Is VR dead?

[RCHeliguy]

The G2 always made me feel like I was looking at a picture. I never felt like I was in the game. It felt 2D to me. I played with the IPD adjustments, had the frankenFov insert which seemed a necessity to avoid tunnel vision. It's possible that the insert impacted stereo vision, but the stock insert wasn't acceptable either. The off center blur was very distracting.

 

[gamma123152]

The G2 always made me feel like I was looking at a picture. I never felt like I was in the game. It felt 2D to me. I played with the IPD adjustments, had the frankenFov insert which seemed a necessity to avoid tunnel vision. It's possible that the insert impacted stereo vision, but the stock insert wasn't acceptable either. The off center blur was very distracting.

In that case I think that I get it! With the G2 you need to move your head constantly when you go through corners/look in mirrors etc. Once you do so you have a great stereoscopic effect. But you move your eyes also since you say "the off center blur was very distracting", if you do that with the G2(moving eyes instead of head) then there's indeed not much left of the high quality image/3D effect that you have in the center.

I got used to moving my head and I work with fixed foveated rendering of 30 percent fom the 1/1 resolution in the center and I have a great 3D effect for that reason. But yes I move my head a lot during racing... It's okay for me but indeed limited by the current tech.

I hope that the Pimax Crystal is going to solve this and that I got a sharp 3D effect more outside the tiny sweetspot center of the G2.

 

[Rebel_488]

In rf2 on the g2 I feel like I am racing on an oil painting sometimes

 

[RCHeliguy]

Pallette knife or brush?

As long as it's a realist and not Picasso.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Pimax Crystal: the VR headset that Sim Racing doesn't need ! - Lebois Racing

Pimax announces its Crystal: a VR headset packed with new technologies, already available for pre-order ($100 discount)! The VR headset market is slowly progressing, and we have to admit that for the last few years, Pimax has been setting the pace. So when Pimax releases a new high-end headset...

lebois-racing.fr

 

[R8pilot]

I upgraded a 2080ti to a 3080 and revisited using my G2 (I had abandoned it a year ago).

First, wow, VR really is a much more engaging experience than a flat panel. I can't say I was any faster, but cornering seemed quite a bit easier and more natural. For example, on a flat panel it was semi-difficult to track the curb on the "carousel" on the Nordshleife, but in VR it was trivial.

Another (unhappy) revelation came when I switched back to the flat panel. My 55" OLED tv only runs at 60 Hz, and wow, going from 90 FPS in the G2 back to 60 was shockingly obvious - suddenly it seemed all-stutters-all-the-time.

But then the downsides: I may not be saying anything new, but in my opinion, the G2 is a grey, washed-out, blurry mess. The "sweet spot" is very small and requires an exactly-positioned headset that's constantly adjusted to even see it. Optical defects are quite bad. The G2 may be one of the better headsets compared to its predecessors, but I wouldn't call it a "good" one. Then, VR software is a mine-field of bugs and awful design, but I will spare you a long rant on that.

I'm a bit torn on it. Taking off the drab, blurry headset, the OLED panel looked so colorful and razor sharp, and the sound was dramatically better. Yet it was flat(!) and distinctly less engaging.

The 3080 made the G2 a little better, but ultimately it's so optically poor, so inconvenient and so bug-filled in use that I don't think I'd wrestle with it often. Maybe I'll finally finish Alyx, but otherwise I think it's mostly an interesting demo for a possible future - one that I'll be keeping my eye on as the technology improves. One day (probably an expensive one) it will fulfill its promise.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Please correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't own the G1. But from what I've understood the G2 is around 50 percent more demanding than the G1 due to it's distortion profile (it has to render that much extra because of it). With the reverb G2 you render around 3400*3300 or something to reach 120 percent native resolution. So that's a huge difference.

iRacing and AC are both very lightweight in VR compared to ACC.

SteamVR reported native resolution on all WMR headsets as 100%, including G1.
G2 was old ball that adopted 1.4x SS coefficient similar to what Vive was using, if you check actual G2 resolution in SteamVR @100%, it's not native.
OpenXR from what I could tell is using true native 100%.

 

[gamma123152]

Pimax Crystal: the VR headset that Sim Racing doesn't need ! - Lebois Racing

Pimax announces its Crystal: a VR headset packed with new technologies, already available for pre-order ($100 discount)! The VR headset market is slowly progressing, and we have to admit that for the last few years, Pimax has been setting the pace. So when Pimax releases a new high-end headset...

lebois-racing.fr

Repost? (Seen it here before) but what simpleminded article; with a clickbait title and more ads than text.

The guy that wrote it clearly didn't seem to have spend much time to get into the Crystal. The eye tracking story is already answered by Pimax. The standalone features don't benefit the simracers but don't hurt sim racers either. They can simply be ignored. In his global impressions in the end he mentioned only something about eye tracking on the 8kx, his personal frustrations. What does that have to do with the Crystal?? Lol.

I couldn't even call this a preview. Its more a rant of someone that bought an eye tracking module for the 8kx for 200 buck's and is still mad about it and this is his what to get pimax back or something.

His initial clickbait title isn't explained by his review at all. The story is completely based on.. ? his eye tracking module experience of the 8kx? He didn't even try the Pimax Crystal.

 

[gamma123152]

Oh later the guy DID test the Crystal. That article makes more sense: https://lebois-racing.fr/review-pimax-crystal

"To conclude on these first impressions: with the Crystal, Pimax progresses in all the fields. But to convince me to invest in this headset (1800€), the eye tracking will have to prove its efficiency, and thus guarantee me to gain in fps compared to the 8KX without having to change my graphic card. If Pimax succeeds in this challenge, it will be the best all-around headset ever!

Pre-order the Crystal on the Pimax store.

EDIT: I put myself in the same conditions with my 8KX: I confirm that the contrasts are better on the Crystal. What is more marked in reality is the sharpness: it is much more uniform than on 8KX."

So he completely changed his mind after testing it. Almost everyone came to that conclusion after they tested it (yes exceptions are of course there but for sure 8 out of the 10).

 

[Mekonrider]

Pallette knife or brush?

As long as it's a realist and not Picasso.

In rf2 on the g2 I feel like I am racing on an oil painting sometimes

This is where I am with the Pico 4. The Lenovo has a lesser resolution but looked sharp, even though it had a bit of screen door and a small area of sharpeness. I was getting 90fps easily.

Now I'm getting around 70fps in CSP AC if I let steam choose the settings. Because my WiFi network isn't good enough for virtual desktop to run anything needing decent FPS it also looks rubbish, even with streaming assistant, the Pico software and a cable connection it still looks rubbish and filtered. The only game that seems ok is Dirt Rally 2. Everything else has suffered.

I may just can the headset for pcvr until I've upgraded my card to a 4xxx series and go back to the Lenovo. The potential is there but the machine driving the headset isn't up to it. Good job it's got some decent native games and works ok for less demanding pcvr titles.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

G2 was the first headset that was monitor like image quality to me, no visible screen door, no jagged lines due to poor resolution. Sweet spot was criminally small though, aftermarket face gasket helped tremendously, but even with that it was taking some adjustment before starting driving to find the right dead on center for pupils. Precise IPD setting was crucial as well.
Perhaps when we get rid of Fresnel lenses, the sweet spot situation improves, PSVR had conventional lenses, and while I haven't owned one, the feedback was almost edge to edge clarity with no visible degradation away from center.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Please correct me if I'm wrong since I didn't own the G1. But from what I've understood the G2 is around 50 percent more demanding than the G1 due to it's distortion profile (it has to render that much extra because of it). With the reverb G2 you render around 3400*3300 or something to reach 120 percent native resolution. So that's a huge difference.

I think you are probably right. I have limited experience of comparing the two and it was nearly two years ago to boot. A colleague was selling one after deciding to go back to their G1. I remember having to crank up the render res quite a bit in the G2 to get the same visual clarity in the central field of view as the G1. To be fair, the G2 was noticeable clearer in the peripheral, but the problem was that I could only really tell when sitting in the pits admiring the view, which is not how I typically use it.

iRacing and AC are both very lightweight in VR compared to ACC.

I totally agree, and when people are asking about what kit is required, what they plan to do with it is a big consideration. For all it's faults, I find AC to still be a great showcase for VR and I tend to use it for anyone trying out my rig as little things like stereoscopic mirrors really help with the immersion. I find it can be very combo dependent though

 

[demetri]

G2 was the first headset that was monitor like image quality to me, no visible screen door, no jagged lines due to poor resolution. Sweet spot was criminally small though, aftermarket face gasket helped tremendously, but even with that it was taking some adjustment before starting driving to find the right dead on center for pupils. Precise IPD setting was crucial as well.
Perhaps when we get rid of Fresnel lenses, the sweet spot situation improves, PSVR had conventional lenses, and while I haven't owned one, the feedback was almost edge to edge clarity with no visible degradation away from center.

I saw SDE just fine with G2, on light blue and light gray surfaces. Not that it was a deal-breaker, but somehow it was more pronounced than with O+, I guess Samsung's anti-SDE film hid it from me. Also, G2 LCD colors were very dull after O+ OLEDs

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I saw SDE just fine with G2, on light blue and light gray surfaces. Not that it was a deal-breaker, but somehow it was more pronounced than with O+, I guess Samsung's anti-SDE film hid it from me. Also, G2 LCD colors were very dull after O+ OLEDs

O+ was a great headset, anything of that design, better resolution, and non Pentile pixel layout would be a killer.
I owned original Odyssey and O+, anti-sde was adding smear to the point that I almost regretted my upgrade until get used to it and countered with higher SS.
With G2 on the other hand it was like washing dirty window, immediate stunning jump in clarity. Haven't noticed any degradation in color or black levels to be honest, although was fully anticipating that.

 

[anton_Chez]

I've owned 2 G2 headsets and I still own my G1. I've owned a Pimax, Index, Oculus. I don't talk from gut feelings. I talk from extensive testing with my own hardware and my own time.

I now run a 49" ultrawide so you can all deal with your VR issues on your own.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I now run a 49" ultrawide so you can all deal with your VR issues on your own.

Another one bites the dust?

 

[Spinelli]

[edit]

 

[Spinelli]

A quick Q without trying to find the answer in the thread (which may now anyways be out of date) With a 4090 & 13900KF combo - Do I go for a 8k PIMAX for a Reverb G2?

Thanks!

Not even close. Pimax 8K X. It's basically unrivalled in-terms of VR performance. Imagine a Reverb G2's clarity in it's centre-spot, now imagine expanding that clarity (or thereabouts) to a much larger area, furthermore, imagine also gaining a TON of horizontal FOV, on top of that, imagine also being able to run at 120 Hz if you desire (using the 8K X beta firmware only available to the newer Pimax 8K X models with serial number starting 2076, not 2075). There's no comparison.

You also get the option of lowering the refresh rate to 90 and 72 Hz if you so desire.

You also get the option of changing the h.FOV between large (160 degrees), normal (140), small (120), and potato (100). I always use either large or normal on my Pimax 5K Super for various reasons.

If you don't mind going with a less expensive, lower-clarity model then there's the 5K Super. If you use "normal" FOV (140 degrees h.FOV), you can use up to 160 Hz (90, 120, 144, 160 Hz). You can even use 180 Hz but you have to use the "potato" FOV for that (100 degrees h.FOV). I know most non-Pimax headsets have an h.FOV of around 95-110 but, if you've never used a VR headset before then, trust me, don't try "potato" or even "small" (120 degrees) FOV or else you might quit VR right on the spot because of the wow-factor of such a bad FOV and feeling like you're looking through a key-hole - at least that's how it always was for me every time I tried a VR headset (I tried most of them) until I finally decided to buy & try a Pimax . Stick to "normal" or "large" FOV.

One last thing. The Pimax headsets qualify for the 12K trade-in program where you get a discount of the full price you paid for the previous headset off the 12K. The exception is the 5K Super, you get a 900 USD discount. For example, I payed $560 for the 5K S (on sale in August) yet I still get a discount of $900 towards the 12K - free money, basically.

Oh later the guy DID test the Crystal. That article makes more sense: https://lebois-racing.fr/review-pimax-crystal

"To conclude on these first impressions: with the Crystal, Pimax progresses in all the fields. But to convince me to invest in this headset (1800€), the eye tracking will have to prove its efficiency, and thus guarantee me to gain in fps compared to the 8KX without having to change my graphic card. If Pimax succeeds in this challenge, it will be the best all-around headset ever!

Pre-order the Crystal on the Pimax store.

EDIT: I put myself in the same conditions with my 8KX: I confirm that the contrasts are better on the Crystal. What is more marked in reality is the sharpness: it is much more uniform than on 8KX."

So he completely changed his mind after testing it. Almost everyone came to that conclusion after they tested it (yes exceptions are of course there but for sure 8 out of the 10).

Regarding the eye-tracking that French guy / site was complaining about:

A) that eye-tracking add-on module for current Pimax headsets only runs at a refresh rate (or polling rate or whatever it's called) of some thing like 30 Hz (the eye-tracking, not the headset's screen). However, I watched a video of someone who downloaded a custom firmware by "Guppyexpress" which changes it to 120 Hz. The video said after that, the tracking is much better. It then tracks "accurately, quickly" and "you really, actually don't notice it working at all because wherever you look, it sharpens up" (talking about eye-tracking foveated rendering).

B) The built-in eye-tracking on the new devices (Crystal, 12K, etc.) are being done by basically the best eye-tracking in the business, Tobii (the eye-tracking add-on modules for the previous headsets were not Tobii).

C) Foveated rendering via eye-tracking for the Crystal and 12K should work for the majority of games because it's being handled at the driver level rather than the game's devs having to implemet support for it.

 

[OlaGB]

I’m on my first week in G2 v2’s, coming from 1440 triples it sure is a step down in picture quality. But i am really having fun with it, as it immerses me to another level.. Especially combined with motion/belts.

Running 150% resolution, openxr at 80% inner ring , and i can run 91fps at very high settings in iracing, and completly maxed put in DR2.0 and AC with sol/pure, on a 13900/4090 pc.

I havent got any experience from other headsets, so i guess ignorance is bliss, but i dont think i would enjoy it as much with anything less of pic quality than i got now. This is the level it has to be for me to be really immersed i think.

I really hope Valve index gets a big update soon, or that the pimax crystal really gets to be a sucsess, then i’m investing in a new set for sure!

 

[gamma123152]

Foveated rendering via eye-tracking for the Crystal and 12K should work for the majority of games because it's being handled at the driver level rather than the game's devs having to implemet support for it.

If this works well then this will be an absolute killer feature. I really like to get the Crystal(and I will). But the company Pimax doesn't seem to be consumer friendly at all, that's my biggest worry about buying anything from Pimax. If it was a "Valve Crystal" or "HP Crystal" or "Sony Crystal" then I preordered the Crystal already. Now I wait until a reseller that offers proper warranty and aftersales got the Pimax Crystal in stock. Such a pity because it will probably take long before it's being available outside of pimax.com