?

 

[gamma123152]

Everyone thought that? Do you remember when they said the 12KX would be coming when they offered that "deal" ?

Do you really pin Pimax down on a approximately release date on a product that was still in an early stage of development? I expected that this would happen, any product development on this level takes longer then expected (especially a VR product, the BSB is also developed for a long long time).

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think I'll try harder, like I said I would, and not continue this debate.

I've counted my 10 paces, holstered my pistol, and am ready to shake hands

Enjoy your Crystal and I'll look forward to receiving my BSB.