Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

It's interesting that they have worked with the XTAL people on this project. I have no expectations, but it would be great if it turns out to be something reasonable.

 

[Spinelli]

It's interesting that they have worked with the XTAL people on this project. I have no expectations, but it would be great if it turns out to be something reasonable.

Looks like a Pimax Crystal and Varjo Aero competitor, ie. high PPI but small FOV (120 degrees h.FOV is bad). That's definitely a no for me.

I just tried my Pimax on "small" FOV mode which is 120 degrees horizontal and it's so bad - black areas all around yours eyes, like you're looking through binoculars or a key-hole. It makes VR feel like a gimmicky toy to wow your friends for an hour. How do people play and enjoy at 120 degrees h.FOV let alone 110, 100, or even in the 90s on some headsets? I know stereoscopic gaming is incredible but, at that point, I think triple-screens are a much better option (especially if you can get Nvidia 3D Vision going with them but most ppl won't go that route).

I'm not trying to be elitist, I honestly don't know how people do it. Maybe if you're coming from a single screen...and especially a single screen with a 1:1 FOV which would mean terrible peripheral vision then I guess I can understand tolerating VR with a bad h.FOV (anything under 130 or 140 horizontal). However, for triple-screen users or users considering triple-screens, I just don't know how they can pick a bad h.FOV headset and enjoy it over triples.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Looks like a Pimax Crystal and Varjo Aero competitor, ie. high PPI but small FOV (120 degrees h.FOV is bad). That's definitely a no for me.

I just tried my Pimax on "small" FOV mode which is 120 degrees horizontal and it's so bad - black areas all around yours eyes, like you're looking through binoculars or a key-hole. It makes VR feel like a gimmicky toy to wow your friends for an hour. How do people play and enjoy at 120 degrees h.FOV let alone 110, 100, or even in the 90s on some headsets? I know stereoscopic gaming is incredible but, at that point, I think triple-screens are a much better option (especially if you can get Nvidia 3D Vision going with them but most ppl won't go that route).

I'm not trying to be elitist, I honestly don't know how people do it. Maybe if you're coming from a single screen...and especially a single screen with a 1:1 FOV which would mean terrible peripheral vision then I guess I can understand tolerating VR with a bad h.FOV (anything under 130 or 140 horizontal). However, for triple-screen users or users considering triple-screens, I just don't know how they can pick a bad h.FOV headset and enjoy it over triples.

May be because of that black area, human vison is limited to 120 degrees horizontal. Plus in VR you can move your head to have unlimited FOV.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm very comfortable with the Index's FOV, but would definitely love more I considered the G2 to be unacceptable, mostly because of the off center out of focus area. It killed immersion for me. Whether that is part of the loss of the binocular view that I felt with it, I'm not sure.

I've heard a lot of complaints from the 8KX crowd about comfort and even more about Pimax themselves and their poor support. I've read many posts about the modifications people feel they had to make to get that headset to be acceptable. So when MRTV says about the Crystal's comfort that Pimax owners know what to expect, I take that as a warning. Pimax is also not known for having decent headphones with many complaints about even their premium upgraded headphones. Then there are the software issues on top of that.

The bottom line is that Pimax has a LOT to prove before I would remotely consider sending them my money. I simply don't trust the company. As others have said about Valve and other reputable companies, if Valve announced a new headset I would pre-order the second they made that option available and not have any remote 2nd thoughts about it.

 

[Spinelli]

May be because of that black area, human vison is limited to 120 degrees horizontal. Plus in VR you can move your head to have unlimited FOV.
View attachment 627355

?? Human horizontal FOV is around 200 degrees. This is common knowledge. Plus, with the Pimax set to "large" FOV (about 160 degrees horizontal), you can still see a bit of black around you (very small though).

 

[demetri]

?? Human horizontal FOV is around 200 degrees. This is common knowledge. Plus, with the Pimax set to "large" FOV (about 160 degrees horizontal), you can still see a bit of black around you (very small though).

It's only 200 when you take into account moving your eyes. And even with that, you can't clearly see what's there at 100 degrees left or right. You'll be able to see a movement or tell what color a big object there is, but not what that object is if you don't know it beforehand

 

[Deleted member 197115]

?? Human horizontal FOV is around 200 degrees. This is common knowledge. Plus, with the Pimax set to "large" FOV (about 160 degrees horizontal), you can still see a bit of black around you (very small though).

Right, 120 binocular, the rest is single eye blurry glimpse.

 

[Spinelli]

It's only 200 when you take into account moving your eyes. And even with that, you can't clearly see what's there at 100 degrees left or right. You'll be able to see a movement or tell what color a big object there is, but not what that object is if you don't know it beforehand

That's wrong. It's around 200 degrees horizontal. The binocular (AKA 3D AKA stereoscopic) vision is around 120 degrees, that doesn't mean you're blind beyond that, it's just not 3D (because your left eye can't see as far to the right as your right eye and vice-versa).

And even if it's blurry (humans don't have a huge sweet spot), how is that relevant? Does that mean it's acceptable for VR headsets to have pathetic h.FOVs? I guess going around with your hands in front of your eyes pretending you have binoculars on is the same as every day normal vision? Of course not. Just because things aren't sharp, doesn't mean we can't see them.

I'm staring at this post right now, the text is sharp. As I look at the monitor, I can see un-clear in my peripheral vision a couch near me. Now, if a dog suddenly jumped on the couch but I kept staring at my monitor, would I be able to count the hairs on the dog's head? No. But would I be able to tell it's a dog and not a bear, or a bird, or a human? Of course. You can still see with peripheral vision.

"An ideal (or near-ideal) viewing experience that covers the entirety of human eye vision would be a VR headset with 220° horizontal, 130° vertical FOV, with a high-resolution, high-refresh-rate screen with an aspect ratio of about 1.5:1 for each eye, and 1.7:1 total."

 

[gamma123152]

Looks like a Pimax Crystal and Varjo Aero competitor, ie. high PPI but small FOV (120 degrees h.FOV is bad). That's definitely a no for me.

I just tried my Pimax on "small" FOV mode which is 120 degrees horizontal and it's so bad - black areas all around yours eyes, like you're looking through binoculars or a key-hole. It makes VR feel like a gimmicky toy to wow your friends for an hour. How do people play and enjoy at 120 degrees h.FOV let alone 110, 100, or even in the 90s on some headsets? I know stereoscopic gaming is incredible but, at that point, I think triple-screens are a much better option (especially if you can get Nvidia 3D Vision going with them but most ppl won't go that route).

I'm not trying to be elitist, I honestly don't know how people do it. Maybe if you're coming from a single screen...and especially a single screen with a 1:1 FOV which would mean terrible peripheral vision then I guess I can understand tolerating VR with a bad h.FOV (anything under 130 or 140 horizontal). However, for triple-screen users or users considering triple-screens, I just don't know how they can pick a bad h.FOV headset and enjoy it over triples.

It's subjective. I've watched all Crystal first roadshow impressions and almost everyone preferred the Crystal over the 8Kx despite the loss of FoV. So the majority seems to prefer visual clarity/high ppd/no godrays/no distortion/great blacks/colors/contrast/brightness over huge FoV. There are also many users that even prefer the Aero over the 8Kx but that stereo overlap was even to small for me(as a G2 user) since I saw a black spot between my eyes/at my nose/felt like tunnel vision. I prefer visual clarity/center resolution over FoV but I cannot go lower than my G2+FoV mod, that's the absolute minimum for me. But the resolution is also mandatory for me, I cannot go below G2 PPD since I'm already irritated at the G2's resolution I'm more irritated at the resolution than the FoV, the FoV doesn't bother me that much actually.

 

[Mekonrider]

For the less well budgeted among you, I managed to get the Pico looking better. It involved some copy and pasted adb commands so I could use Virtual Desktop tethered. Hopefully the developer will work it in but someone said it may break some Oculus rules or something.

Anyway quite dramatic improvement over Pico's Streaming Assistant which is like watercolour. Odd when I put the performance overlay on Stream on, some games run better through VD and some seem to be taking more of a hit. Ironically the biggest winner seemed to be Raceroom which was way crisper than the Lenovo. Same with Dirt 2.0. Annoyingly the worse hit was AC, played the 1967 mod and got quite a few 19ms spikes when I was sitting below 11 all the time on the Lenovo.

 

[blekenbleu]

Third-hand "leak" of Apple's mixed-reality headset features
MacRumors: around US$3000...

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Third-hand "leak" of Apple's mixed-reality headset features
MacRumors: around US$3000...

• The headset has a large outward-facing display on its front. This can show the facial expressions of the headset's wearer to people around them, seeking to reduce a sense of isolation when using the device.

What?

Must protect Robinson's family.

 

[pattikins]

Third-hand "leak" of Apple's mixed-reality headset features
MacRumors: around US$3000...

Does it come with accessories?

 

[RCHeliguy]

PSVR will have 90/120 fps, OLED 4K HDR per eye and 110 degree FOV with haptics.
Very nice!

Beat Saber is migrating to PSVR.
I'm assuming popular PCVR games will start migrating to the console after this.

Oculus has already forged ahead into lower processing power VR for their stand alone devices, so that should help some game companies translate well.

The big question becomes what will this do to PCVR going forward. If PlayStation has an efficient inexpensive and enjoyable VR experience for all the popular VR games and they port over, how will the PCVR sims survive in a small puddle of players?

If they don't have the resources to port to PSVR and the PCVR market dries up and goes to consoles, what will that do to "us".

Time to pick up GT on the playstation?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Just $549, now we just need to find a way to hack it for PC.

 

[blekenbleu]

hack it

Recalling how they screwed over PS3 linux users,
Sony will have provisions for changing firmware to confound hacks.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Recalling how they screwed over PS3 linux users,
Sony will have provisions for changing firmware to confound hacks.

Original PSVR worked (kind of) with Trinius, Sony didn't mind, so who knows, they porting bunch of games to PC these days, might even provide official compatibility later.
But PC native is always better, hopefully we will see something worthy not from Meta or Pimax.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Saw this today and had to laugh a bit. The Aero is a great headset, but I think they just kicked a hornet's nest with this announcement.

I think anyone calling any headset available today the Holy Grail of SimRacing is smoking something.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

A refresh rate of 90Hz for the most fluid on-track action you could possibly imagine

Read the bare minimum average human can stomach.

And what is eye-tracking, did they mean head tracking saying motion and tactile will not have impact on sharpness.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm completely lost on how that will improve things. I think they are mistaken.

Last I heard ( about a week or two ago ) D-Box has no motion compensation and there is no motor moving the lenses to adjust for motion internally.

The eye tracking is great for foveated rendering if there is software support and I think Varjo may have something going on there, but I haven't looked at their discord server in a little while.