GRID Autosport GRID Autosport

[Bram Hengeveld]

Things are moving at Codemasters

 

[Matthew Booth]

Sounds like i made the wise choice in not racing after the couple practice races. Got taken in both of them and decided it was not worth continuing.

 

[Karl Fuss]

not once yesterday did i bump someone and take the position. I made contact a couple times while trying to pass but everytime i gave the position back. I thought that's how we were supposed to be racing in this league, no?
I left racing room while others did not. To be blunt it felt a lot like blocking, not racing. And it was not enjoyable.

 

[Rob]

not once yesterday did i bump someone and take the position. I made contact a couple times while trying to pass but everytime i gave the position back. I thought that's how we were supposed to be racing in this league, no?
I left racing room while others did not. To be blunt it felt a lot like blocking, not racing. And it was not enjoyable.

There wee only two, maybe three passing spots on the whole track, but everyone wanted to get by as soon as they approached, no matter where it was. I didn't get the spot back from you Karl, since I was killed. But you apologized. Under the bridge was not a passing spot under any circumstance, yet I saw it time and time again. It' not like esees on road courses, where there is margin for error...you have to come so close to the walls just by driving your line, passing should have been very cautions and limited, if at all. And it wasn't. Patience was not practiced. Like you said, blocking because people constantly wanted to get by everywhere (so it seemed like it) and there was no racing room to leave at 80% of the track, even though it appeared like there was. I made plenty of mistakes myself.

Zig Zaggin because the course was fast and twisty (unlike Monaco, which is slow and twisty) makes for very little room to pass and does not constitute blocking. Especially with the limited visibility.

No long straights, no DRS buttons. You have to race smart. And pick your corners -- perfect examples were everyone who got past me until Peter in Race #2. It can be done. Chris followed be for two laps and then picked his spot. So did you Karl.

Funny thing is, I raced about 12 races against very hard A.I and had no problem and won most.. The humans were the problem. Usually it's the opposite.

Seems like nobody is enjoying it, so maybe we should just fold up shop and call it a day.

 

[Karl Fuss]

There wee only two, maybe three passing spots on the whole track, but everyone wanted to get by s soon as they approached, no matter where it was. I didn't get the spot back from you Karl, since I was killed. But you apologized. Under the bridge was not a passing sport under any circumstance, yet I saw it time and time again. It' not like esees on road courses, where there is margin for error...you have to come so close to the walls just by driving your line, passing should have been very cautions and limited. And it wasn't. Patience was not practices. Like you said, blocking because people constantly wanted to get by everywhere (so it seemed like it) and there was no racing room to leave at 80% of the track, even though it appeared like there was. Zig Zaggin because the course was fast and twist (unlike Monaco, which is slow and twisty) makes for very little room to pass. Especially with the limited visibility.

No long straights, no DRS buttons. You have to race smart. And pick your corners -- perfect examples were everyone who got past me until Peter in Race #2. It can be done.

Seems like nobody is enjoying it, so maybe we should just fold up shop and call it a day.

before your car was destroyed there was contact twice. the first came well before the chicane on the right hand turn where i was inside. at that point we were at least side by side (but i thought i was a little further ahead) you had the whole left side of the track to use there, but you insisted on turning into the apex there. That contact unbalanced my car (and probably yours as well) and we slid across the track to the left where contact was made again which unfortunately ended your race. The same situation happened in race 2 but you were on the right and i was on the left.... that did not end up in either of us ending our race.

There are lots of places to pass on that circuit if the racing room is provided.

No one is saying we want to chuck this series in and not race. we want to race fairly. You were hard to get by yesterday and did have some good lap times, but there also seemed to me to be some pretty blatant blocking. If that's how you want to race, fine. But don't be surprised when your race ends because of it.

 

[Rob]

"before your car was destroyed there was contact twice. the first came well before the chicane on the right hand turn where i was inside. at that point we were at least side by side (but i thought i was a little further ahead) you had the whole left side of the track to use there, but you insisted on turning into the apex there. That contact unbalanced my car (and probably yours as well) and we slid across the track to the left where contact was made again which unfortunately ended your race."
-- Karl Fuss to Robert Waddell

This is where I think people don't understand the nature of this track or how to race on this sort of track. Gamers, and most racers, don't have experience here, but from the dozens of races I ran here, I learned one rule above all -- you cannot pass in that area we made contact (among others). Your perception that "I had the whole left side" of the track, if you look at that whole section in the dirt, is unfounded. Those are very fast esses, and you have get extremely close to the right wall to make enough room to clear the rail on the left, then you have to get back around to the right enough to be able to straight like the dark red wall on the right and the rail shortly after that on the left. We made contact, because if any part of that sequence is broken (especially by someone who you *think* is behind you or even comes up to get a nose in front of you) then you are usually dead.

Why? Because the turns are a sequence...you can't just take them one by one and say "well you had tons of room after we got on the dirt, so what's the problem?" The problem is that the leading car -- starting at the dirt, which you admit I was (I know I couldn't see you until it was too late) -- has to be given a single line all throughout that dirt section until the passing opportunity at the end. Either nobody was able to understand this (despite me saying it up front) or they just wanted to treat the whole track like Spa, when it's really closer to just a string of fast chicanes. Even the announcers explain this if you listen to them.

Same with the turn after the front straight and same with the esses on the back. I'm not saying this because I' some big ex-racer. Anyone could have learned this by racing the A.I. over and over, but I get the feeling people are just blowing the series off for the Almighty Ruler of All -- F1. That's why it's useless to go forward unless we just stick to boring F1 tracks, which people seems to be able to grasp, like Willow Springs and Laguna Seca.

 

[Rob]

You were hard to get by yesterday and did have some good lap times, but there also seemed to me to be some pretty blatant blocking. If that's how you want to race, fine. But don't be surprised when you race ends because of it.

Well that's awful kind of you Karl. I guess that's a threat? I'll say it for the last time...changing you lines (especially in a car that is broken, on dirt, with 5 other maniacs around you), is NOT blocking because you have to weave very fast like to make a good time. Blocking is done on straights. It would help if you understood the rule. Did you even run any practice races with A.I. You would have gotten a rude awakening, which would have been good.

Although the track was wide, the necessary line was very back and forth (never mind the damage) because of the nature of the track. To pretend like anyone could "block" on this track and keep a 1:19-1:18 pace, like I did for a week, is just stupid. Why do you think Watts pulled away? Because he didn't have to deal with rammers, like I did. (Now I admit, much of it was my own causing, but that's on me and I accept it, but I don't accept the idiotic passing attempts).

And if that's going to be the attitude (he didn't let me by!!! I miss the blue flags!! That's blockng!! So I'm going to wreck him!!!) then I don't want any part of it. This isn't F1. Tracks are different and you need to learn them and be patient. I had as much right to what ever crazy line the track called for (and even one move if I wanted, but would have been crazy to make) as anyone else, including your super fast self.

I'm the one who was plastered into the wall twice because impatient drivers thought they could pass in sections they had no business trying to pass in...and now I'm the villain. No thanks.

 

[Rob]

Grid Autosport is now Peter Hooper's series, alone, If he wants it. I'll still run some Shift2 races because a few people really seem to be into it. But they will be recorded and penalties will be issued for driving infractions, with appeal right. If enough interest to continue is there after this current run ends, maybe it can continue, but next gen is calling.

 

[Peter Hooper]

Just had another read of that earlier post of yours Robert and just noticed the comment about my giving a flat out lie. Something I take particular offence to and certainly didn't expect from you. Watch the video again and note that there is a nudge from the rear which sends me over to the right and into that wall, you think I would go there deliberately!! As I've said I'll take responsibility for my part in it but that was one incident.

In answer to a few points.. Did I say that comment about coming to a stop was in reference to our turn 1 incident.. it was in reference to two of the three times you came back off a wall into me, both of which I had other cars directly behind me and they in fact got past as a result.

Absolutely right.. I came off the rails when chasing you at one point and had a couple of stupid moments some time after you had gone which I referred to in an earlier post before you started this whole thing.. in either case did I impede any other driver? I think you'll find I was the only one to suffer from those moments so your point has no real validity there. Pretty much everyone had moments in that race.

I have not asked you to apologise Robert... not once.

As for comparing the incident with me and Colin at Montreal two entirely different scenarios.. one was in the wet into a chicane which only takes one car.. this was in the dry, through a turn that although not easy to do was proved to be possible to have two cars going through there several times earlier in the race.

As I've said and i'll say it again I'll apologise for my part in the turn 1 incident but no way was it intentional (use your car as a buffer.. really!! how long have we raced together Robert...).

That's the end of the matter as far as I am concerned... it should have ended where I left it last night as far as i'm concerned but hey ho it didn't. I don't hold grudges and am big enough to just leave this where it is.

It's your baby Robert.. do with it what you will.

 

[Karl Fuss]

Well that's awful kind of you Karl. I guess that's a threat? I'll say it for the last time...changing you lines (especially in a car that is broken, on dirt, with 5 other maniacs around you), is NOT blocking because you have to weave very fast like to make a good time. Blocking is done on straights. It would help if you understood the rule. Did you even run any practice races with A.I. You would have gotten a rude awakening, which would have been good.

Although the track was wide, the necessary line was very back and forth (never mind the damage) because of the nature of the track. To pretend like anyone could "block" on this track and keep a 1:19-1:18 pace, like I did for a week, is just stupid. Why do you think Watts pulled away? Because he didn't have to deal with rammers, like I did. (Now I admit, much of it was my own causing, but that's on me and I accept it, but I don't accept the idiotic passing attempts).

And if that's going to be the attitude (he didn't let me by!!! I miss the blue flags!! That's blockng!! So I'm going to wreck him!!!) then I don't want any part of it. This isn't F1. Tracks are different and you need to learn them and be patient. I had as much right to what ever crazy line the track called for (and even one move if I wanted, but would have been crazy to make) as anyone else, including your super fast self.

I'm the one who was plastered into the wall twice because impatient drivers thought they could pass in sections they had no business trying to pass in...and now I'm the villain. No thanks.

i do not make threats. one can not stay a member of this forum by threatening other members. this is a forum for leagues and friendly racing.
I understand the racing rules just fine. weaving back and fourth on the track to keep your ideal line is fine when there aren't other cars around you. don't forget the others on the track.
I had several practice races. against both the hard ai and the very hard ai.

"Idiotic passing attempts" - when there is significant overspeed you can attempt to pass anywhere. sometimes this comes as a result of the car in front making a mistake. and when someone is attempting to pass you have every right to protect your line, but when protecting your line turns into contact with the other car that's where the issue is. Protecting your line after making a mistake is a choice i do not make. when i make a mistake, if the other car has a chance to pass i leave them room.

no one here is talking about intentionally wrecking other cars except you. If you choose to protect your line and it ends in a wreck it's your choice.

"And if that's going to be the attitude (he didn't let me by!!! I miss the blue flags!! That's blockng!! So I'm going to wreck him!!!) then I don't want any part of it. "
I haven't heard anyone here say this, or insinuate it. You've been a welcome member to these forums and have added a great deal to organizing and racing here. I've enjoyed it immensely. I'm not sure what's going on with you that you seem to think people are complaining about you. It seems you've "got your back up" for some reason. I hope your participation doesn't end here. No one is calling you the villain. Maybe this conversation should end now, or we take a few days off before it continues.

 

[Peter Hooper]

I don't know why there is any talk of writing off the series.. we have had some great races over the two seasons and now we've had one that hasn't gone well. We have all been on the end of some frustrating incidents at some point or another but we just get on with it and try to learn from mistakes.. end of. No reason to end the series.

 

[Rob]

No grudges here either Peter. And I didn't call you a liar. I said either or...and then said I would never label you as such. Read carefully, my friend.

In fact, was prepared to put this behind me too, as your friendship in very valuable to me, but I just flat out disagree with your actions and your words in this instance. Wouldn't be the first time. We always got through it like adults. But Karl's comments ran much deeper, and considering that I don't really want to be playing games with people who think I'm intentionally breaking the "rules" (because they can't get by like in F1 in a section they simultaneously apologized for wrecking me in (guess he took that one back after some thought or some video courage) and never practiced, then it's just too much for me.

We already have time conflicts, a guy who won't play if he can't win or might get hit (can't say he was wrong there in this instance), and a co-director who, at best, agrees with Karl halfway. So it's just not worth the effort from my standpoint. I'd rather race with people who understand more than F1 and respect each other...even the ones they can't get past, if the track is tight and the times are even.

I respect all of you guys and consider you friends, but threats aren't cool, especially when ignorant and unfounded. There will still be a Shift2 series for those who want to race diverse cars in a more SIM-like setting. Those times will have to be determined, as my schedule is changing. You are a better fit for this crowd.

And then on to next gen. It's been a nice run. I wish you well.

 

[Rob]

I don't know why there is any talk of writing off the series.. we have had some great races over the two seasons and now we've had one that hasn't gone well. We have all been on the end of some frustrating incidents at some point or another but we just get on with it and try to learn from mistakes.. end of. No reason to end the series.

I agree. None at all. Have at it. You already have access.

 

[Michael Watts]

Lets just let some things cool off.. we're are competitors very Passionate about what we do. Even when I make the mistake that takes myself out (Race 1) I am upset with myself. That's just racing. I respect all of you guys. And I appreciate the opportunity to run with some of the fastest guys online.

 

[Karl Fuss]

But Karl's comments ran much deeper, and considering that I don't really want to be playing games with people who think I'm intentionally breaking the "rules" (because they can't get by like in F1 in a section they simultaneously apologized for wrecking me in (guess he took that one back after some thought or some video courage) and never practiced, then it's just too much for me.

I'm Canadian Robert, our default is to apologize.
I was and am sorry that we both didn't make it though the turn.

If want to quit you have every right to. but don't blame your quitting on others.

 

[Rob]

i do not make threats. one can not stay a member of this forum by threatening other members. this is a forum for leagues and friendly racing.
I understand the racing rules just fine. weaving back and fourth on the track to keep your ideal line is fine when there aren't other cars around you. don't forget the others on the track.
I had several practice races. against both the hard ai and the very hard ai.

"Idiotic passing attempts" - when there is significant overspeed you can attempt to pass anywhere. sometimes this comes as a result of the car in front making a mistake. and when someone is attempting to pass you have every right to protect your line, but when protecting your line turns into contact with the other car that's where the issue is. Protecting your line after making a mistake is a choice i do not make. when i make a mistake, if the other car has a chance to pass i leave them room.

no one here is talking about intentionally wrecking other cars except you. If you choose to protect your line and it ends in a wreck it's your choice.

"And if that's going to be the attitude (he didn't let me by!!! I miss the blue flags!! That's blockng!! So I'm going to wreck him!!!) then I don't want any part of it. "
I haven't heard anyone here say this, or insinuate it. You've been a welcome member to these forums and have added a great deal to organizing and racing here. I've enjoyed it immensely. I'm not sure what's going on with you that you seem to think people are complaining about you. It seems you've "got your back up" for some reason. I hope your participation doesn't end here. No one is calling you the villain. Maybe this conversation should end now, or we take a few days off before it continues.

No grudges Karl. Just a very big difference of opinion and a feeling like you tend to rely on your natural talent (which is considerable) instead of understanding the rules. You said this:
You were hard to get by yesterday and did have some good lap times, but there also seemed to me to be some pretty blatant blocking. If that's how you want to race, fine. But don't be surprised when your race ends because of it.

Well, blatant blocking is cheating. Not sure anyone would disagree there. I take offense to that, as would Peter if he were called a liar.

And if the result, according to you, of my "cheating" is the ending of my race, it makes me wonder whether you ended my race because you thought I was cheating.

Pretty simple to grasp I think. I don't have my back up...I just have a co-director who thinks it's okay to pass where I don't and a former teammate who calls me a "blatant blocker" and predicts that my races "will end" because of it. The same guy who apologized when he slammed me into the wall (I never saw you) in a section where there was no "significant overspeed" or "car in front making a mistake" and has no idea what blocking is (hint: "when someone is attempting to pass you have every right to protect your line, but when protecting your line turns into contact with the other car that's where the issue is." is utter and complete crap, especially when you are at a track like this, where "the line" is 140mph between wide walls, back and forth).

If people can't admit when they screw up (I do all the time because I'm not as gamer gifted as you all) they need to admit it. Maybe you need some better competition and some lessons in humility instead of retracting apologies.

But yea. It's over. Had some good times too. Thanks for those. I still may disagree with you Karl and I respect all the work you do in F1, so good luck rocking on with that in the future.

 

[Rob]

I'm Canadian Robert, our default is to apologize.
I was and am sorry that we both didn't make it though the turn.

If want to quit you have every right to. but don't blame your quitting on others.

Well at least you retained your sense of humor. Good one. Can I not quit because I disagree with how others treat the rules and the series? That's not blame. Heck, they may be right, for all I know. I just disagree. Not worth the effort to run in races where the rules are meaningless, especially when I try my best to explain the track and the extra caution you have to have in most of the sections. It's like real racing Karl...passing is set up far far in advance and done in braking zones. Their weren't many on this track. You would think people who had been "racing" would get that and not scapegoat someone by calling them a blatant blocker. But oh well. I try to do my best to tell folks to really really be careful, and get the opposite. How would you feel? Even Peter, who knows those dangerous sections, pins me to the right lane and then into the wall and washes his hands. I can't race like that. I'm sorry.

 

[Karl Fuss]

@Robert Waddell there is no where on that circuit where you hit 140mph with the cars we were in.

I'm done debating with you about this race. You always race hard and protect your line. You turned into me, as is clear in the video, when you had all the left side of the track to use. That was your choice.

 

[Rob]

@Robert Waddell there is no where on that circuit where you hit 140mph with the cars we were in.

I'm done debating with you about this race. You always race hard and protect your line. You turned into me, as is clear in the video, when you had all the left side of the track to use. That was your choice.

@Karl Fuss. Bullshit. Of course I turned into your invisible car. The arrow on my left was completely behind my door handle until you decided to stick your nose in to the right side at over 100mph (whatever); when any person with a clear understanding of this track and racing would know I needed (and had a right to ) get to that right wall. But you decided to block (forcing me to hit the left wall or slam on the brakes and hit the left wall) on some boneheaded attempt to pass in an area of the track no decent racer would try a pass like that, which should be a single file section...unless you are at least 1/2 a car length ahead. You were nowhere close. Just because you want to pass doesn't give you the right to block me and then cause me to wreck.

Same B.S. move Peter pulled. But at least he was along side. You were behind until you decided to block my line and wreck me as a result, after ignoring many verbal warnings about passing in that section.

 

[Matthew Booth]

a guy who won't play if he can't win or might get hit (can't say he was wrong there in this instance)

Not sure why you are bringing me into this i have no interest whatsoever in this argument (If it's not me my apologies - It certainly sounds it though)

. That being said id have raced if you had not ploughed me into the barrier and driven off. I was annoyed then and when annoyed i turn into a lobby driver which would of been suited by sounds of things but not interested in ruining races.

All in all time to end this petty crap incidents happen, Dubai is wide track realistically only place you can't overtake is that quick left right left under the building but everywhere is possible for the most part, Me & Chris had a battle though T1 in one of our practices he came around the outside of me.

 

[Rob]

Not sure why you are bringing me into this i have no interest whatsoever in this argument (If it's not me my apologies - It certainly sounds it though)

. That being said id have raced if you had not ploughed me into the barrier and driven off. I was annoyed then and when annoyed i turn into a lobby driver which would of been suited by sounds of things but not interested in ruining races.

All in all time to end this petty crap incidents happen, Dubai is wide track realistically only place you can't overtake is that quick left right left under the building but everywhere is possible for the most part, Me & Chris had a battle though T1 in one of our practices he came around the outside of me.

Sorry Boothy. I certainly don't recall slamming into you in practice (and it's practice after all, so why the temper?) and would have rightly apologized had it been brought to my attention. So many of these things are not recorded and/or lag, but I felt very strongly that my incidents with Peter and Karl were not, and they admitted same. You have done the same to me countless times when we are just practicing, especially on ovals, and I don't let it bother me because it's just practice after all.

Don't worry. I'm sure Peter Hooper will ensure anger-free racing in the future. It's his series now, so you can be sure to be well rid of me and my overtly aggressive and hate-inciting driving. I'm sure once I'm gone the series will be much more peaceful.