Is VR dead?

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Big day! @gamma123152
I really hope your experience is a good one!

I'm continuing to see a barrage of complaints. A number of people are still complaining about getting plastic lenses and are complaining about the distortion profile. Pimax has now officially said that those who received plastic lenses will get glass lenses in July, so this is no longer just speculation by a few.

Others are spending hours with support to get their units to work.

I have no idea what the percentages are, but I hope you get the glass lenses and a unit that is recognized by your computer out of the box with out any extra support.
 
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One person's synopsis of the current state of Crystal's being delivered.

To sum it up:
  1. Glass or plastic lenses lottery
  2. Fiber optic cable lottery
  3. Packaging damage lottery
  4. Device detected / not detected lottery
  5. Batteries and cable requiring superhuman force to plug/unplug
Early adopters need to be prepared to deal with teething pains and typical Pimax quality control.

There are numerous software issues as well and the fact that while they "claimed" they had the eye tracking working and would have the auto IPD adjustment completed in May, neither of these features are currently working with shipped units. So continued feature back sliding, but they are shipping the product anyway.
You seems to have quite an emotional problem that a headset is better than your Aero. I've read so many complaints about the Aero, often two, three or more replacements necessary, but I really don't give a :poop:
 
You seems to have quite an emotional problem that a headset is better than your Aero. I've read so many complaints about the Aero, often two, three or more replacements necessary, but I really don't give a :poop:
Is that what you get from my posts?

I was very up front that I purchased the Aero because I was impatient and unwilling to wait to have higher resolution until something I really wanted was released. It works well enough that I will continue to use it until the next "Index" like headset comes along that I can enjoy for a long time. I've never actually said that I recommend buying one. I even have a video where I specifically said I can't recommend buying one.

The Crystal clearly has better color, better blacks and better vertical FOV than the Aero.

My main beef is with Pimax is how they operate as a company, their poor customer support after the sale, their shoddy quality control etc.. etc.. etc.. They produced cheesy videos explaining to the world how everything there had changed.

You are right that I shouldn't care, but the way they operate offends me to my core. I consider them sleeze balls and maybe that causes me to go a bit out of my way when I shouldn't care.
 
Is that what you get from my posts?

I was very up front that I purchased the Aero because I was impatient and unwilling to wait to have higher resolution until something I really wanted was released. It works well enough that I will continue to use it until the next "Index" like headset comes along that I can enjoy for a long time. I've never actually said that I recommend buying one. I even have a video where I specifically said I can't recommend buying one.

The Crystal clearly has better color, better blacks and better vertical FOV than the Aero.

My main beef is with Pimax is how they operate as a company, their poor customer support after the sale, their shoddy quality control etc.. etc.. etc.. They produced cheesy videos explaining to the world how everything there had changed.

You are right that I shouldn't care, but the way they operate offends me to my core. I consider them sleeze balls and maybe that causes me to go a bit out of my way when I shouldn't care.
The Pimax customer-support seems very good, based on my own experience as well as many posts I've read.
 
The Pimax customer-support seems very good, based on my own experience as well as many posts I've read.
That doesn't even remotely match what I'm seeing. The users are a hornet's nest right now. It also doesn't match many many conversations I've had with Pimax customers who will never again deal with that company.

For the record, I'm hoping for Valve to release the next Index. I'm looking forward to seeing how the BSB looks and the Somnium VR1 and anything else that looks promising. If any of these companies crap the bed and screw people over than I will relegate them to the same status that I put Pimax in.
 
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I think we are seeing 3 distinct generations of VR hardware forming

Gen 1
Fresnel + LED ( old tech )

Gen 2
Aspheric + micro LED ( current tech )
  • Aero Oct 2021
  • Crystal June 2023 - local dimming
  • Somnium ~ end 2023 - local dimming
<--------- transitioning from Gen 2 to Gen 3
  • Quest Pro - pancake + micro LED Oct 2022 - local dimming
  • Quest 3 - pancake + micro LED Sept 2023 ( 40% smaller than Quest 2 )
Gen 3 - smaller, lighter, deepest blacks, best color
Pancake + micro OLED. ( coming soon )
  • Big Screen Beyond ~ Oct 2023 ( tiny by size and weight )
  • next Index 2024 ?

In the near term, it looks like the Quest 3 will be the only modern affordable package that works well without a 4090.

By the end of the year the Somnium VR1 will probably be the last released headset of the current generation with specs that place it ahead of both the Aero and Crystal.

The BSB will be the very first of the 3rd Gen released and is both compelling and a compromise that will have deal breakers for many.

I'm betting that 2024 will be the year of microOLED + pancake lenses.

I'm hoping the next Index will be the first Gen 3 that is a good all around headset without many compromises.
 
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5,000+ nits of brightness from a micro OLED display.
I was just told that pancake lenses only allow about 1/7 th of the light through.
So that would still be over 700 nits at your eyeball.

Note: I'm not an expert on optics and am just repeating what I'm reading from a conversation. Still figuring this out. There may be an additional 50% loss because the light off the display may not already polarized. So possibly 350 nits at the eyeball, but some are saying these displays create a polarized light source to begin with so it's looking like 350-700+ nits.

1685709864514.png
 
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Nothing's changed in this thread. A bunch of people discussing VR, and then there's RCHeliguy who has an obsession with trying to always post negative things about Pimax. Lol.

You seems to have quite an emotional problem that a headset is better than your Aero. I've read so many complaints about the Aero, often two, three or more replacements necessary, but I really don't give a :poop:
Don't even bother. He'll try to defend his position at all costs then, if you do enough to finally, indisputably convince him he's wrong, he'll just quit responding and "flee the scene" (or rather, flee the discussion/debate/convo). He'll never recognize the other's point of view, where they're correct and where he may have been wrong, or say something like "you know what, actually I think you're correct after all" or anything like that. As soon as he can't defend his position anymore and is defeated, he just disappears. No recognition of being wrong or corrected or of learning a new viewpoint from someone else, no humbleness,.
 
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Dead... nah, but I see it as still in it's pre fetal stages of development, Now, give me a 'Star trek' Holo suite or 'Red Dwarf' hard light holograms and, yeah, and I can see myself raiding my piggy bank.
 
People who have seen me post over the years have seen me both admit I was wrong, or that someone else was right numerous times. But ignore those posts if it helps your narrative.

I've also acknowledged countless times that opinions change over time and the only way your opinion could stay etched in stone would be if you stopped learning and gaining new experiences.
 
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I think we can all agree that VR has been a money pit and chasing the dragon since it came out. We have always wanted more than we have and each new generation of technology required more expensive and powerful CPU's and GPU's and VR headsets.

In the beginning we hoped PC VR would grow like crazy and increased production would help drop prices making it something for everyone. Unfortunately that didn't happen. Stand alone VR became the largest growing segment and PC VR became more of an enthusiast demographic.

In terms of Aero vs Crystal, they are already dinosaurs. They are both going to be eclipsed by smaller lighter headsets with much more FOV and deeper blacks and that is something to get excited about.

Meta's Quest Pro and 3 are a half steps both being pancake lenses. Apple's new headset is micro OLED and pancake and of course the new BSB is micro OLED and pancake. This is the future direction of VR. Granted the BSB is a compromise headset in many ways, but it is ground breaking and the first of a new generation.

I should wait, but I may get impatient again and get a BSB just to see what this brave new frontier feels like. I doubt I would use this headset for much more than 6-9 months, but I think the experience would feel much different in a good way. I'll wait to see how users feel about it after it is released before making a decision.
 
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I now know people who have pre-ordered the BSB and who are sim racers so I should hopefully find out how well they work in that capacity before I decide to jump or not.
 
I now know people who have pre-ordered the BSB and who are sim racers so I should hopefully find out how well they work in that capacity before I decide to jump or not.
The Beyond is the upcoming hmd I'm most obsessed with, not just he size but also really want something wiht a minimalist strap. I have headrests in my cockpits and my newest one I'm working on is for F1 and sailplane flying with the seat from a PlayseatF1 rig and really need something that doesn't have a bunch of **** back there. Plus for flying gliders you really keep your head on a swivel so you're not only using the headrest to rest your head, it is constantly rolling around on it. Just sitting looking straight ahead feels awful in it with my Index let alone actually moving my head lol.

I'm not gonna preorder but it already had my full attention even before the fov bump and on paper I'm running out of reasons to hate. It's so ironic too, cause I was really dismissive of it initially based on how much Bigscreen the app annoys me since after all this time and all the stupid things they've added to it they have yet to anchor playback audio to the god damn screen. As a home theater owner/enthusiast it makes me want to punch a kitten trying to watch anything that way.. It's so stupid and shortsighted not to pick that low hanging fruit that makes all the difference between feeling like you are actually in a home theater vs watching a movie on an airplane with headphones. It's so dumb that I couldn't imagine anyone at the company would have the wherewithal to make a good hmd with all the nuance that goes into this tech but here we are
 
BSB is obsolete for me.

Anything under 150 degrees hFOV is not "VR". It's just staring into a monitor very close to your face.

If a headset ever gets released which is some sort of incredible deal and with some sort of God-like, extraordinary combination of features and technology, then maybe I'd consider 140, absolute, absolute lowest, 130.

VR is about having your body and mind transported into a videogame, it's not about visually "spying" or "peeping" into a videogame's world through a keyhole or swimming goggles.

Of course, if the only headsets available in someone's price range are all narrow hFOV then go for it. That's completely understandable and the only exception in my personal opinion.

P.S. I might be sounding elitist or arrogant or whatever but I'm just being honest. It's like when looking at normal monitors/TVs, you can have 8K res, 5000 nits brightness, 90" screen, OLED perfect per-pixel local dimming & blacks, dynamic tone-mapping HDR, etc. You can have all that but, if it's not 3D / stereo vision, then you're still just basically looking at a moving picture on a piece of paper. Apply that same analogy to the VR world but, instead of 3D/stereo vision, it's hFOV.
 
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The Beyond is the upcoming hmd I'm most obsessed with, not just he size but also really want something wiht a minimalist strap. I have headrests in my cockpits and my newest one I'm working on is for F1 and sailplane flying with the seat from a PlayseatF1 rig and really need something that doesn't have a bunch of **** back there. Plus for flying gliders you really keep your head on a swivel so you're not only using the headrest to rest your head, it is constantly rolling around on it. Just sitting looking straight ahead feels awful in it with my Index let alone actually moving my head lol.

I'm not gonna preorder but it already had my full attention even before the fov bump and on paper I'm running out of reasons to hate. It's so ironic too, cause I was really dismissive of it initially based on how much Bigscreen the app annoys me since after all this time and all the stupid things they've added to it they have yet to anchor playback audio to the god damn screen. As a home theater owner/enthusiast it makes me want to punch a kitten trying to watch anything that way.. It's so stupid and shortsighted not to pick that low hanging fruit that makes all the difference between feeling like you are actually in a home theater vs watching a movie on an airplane with headphones. It's so dumb that I couldn't imagine anyone at the company would have the wherewithal to make a good hmd with all the nuance that goes into this tech but here we are

They are the first to release a completely next generation headset. Every reviewer who has tried the BSB out has had a serious WOW reaction.

I think Virtual Reality Oasis put it best.

“This is what I imagined VR would look like in, say, five years from now. But it's in my hands, here today.”

And it looks like microOLED pancakes are going to be the real deal for ultra wide FOV. They have real 140 and 240 degree FOV demo hardware out now that's already sorted. This is with ZERO Chromatic Aberration, no distortion issues and dark blacks and vibrant colors. They don't need to work on getting lenses to work with them, or figure out distortion profiles, they are working now.

So while the BSB is not the end all be all. It is ushering in headsets that will be the end all be all headsets we do really want. It is a taste of what's coming. As I said, if I get one I don't expect to use it for more than 6-9 months.

But importantly, it won't be like putting on a helmet, and for those of us who like room scale games, it will be a great experience. Even VR Flight Sim Guy has said that he would hate to play any room scale game with the Crystal because of it's weight and size.

And while the Aero is very comfortable, even at it's weight in room scale games it can be distracting. It's enough weight when whipping your head around, that I'm sure the BSB will be night and day better experience.

So like I said, I consider aspheric lenses a dead end at this point and remembering that sim racers make up a small percentage of all VR users, having a light weight small headset that is extremely comfortable in room scale games means that large heavier headsets are all dead at this point. There simply is not enough market for them to exist.
 
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For those that care, this is what the Crystal is shipping with for FOV.

1685870549473.png


I'll leave the recent comment by a VR headset reviewer as a thumbnail.
 

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