AC GT3 @ Red Bull Ring - Sunday 10th July 2022

[Alfred Wayne]

I had a similar race and quali @thom462 , never reached the time i got in practice, so I was pleasantly surprised with the pace at the end you forced me to find , not that I wasn't sweating the moment I came out the pit and joined you Han and Andreas (I think). Had I not been in reverse post pit stop I might have been able to beat you all out and lead the train, but as I found with our battle, that was enough pressure for me Really good driving. Hoped to see you touch sand at some point, but you never did, so no relaxing on my part

It was a lot of fun to run such a big grid with so many putting in time here to tweak their setups over the week. Thanks all for the good racing and Brian for hosting.

Also thanks for all the set ups to try, enjoyed my time in the Lambo, but I'm curious how far I can push the Audi with some of the setups shared . On that topic, @Kek700 or any other Nissan driver, would you be willing to share your set up, or at least give a few hints on some of the bigger changes you made? Despite me giving it a go, I couldn't find the pace I had in the Lambo or Audi in it, yet many of you seemed to make it work just fine

 

[Interslice]

@Kek700 or any other Nissan driver, would you be willing to share your set up, or at least give a few hints on some of the bigger changes you made? Despite me giving it a go, I couldn't find the pace I had in the Lambo or Audi in it, yet many of you seemed to make it work just fine

If you search the racing club forum there are loads of gt-r setups. It is usually setup very fast and loose.

There is a pack of mugello setups here also. It's the base setup you want to start with. Maybe next week A quick look at them previously, they are not my cup of tea but others like them, I know @RasmusP is a fan.

GT3 Car Pack @Mugello

Been thinking of doing this for a while so here it is. Base setups for the current relevant GT3 field. I used Mugello. The track has everything, big braking zone, slow corners, direction changes, fast corners, off camber corners...the setups that work well here should work well everywhere. The...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

The more detailed write-up:

I practiced a fair bit more for this than the usual 20-30 mins I do, because of the strong field. I also used motec for the setup this time, instead of loading my base Lambo setup and clicking some buttons. RBR isn't really a Lambo track, but it's not terrible for the Lambo either. The straights aren't quite long enough and like I said last night, I didn't get any purple mini-sectors. (Although I did have the fastest sector 1 overall)

That being said, I only barely gained 2 tenths in pure lap time with a good setup. Maybe a bit more in average laptime because it was nicer to drive, but I've always been fairly consistent anyway.

I didn't have a great start (as per usual with the Lambo), which meant I had to fight Aki in T1. I hit the inside kerb too hard and lost drive, which then put the other Finn alongside me. We stayed side-by-side for most of the lap, which meant that Dmitry was more than 3 seconds up the road at the end of the first lap. The gap at the end of the race was also around 3 seconds, and I think it could've been an interesting fight if I had managed to get in Dmitry's slipstream, due to the Lambo's advantage on the straights.

Unfortunately, it wasn't to be. My first stint was sloppy with Aki in my mirrors and it wasn't until the second stint that I was able to close the gap to Dmitry ever so slightly.

 

[Kek700]

Well my achievement pales into not much really, had a long thinking session about the 911.
Where all the dynamics exist in the 911 and how to overcome them with a clean sheet of paper.
At Red bull, the same conditions as last night managed a very, "for me". respectable
1-29-0.5
On softs and all very stable, well as stable as a 911 is ever going to be, curbs with power are still not going to happen any time soon.
This is not a circuit for a 911.
it is still a tricky dicky car, but not really any worse than some of the mid-engined cars.

 

[The Almighty Snark]

I also used motec for the setup this time, instead of loading my base Lambo setup and clicking some buttons.

How does this work with Motec? Not quite sure on the process!

 

[Kek700]

You need acti app in Assetto corsa, there is a how to do it as well in the app you down load
You will find it all in the racedepartment AC app download.

 

[Kek700]

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/acti-assetto-corsa-telemetry-interface.3948/download

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

It comes with a pretty decent Motec worksheet as well. I'd use my own but Acti's motec files use slightly different channels and all the math in my own one is broken because of it (and I'm too lazy to fix it)

 

[Interslice]

Thanks to all for racing last night. Congrats to @demetri and the podium.

Hope you can all make it down the road to mugello next week.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt3-mugello-sunday-17th-july-2022.241829/

 

[Kek700]

I can supply you with my worksheet if you need it, both Casper, not sure Enzo would want it though.

 

[The Almighty Snark]

@Kek700 @Enzo Fazzi Thanks! I've already got that one installed! Only used it on Okyama a few months ago, it was very useful bit it took quite a bit of time to find the improvement points(cause you need data). Thanks a ton again, I ought to be using it a lot more!

 

[JoelK]

@Kek700 @Enzo Fazzi Thanks! I've already got that one installed! Only used it on Okyama a few months ago, it was very useful bit it took quite a bit of time to find the improvement points(cause you need data). Thanks a ton again, I ought to be using it a lot more!

It comes in really handy for setting up Ride height, dampers and toe and suspension travel. If you wanna get fancy with controlling the cars rake (for ex. stall the car on the straight, but still have enough rake for cornering) it can kinda only be done by using telemetry.

I recommend to try and learning a bit how to use it when setting up, cause if you know what you're looking for, you can easily find out errors in the setup when otherwise you would be banging your head against the wall trying to figure out why the car is acting strange when it shouldn't.

Ex. You have set your ride height to 50mm front - 63mm rear, and the car is understeering like crazy on throttle. So you go and check Motec and find out that actually under throttle the car is 65mm front - 58mm rear (a.k.a squatting). So then quick fix is to stiffen up rear rebound so when transitioning from braking to accelerating, the damper slows it down. Had this exact problem with the Audi during practice

 

[The Almighty Snark]

That's Brilliant Joel! I've only used it to optimize braking points and corner exits, though I have been wondering how people optimize ride height! This is definitely an eye opener!

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

Yep, I use it for ride heights (aero), damper histograms, toe and so on.

 

[RasmusP]

My 2 cents about the Porsche:
It's broken in AC. Or rather AC's physics engine has some flaws that are barely noticeable, normally. But with the 911 they all combine into this weird driving car that doesn't hold true to what everyone says about the famous "Grello" around the Nordschleife.
Imo for it to work well in AC, it would need softs at the front and mediums at the rear.

Flaws in AC that work against the Porsche:
- no brake ducts to control core temp
- tyre temps barely influenced by psi, toe and camber
- floor, diffusor and body-rake aero are heavily simplified
- 1-point-tyre-model doesn't show the extremely good traction of the big-booty Porsche

- traction control is pretty bad imo (compare it to rF2 official GT3 or ACC and you know what I mean... I've can count the corner exit spins in rF2 and ACC on one hand. I'd need the hands of our racing club combined to count the spins in AC...)




About setups:
The big issue with written explanations about what's the problem is that it's really complex and really difficult to describe with words. To really help without driving the car yourself, you'd need the replay and telemetry to see what was going on.
Without these, oversteer at the exit can be anything from driver error on the throttle and/or steering, toe out at the rear, too stiff spring, too strong rear bump, too weak front rebound, too low ride height, too much suspension travel, too stiff rear ARB or everything combined.
Only when you're experienced and know a lot, you can feel and see these things while driving yourself.
You get a feeling for the chassis pitching, not rolling enough, bouncing too violently or the tyres just giving way.



Little storytime:
With the ACC club getting a little racing series here, I jumped into it with Hape. We took the Aston Martin, which is the Z4 of ACC basically, but faster in relation to the field.
The pace wasn't too bad, but quite off... That wasn't the biggest issue.. The main issue was that driving the car wasn't fun on our own.
Setup wise I was lost and I didn't have the time to dive into it. ACC is very sensitive to rake aero and the suspension needs to be dialled in by springs and bumpstops, which work like a 2-stage suspension system.

So we tried a few different cars but all had the same issue of not really being fun for us. We downloaded some setups from here and there and everywhere and while some were faster, they didn't really feel fast AND easy to drive.

Long story short, I splashed out on a 1-month subscription from Coach Dave Academy since a guy I once had some PMs going on met David Perel at a simracing event and said that guy would be one of the nicest dudes he had ever met with lots of knowledge and really into this simracing thing.

I dowloaded a few different setups and well, next race my PB would've been pole position and while I didn't get it together in qualy, I did the fastest lap of the race.
At the next race I took pole and again did the fastest lap of the race. Sadly I crashed at Eau Rouge and with ACC having no damage rate for multiplayer, I crawled to the finish in 9th place.

These setups might not be the absolute fastest, but they are all very fun to drive. The cars are agile but I always feel completely in control.
The cars eat kerbs for breakfast (compared to all other setups I've tried) and always stay manoeuvrable.
It really feels like I am the limit, not the car, not the setup.

And now the best: You not only get a qualy and a race setup, you also get Motec files!
You get:
- qualy setup + 1-2 qualy laps motec file
- race setup + 3 consecutive race laps motec file
- pdf with the map and prepared lines for writing notes
- free to the public onboard video of the qualy lap

My practice for the ACC events was the most efficient practice I ever did. Watching the onboard, loading the setup, going on track until I hit the first plateau of improvement.
Watch the onboard again and check if I'm doing something clearly wrong.
If not: go into Motec, check where I'm losing the time, write down notes, pin the notes next to my monitor, improve instantly.
Repeat until plateauing or running out of time


Now the big issue with this is that they don't do the same for AC
But either way this stepped up my overall driving skill!

I'm planning to reverse engineer the setups (motec) over my holidays starting in 2 weeks and then try to apply "the knowledge" to AC.

 

[RasmusP]

Didn't want to put the questions into my long story post...

It comes with a pretty decent Motec worksheet as well. I'd use my own but Acti's motec files use slightly different channels and all the math in my own one is broken because of it (and I'm too lazy to fix it)

Would you share the worksheet with us or did you or the creator put too much work in to share it with anyone?
I got some worksheets and had a play with all kinds of stuff on my own but I'd be very interested to have a look at how others do it!
Maybe I could fix the channels and math for AC and send it back to you at the end of my holidays

Yep, I use it for ride heights (aero), damper histograms, toe and so on.

Would you or @JoelK be willing to post a mini-crash-course for us about how to read the data and what to do?
Not really about the knowledge you'd get from engineering books. More like what actually means what.
Only the AC specific stuff...
Like what ride height value actually means the floor touching the tarmac and what the toe values translate to.
Edit: like with camber, where 0° doesn't mean the tyre being vertically but instead you have this weird equation of body roll angle and camber angle relative to the chassis. And then in AC a vertical tyre not meaning maximum grip but instead you have another equation that determines the "perfect angle" that you can't see in motec but have to use a live session and camber extravaganza...

Examples:
Looking at a lap I did during some holidays in March 2021 after a Donington Race where I practiced and worked on my setup until I would've gotten pole in that race:

Do you guys spot anything that looks "wrong" instantly? I gave up looking for info on this after some point and concentrated on having fun and getting a better driver.. But the itch is there!

And since you should always give something when asking for something:
Setup is attached, MoTeC file is in my dropbox:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[JoelK]

Didn't want to put the questions into my long story post...

Would you share the worksheet with us or did you or the creator put too much work in to share it with anyone?
I got some worksheets and had a play with all kinds of stuff on my own but I'd be very interested to have a look at how others do it!
Maybe I could fix the channels and math for AC and send it back to you at the end of my holidays

Would you or @JoelK be willing to post a mini-crash-course for us about how to read the data and what to do?
Not really about the knowledge you'd get from engineering books. More like what actually means what.
Only the AC specific stuff...
Like what ride height value actually means the floor touching the tarmac and what the toe values translate to.

Examples:
Looking at a lap I did during some holidays in March 2021 after a Donington Race where I practiced and worked on my setup until I would've gotten pole in that race:

Do you guys spot anything that looks "wrong" instantly? I gave up looking for info on this after some point and concentrated on having fun and getting a better driver.. But the itch is there!

View attachment 581531
View attachment 581532
View attachment 581533

And since you should always give something when asking for something:
Setup is attached, MoTeC file is in my dropbox:

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

I'll come back to this tomorrow

 

[Kek700]

@RasmusP I know this is not going to be an easy answer, but you never know, put your values from Dropbox in my acti. Both, does not put any data into my worksheet.

 

[RasmusP]

@RasmusP I know this is not going to be an easy answer, but you never know, put your values from Dropbox in my acti. Both, does not put any data into my worksheet.

Strange.. Works fine for me, no matter the workspace...
What Motec i2 Pro version are you on? My Motec shows 1.1.4.454 at the top. At some point I remember downloading a newer version directly from Motec and I had to "convert" my Workspaces or something...
Not that much of a help, sorry...

Here's the workspace I'm using in any case. You should be able to download that file and simply double click it. Motec should do the rest for you. I used the Workspace-Export function from Motec and when you open it, the workspace "unfolds" automatically.

If you're using an "not really compatible" Motec version, you might get some dialogue about converting the workspace...

But basically you double click the file, will get asked to install the "archive", click yes, it will install it, done.
Then open Motec:
-> Top left -> File -> Workspace -> Open Workspace -> Should be in the list!

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Kek700]

My MoTeC is 1.0.21.003, I have just downloaded the latest version, your archive only seems to work with the latest MoTeC version.
i like your workspace