GRID Autosport GRID Autosport

[Bram Hengeveld]

Things are moving at Codemasters

 

[Matthew Booth]

Sorry Boothy. I certainly don't recall slamming into you in practice (and it's practice after all, so why the temper?) and would have rightly apologized had it been brought to my attention. So many of these things are not recorded and/or lag, but I felt very strongly that my incidents with Peter and Karl were not, and they admitted same. You have done the same to me countless times when we are just practicing, especially on ovals, and I don't let it bother me because it's just practice after all.

It was more the fact that it felt very deliberate more then anything Robert even though im sure it wasn't . It seemed like you used me as a crash mat cos you overshot the corner. That's why i was annoyed any other time id move on but that irked me.

 

[Rob]

It was more the fact that it felt very deliberate more then anything Robert even though im sure it wasn't . It seemed like you used me as a crash mat cos you overshot the corner. That's why i was annoyed any other time id move on but that irked me.

Although I don't recall the incident, I was used the same way in the actual races, so I, at least understand how you feel. I'm sorry if that's how it went down.

I spent so much time practicing on this track, I could actually get into the low 1:18s and always beat the Street A.I., so being out of control here was a rare event for me 99% of the time, but lag certainly happens...please consider that first.

In addition, many either caused accidents or got the brunt of the accident because they tried to force their way past other cars in paces that were not passing zones, which was 80-85% of the track. Few seemed to understand this, regrettably. My races were ended precisely due to these kind of ill-advised moves (although others disagree and we have just agreed to disagree since I'm no longer running in this Series). If is truly as you describe, though, I am very sorry.

 

[TheHemps]

Isn't this like the first race where there's been some avoidable incidents?

We've managed a season and a half of good racing and now because of one bad race we're all up in arms.

I re-configuered my buttons so that my D-Pad looks left, right and behind. Has anyone else done that? I recommend it as the lack of mirrors is a joke and it's really helped me be aware of whats happening around me.

 

[TheHemps]

Although I don't recall the incident, I was used the same way in the actual races, so I, at least understand how you feel. I'm sorry if that's how it went down.

I spent so much time practicing on this track, I could actually get into the low 1:18s and always beat the Street A.I., so being out of control here was a rare event for me 99% of the time, but lag certainly happens...please consider that first.

In addition, many either caused accidents or got the brunt of the accident because they tried to force their way past other cars in paces that were not passing zones, which was 80-85% of the track. Few seemed to understand this, regrettably. My races were ended precisely due to these kind of ill-advised moves (although others disagree and we have just agreed to disagree since I'm no longer running in this Series). If is truly as you describe, though, I am very sorry.

I reckon there's a few passing points. Why don't we re-run. Yeah it was a mess, but it's an anomaly. Put it behind us and try again or just go on to the next race and put it behind us, Either way this has gone much farther than it has to.

If this was a regular thing then I'd see why people would start getting annoyed at each other, but it's not.

 

[Rob]

I reckon there's a few passing points. Why don't we re-run. Yeah it was a mess, but it's an anomaly. Put it behind us and try again or just go on to the next race and put it behind us, Either way this has gone much farther than it has to.

If this was a regular thing then I'd see why people would start getting annoyed at each other, but it's not.

You make some good points Chris, and I respect your opinion. However, I don't think this is an isolated incident. To tell you the truth, I made HRH the Steward for a reason. He has the most racing experience of all of us. I was a club racer, and Watts has some track time I think. I think there are two problems here:

1. I really think there is a disconnect between reality and gaming that folks who have never races just don't get. I tried to explain it in the F1 paddock (about the corner cutting) and was promptly shouted down. Ralier gets it, but he's not on here much because he has a life. I also could go on and on about "the right to the line" and what the definition of "the line" is and what the responsibilities of the passer and passee are, but I think it largely goes over people's heads who have not raced. Now, I know what people will say. They will say...you snob. But many racing rules are counter-intuative (line corner cutting and concepts regarding the racing line and how that changes from track to track) and only someone who's like has been put at risk doing what they love (and what we love to do in a game) really understand. I made Railer Chief Steward for a reason. And he and I are of the opinion that rules, whether understood or not, are being bent all to hell in this series right now. Yes, Chris it's partly due to the idiocy of Codemasters, but we need to understand that. For instance, Peter looked in his mirror and still came right over three lanes of road. That gets you suspended in real life (I know he disagrees, but it's going to happen again unless he and others suddenly get it). And Karl's move probably gets you banned. Ironically, me bouncing off a wall and hitting Peter get me nothing. A punch in the nose maybe. A question about my driving skills, definitely, but not an infraction. It's all about intent and judgment. There is none in the latter, and both in the former. Now, I'm not perfect, and I'm not fast, and I make as many stupid moves as the next guy, and we all have become more aggressive because of, I think, a reaction to the over-aggressiveness in general, ironically. But I do know what racing traditions and customs are in detail from having been taught by people like Tommy Kendall. And Railer's teachers go even higher. That's not to be dismissed. If you do, then you are a fool. A stupid lobby gamer, as it were. But I know you guys better than that. You ALL get the meta concepts that racers get on a micro level, but for some reason, they have disappeared recently. Railer will not say it but I will...moves on Watts at Abu Dhabi were reckless. I can't pass much, but those who do have a responsibility. Why do you see DTM racers going in one line 90% of the time? Then compare that to our races. How many times do you see that? Maybe one lap. Then "the dive" or "the shove" and that's something that we don't see in real life because someone dies. I'm not naive enough to think that games equal real life, but folks, that's all we got. Which brings me to my second point.

2. This series has always taken a back seat to F1. Which is fine. But I think the lack of respect and last minute "I'm in, no I'm out because you hit me" nonsense is evidence of that. People give each other more respect in F1 whether it's wet or not (Peter) and you will never convince me otherwise. Partly because they can see behind them, true Chris, but partly because they have invested in F1 lots of time and energy. They also consider that the only reason they stay here on the site. Well I don't. And I know Peter doesn't. I'm not so sure about the rest. Chris, I think you would race anything with wheels, and I know Watts and Railer would. I'd rather not race F1 obviously, at this point. Especially when I get smartass comments from "racers" like Colin who derides me for bowing out when it's because my job hours changed. That's a lack of respect for me. And I think it's bled over here somehow. Maybe not intentionally, but it doesn't really matter to me. There are too many other sites and series' to put up with that juvenile crap. But I have thick skin. And I'd be back if I thought F1 was worth it on next gen. But my point is, why the lack of respect? All I do is have opinions and argue them like a lawyer. I can't help it. But I don't think many like it, which I can understand. My theory is that somehow that lack of respect, either for me or for this series, has bled over somehow. Boothy I love you man, but you would never pull that **** in an F1 race. And you know it. I'm speaking my mind because I need to and I thing I owe you guys a reason why I quit this. Not because I am trying to win any arguments. I gave that up after this weekend.

Chris, Peter, Railer, and Watts (Mike, boy have you come a long way, and I mean in the clean category...just wanted you to know it's noticeable to me, and sometimes I'm jealous). Out of respect for you guys and because I consider all of you friends, I'll take Chris' suggestion on three conditions.

1. That every person either take the series seriously when they sign up or leave.

2. That every incident involving contact in every race, from now on, be reviewed by someone with racing experience (unless they are involved) and penalties should be expected, including points deductions, suspensions, and bans. Otherwise, I don't know how to get a handle on it. It's out of control, and I would rather not be associated with it. Go race F1 every two weeks, and leave me and a few others to race shift2 and Race Pro until the 360 dies.

3. That Chris, you will step in (and I'm the real guilty one here) if things start to escalate over an incident and tell me, or anyone else to STFU and order it not discussed on the forums and to take it to the stewards (even though it would likely be reviewed anyway). The stewards will now be Watts and Ralier (Chief) since they have demonstrated a commitment to the series and have racing experience. I can review too if needed. But that's it.

I was ready to walk away. In fact determined to. Ask Peter. But Chris, out of respect for you, I have to relent. Anyone can run thing. It's not rocket science. But it's hard to be the one who makes the rules and enforces them.

 

[Peter Hooper]

I can only respond briefly for now as I’m at work and in the middle of a very busy spell but I can respond quickly to the 3 points outlined at the end:-

1) Never taken the series anything other than seriously. Two races missed I think over the 2 seasons and the only one this season was due to my wife’s birthday which I think is a pretty reasonable excuse as we were out for the evening (and the race didn’t happen anyway….)

2) Was that not already the case? If anybody had a problem with anything during a race the system was in place to take it to the stewards, you put that in place yourself Robert and it is a good system. The simple fact is that that has only happened once (last year at COTA if I remember correctly). If it’s got out of hand then I am not aware of much of it other than this weekend’s race. I’ll have to go back and check the videos of the moves on Michael at Abu Dhabi.. as far as I recall there was an incident involving Michael and somebody at turn 1 but I don’t recall anything major being made of it at the time and Michael didn’t put in a complaint about it . If there was a problem then it needed to be highlighted after the race in the correct manner. That’s what the system is there for.

The problem of it is that not everyone records their races so some incidents go un recorded but my recording will always be (and always have been) available for anyone to review.

3) I always thought the general guidelines for anything like this is that a cooling off period is advised and no comments be made in the forum in the aftermath of any incident but rather should be directed towards the stewards. Maybe we should just stick to that.

The only other thing I feel the need to respond to at the moment is the comment about my move on you that you are referring to as deliberate. There was absolutely no intent in that at all and I find it difficult to understand why you would even think that as you know me better than that. All the hours we have raced together and yet one incident overshadows the whole of that for some reason. In over 5 years of racing here it has never entered my head to deliberately take another driver out.. least of all someone who I got on with so well. Misjudged I will accept as having watched my video of the incident a few times now I did allow my car to drift across the line which I hold my hands up for and apologise for ‘again’ but I don’t get how you can say that in respect of my car coming across your line but seem unable to take that on board yourself about other incidents. I pride myself on keeping it clean and that doesn’t change over one incident. I definitely disagree that the three incidents of your bouncing off the wall into me would bring no punishment and I’ll stand by that and surely that has to come under the misjudgement banner.

I’m glad that you are reconsidering racing the series and we can hopefully put this one behind us.

 

[Karl Fuss]

And Karl's move probably gets you banned.

Sorry Robert,I disagree as i think many here would. What gets you banned is deliberate contact, not miscalculated passes. When you come across the line to defend your position and you make contact with the other driver (which you did several times a lap at some points in race 2) those are the kinds of actions that should be talked about at length. Not the incidents where two cars go into a corner side by side and only one comes out, those are racing incidents.
When you bash other people all over the track trying to stay in front of the other cars with careless disregard that is not racing, that's bumper cars.
If you can't race without making so much contact with the other drivers involved then you shouldn't be racing.

I'm happy to race with anyone, as long as they respect the drivers around them. I don't think the way you drove in the second race was very respectful of the other drivers around you. Maybe it was anger at about the previous incident... God knows we've all been there before....I don't know.

 

[TheHemps]

You make some good points Chris, and I respect your opinion. However, I don't think this is an isolated incident. To tell you the truth, I made HRH the Steward for a reason. He has the most racing experience of all of us. I was a club racer, and Watts has some track time I think. I think there are two problems here:

1. I really think there is a disconnect between reality and gaming that folks who have never races just don't get. I tried to explain it in the F1 paddock (about the corner cutting) and was promptly shouted down. Ralier gets it, but he's not on here much because he has a life. I also could go on and on about "the right to the line" and what the definition of "the line" is and what the responsibilities of the passer and passee are, but I think it largely goes over people's heads who have not raced. Now, I know what people will say. They will say...you snob. But many racing rules are counter-intuative (line corner cutting and concepts regarding the racing line and how that changes from track to track) and only someone who's like has been put at risk doing what they love (and what we love to do in a game) really understand. I made Railer Chief Steward for a reason. And he and I are of the opinion that rules, whether understood or not, are being bent all to hell in this series right now. Yes, Chris it's partly due to the idiocy of Codemasters, but we need to understand that. For instance, Peter looked in his mirror and still came right over three lanes of road. That gets you suspended in real life (I know he disagrees, but it's going to happen again unless he and others suddenly get it). And Karl's move probably gets you banned. Ironically, me bouncing off a wall and hitting Peter get me nothing. A punch in the nose maybe. A question about my driving skills, definitely, but not an infraction. It's all about intent and judgment. There is none in the latter, and both in the former. Now, I'm not perfect, and I'm not fast, and I make as many stupid moves as the next guy, and we all have become more aggressive because of, I think, a reaction to the over-aggressiveness in general, ironically. But I do know what racing traditions and customs are in detail from having been taught by people like Tommy Kendall. And Railer's teachers go even higher. That's not to be dismissed. If you do, then you are a fool. A stupid lobby gamer, as it were. But I know you guys better than that. You ALL get the meta concepts that racers get on a micro level, but for some reason, they have disappeared recently. Railer will not say it but I will...moves on Watts at Abu Dhabi were reckless. I can't pass much, but those who do have a responsibility. Why do you see DTM racers going in one line 90% of the time? Then compare that to our races. How many times do you see that? Maybe one lap. Then "the dive" or "the shove" and that's something that we don't see in real life because someone dies. I'm not naive enough to think that games equal real life, but folks, that's all we got. Which brings me to my second point.

2. This series has always taken a back seat to F1. Which is fine. But I think the lack of respect and last minute "I'm in, no I'm out because you hit me" nonsense is evidence of that. People give each other more respect in F1 whether it's wet or not (Peter) and you will never convince me otherwise. Partly because they can see behind them, true Chris, but partly because they have invested in F1 lots of time and energy. They also consider that the only reason they stay here on the site. Well I don't. And I know Peter doesn't. I'm not so sure about the rest. Chris, I think you would race anything with wheels, and I know Watts and Railer would. I'd rather not race F1 obviously, at this point. Especially when I get smartass comments from "racers" like Colin who derides me for bowing out when it's because my job hours changed. That's a lack of respect for me. And I think it's bled over here somehow. Maybe not intentionally, but it doesn't really matter to me. There are too many other sites and series' to put up with that juvenile crap. But I have thick skin. And I'd be back if I thought F1 was worth it on next gen. But my point is, why the lack of respect? All I do is have opinions and argue them like a lawyer. I can't help it. But I don't think many like it, which I can understand. My theory is that somehow that lack of respect, either for me or for this series, has bled over somehow. Boothy I love you man, but you would never pull that **** in an F1 race. And you know it. I'm speaking my mind because I need to and I thing I owe you guys a reason why I quit this. Not because I am trying to win any arguments. I gave that up after this weekend.

Chris, Peter, Railer, and Watts (Mike, boy have you come a long way, and I mean in the clean category...just wanted you to know it's noticeable to me, and sometimes I'm jealous). Out of respect for you guys and because I consider all of you friends, I'll take Chris' suggestion on three conditions.

1. That every person either take the series seriously when they sign up or leave.

2. That every incident involving contact in every race, from now on, be reviewed by someone with racing experience (unless they are involved) and penalties should be expected, including points deductions, suspensions, and bans. Otherwise, I don't know how to get a handle on it. It's out of control, and I would rather not be associated with it. Go race F1 every two weeks, and leave me and a few others to race shift2 and Race Pro until the 360 dies.

3. That Chris, you will step in (and I'm the real guilty one here) if things start to escalate over an incident and tell me, or anyone else to STFU and order it not discussed on the forums and to take it to the stewards (even though it would likely be reviewed anyway). The stewards will now be Watts and Ralier (Chief) since they have demonstrated a commitment to the series and have racing experience. I can review too if needed. But that's it.

I was ready to walk away. In fact determined to. Ask Peter. But Chris, out of respect for you, I have to relent. Anyone can run thing. It's not rocket science. But it's hard to be the one who makes the rules and enforces them.

1. I do take it seriously. I think you;re the only one that knows of my current situation so I missed a couple of races due to that.

2. Have you put your incidents to the stewards? You could still do that now and I'll accept whatever they dish out.

3. I did This is where we are now.

Robert, before you arrived all we had was F1. You've completely expanded the horizons for a few of us and I'm really happy you have. Not to mention your contributions to the forums.

Just a thought, but since the majority of the Grid league is over in North America why not have it a couple hours later? I think it suits everyone. Pete and I are night owls anyway, I've seen Boothy up late, and that means you guys over there have all of saturday day time to yourselves. I know that Karl uses his Saturdays to spend time with his wife and have a social life, a later start would definitely suit him I'm sure, and it cant be bad for you, Railer or Michael.
Just something to think about

 

[Rob]

My schedule will not allow a later race. I'm not sure it will allow a race at all on the weekends. Maybe an earlier one. But from the sounds of it, Karl still doesn't get the racing concepts I am talking about, and believes that ending someone's race is no big deal (ie "the racing line concept") vs. someone making contact while not only out in front but unable the realistically see the car behind. Even in real life, defender can only block, or be held responsible for it. I guess Karl seems to think that anytime you don't let someone through w/o contact that's "blocking" and that's a good example of what I mean about not understanding the essence of racing and how rules and safety go together. Too many F1 "blue flags" I guess that benefited Karl. That's a perfect example of how F1 (the game) has infested the waters of what we try and do around here. But who knows, I can't expect him to understand by just gaming. And I know in general, Karl, you are also not an intentionally dirty racer or even malicious, but you made a very poor judgment that cost me my race and you seem to think nothing of it, which concerns me. I can't really say it any differently. Sorry.

That aside, I accept Peter. Your wording of it is better and I know you are not a deliberately dirty racer. I apologize for anything I said that insinuated that. So we can put this one behind us, but I'm not scoring it, and the only way I would is if we re-raced it cleanly, as Chris said. Maybe that would be a good test. But I don't want to go through the trouble, quite frankly, when people still don't get it.

The incident at Abu Dhabi was simply described to me by someone I trust. And others like it. We don't have input from the most valuable member of the group as far as etiquette goes, so you guys are missing some very good input, but I get it behind the scenes sometimes. It was only meant to highlight that people who have "been there" so to speak, feel the same way I do...that this Autosport thing is getting way out of hand. I raise my hand as guilty too Peter...as we all should.

I know we all have life situations and this is a game, but we don't have much time, frankly. Let's do this...race the Shift race this weekend, then I'll still ponder Autosport. My time is going to be squeezed, so it's going to be tough to transition and spend as much time on the 360, but maybe there is a way. A good test will be Shift2 in any case, so if we continue to have numbers drop and aggressive racing, me included, then we can just ride into the sunset on Shift. Otherwise, we can try to re-run Dubai as a good test of whether everyone understands patience in passing or not.


Regardless, yea, Chris, I do agree that's the way to go (stewards) in the future, if this continues. But given the time issues and the strong feelings against my position by others, I'm just not sure it would be feasible. Shift2 races can all be recorded by everyone, so that's a big reason to only race under that platform. With the new review rules in place, of course. But with three of us recording races only in GRID there are gaps. Michael may get a recording device, so that could help. But I'd feel more comfortable in Shift2, since you can record right in the game, and then later from your TV. But even then, it's not perfect. Better though.

 

[Rob]

Series may be restarted by me (unless Peter wants to run it) pending issues to be addressed. However, in the event it is, sign up starts now.

Robert Waddell / OctoberDusk06

 

[Rob]

We've managed a season and a half of good racing and now because of one bad race we're all up in arms.

Done this since the start f the series Chris. And always suggested others do it too. Maybe they will listen to you. Karl could have avoided his destruction of my race if he had. Although I don't use it enough, you will see that it comes in very hands, so I agree with you.
But sometimes, even when you do use it, you have to get the bigger picture, as Peter and my coming together in Turn 1 demonstrated. That kind of thing can't happen and sometimes may even contribute to a move an otherwise clean racer would not make (crossing over 3 lines toward another car into a high speed corner). But yes, Peter showed in that instance, what a great tool it can be if you use it right.

 

[Michael Watts]

The only contact I had with anyone, was Railer at the start of the Second Race. At the start, Railer jumped to my inside before I knew he was there, and I was already closing the door. We went over the bridge and Robert called my Right Side and then I watched his Green Mini slide across my screen without contact and that was the last I saw of the field as I set sail.
The first race I was waiting for things to shake out between Robert and Karl and as they made contact coming into the quick Chicane/ Balcony I moved to the right to avoid and lost the rear of my car spinning out. Some how I managed to get back by Karl running the fastest lap of the race until I clipped the railing in the very same place sending me into the barrier on my own and ending my race. But I was 14 seconds back from the leaders. I hate that Karl had to catch a piece of my wreckage.
I've suffered from some bad luck in this series, but a lot of it was brought on my own aggressive driving. Pushing the car well past my threshold of talent just to keep up with the leaders. I have a bad race I just load her up in the truck and try 10 times harder the next race. I don't mind rubbing fenders as long as no one ends up in the fence or it ends someone's race. That's incidental contact in my book. ie COTA in the BMW E30. I left the inside open going into turn one. Railer had to use a little more of the track then I think he wanted to and we rubbed. No big deal, I left it open, I could have backed off but I tried to fight back from my mistake. Railer asked if I wanted the position back, but he won it fair and square, and ended up walking away from me anyway. I want to run hard but clean because I always feel like I need to earn my fellow competitors respect every race.

 

[Karl Fuss]

I say we score this race and move on as scheduled. There is only two left then maybe something else can be set up with the Hot Hatches or something similar for a short 5 race series. They are fun to drive and seem to create close racing.

 

[Rob]

I say we score this race and move on as scheduled. There is only two left then maybe something else can be set up with the Hot Hatches or something similar for a short 5 race series. They are fun to drive and seem to create close racing.

I'm not scoring this. Peter can if he wants to. If he does, I'm not running in the series any longer. This race was a non event in my mind. Worse.

But I agree Karl, we need to move on if we are going to. I apologize for the angry tone I took with you, and really want to just forget it. Despite what happened, despite I'll probably still remember it for a while, I forgive you, even if you don't think you need to be. You have been nothing but nice to me since I got here, and have been one of the biggest supporters of this series. That's counts for something in my book, even though we had a bad race.

So, as far as I see it...we move on w/o scoring it or we race it again. We could put it to a vote or Peter can just score it and I'll go on my merry way.

My vote is to race it again to truly find out if people have learned how to handle cars on a track like this and lower the aggression in general. And I'm not leaving myself out.

 

[Karl Fuss]

I'm not scoring this. Peter can if he wants to. If he does, I'm not running in the series any longer. This race was a non event in my mind. Worse.

But I agree Karl, we need to move on if we are going to. I apologize for the angry tone I took with you, and really want to just forget it. Despite what happened, despite I'll probably still remember it for a while, I forgive you, even if you don't think you need to be. You have been nothing but nice to me since I got here, and have been one of the biggest supporters of this series. That's counts for something in my book, even though we had a bad race.

So, as far as I see it...we move on w/o scoring it or we race it again. We could put it to a vote or Peter can just score it and I'll go on my merry way.

My vote is to race it again to truly find out if people have learned how to handle cars on a track like this and lower the aggression in general. And I'm not leaving myself out.

yes, we need to move on.

A wise man said something to me recently that sums it up pretty nicely. Defending hard leads to others having to attack hard, and that leads to incidents.
It happens in all the time. No racing series is immune to it.

 

[Rob]

yes, we need to move on.

A wise man said something to me recently that sums it up pretty nicely. Defending hard leads to others having to attack hard, and that leads to incidents.
It happens in all the time. No racing series is immune to it.

Karl, I want to publically apologize to you for not handling this thing in the right way. I have run many a series and I should have known that my little tirade helped nothing and only served to upset and further inflame a situation that could and should have gone to the stewards immediately. Instead I acted like a little brat, and somewhat arrogant, in claiming that I had all the answers. Well, obviously I don't. And you deserved better. You are an asset to this place, have constantly supported this series and others when many are sporadic at best (along with many other guys) and have been the guiding light in F1, where I know NOT going to the stewards has had the opposite effect of what you would think...to increase tension underneath the surface when it's just a game (there, I said it) and going to the stewards should not be looked at as a hit on anyone's character. I talk so much about "real" racing, but forgot the most important part...that disputes are always settled by a third party and not left to fester, even though lives are at risk. Or especially because of that. Michael is a perfect example of how to handle such an inquiry and I would hope to be the same way...not take it personally. In fact, that decision went against me, but I felt 100% better simply for letting someone else take the burden. Railer has been kind enough to do so and I hoe he continues due to all of his racing wisdom.

I remember when I first got here and were teamed up with you. I could not have been luckier. I WAS a disaster waiting to happen and have gotten marginally better, but you knew it took time and were patient and even encouraging. You helped out, jumped in other series' and agreed with much of my rants. So, just for my part, I'm sorry. What I think about the incident is irrelevant. I handled it (and Peter's too quite frankly, but he and I could talk via PM and work it out) poorly and I want you to know that. It will not happen in the future and the things that are not automatically reviewed (practically everything will be is my hope) should be taken to the stewards and nobody should feel like they are being personally attacked for it. I will not. Overall, your clean driving style speaks for itself. One little incident can't outweigh the mountain of races where you were picture perfect. Sorry again. I have learned. I hope we can still be friends, as I value your comments and participation. I'm just going to act like that mess,and I mean the whole race, just didn't happen. Hopefully we can all learn from it.

 

[Karl Fuss]

Karl, I want to publically apologize to you for not handling this thing in the right way. I have run many a series and I should have known that my little tirade helped nothing and only served to upset and further inflame a situation that could and should have gone to the stewards immediately. Instead I acted like a little brat, and somewhat arrogant, in claiming that I had all the answers. Well, obviously I don't. And you deserved better. You are an asset to this place, have constantly supported this series and others when many are sporadic at best (along with many other guys) and have been the guiding light in F1, where I know NOT going to the stewards has had the opposite effect of what you would think...to increase tension underneath the surface when it's just a game (there, I said it) and going to the stewards should not be looked at as a hit on anyone's character. I talk so much about "real" racing, but forgot the most important part...that disputes are always settled by a third party and not left to fester, even though lives are at risk. Or especially because of that. Michael is a perfect example of how to handle such an inquiry and I would hope to be the same way...not take it personally. In fact, that decision went against me, but I felt 100% better simply for letting someone else take the burden. Railer has been kind enough to do so and I hoe he continues due to all of his racing wisdom.

I remember when I first got here and were teamed up with you. I could not have been luckier. I WAS a disaster waiting to happen and have gotten marginally better, but you knew it took time and were patient and even encouraging. You helped out, jumped in other series' and agreed with much of my rants. So, just for my part, I'm sorry. What I think about the incident is irrelevant. I handled it (and Peter's too quite frankly, but he and I could talk via PM and work it out) poorly and I want you to know that. It will not happen in the future and the things that are not automatically reviewed (practically everything will be is my hope) should be taken to the stewards and nobody should feel like they are being personally attacked for it. I will not. Overall, your clean driving style speaks for itself. One little incident can't outweigh the mountain of races where you were picture perfect. Sorry again. I have learned. I hope we can still be friends, as I value your comments and participation. I'm just going to act like that mess,and I mean the whole race, just didn't happen. Hopefully we can all learn from it.

My move was ambitious. I know that and am and was sorry for the way it turned out.
Let's move forward.

 

[Rob]

My move was ambitious. I know that and am and was sorry for the way it turned out.
Let's move forward.

Agreed. No hard feelings. I still feel ultra safe when ever you are near me and, yea, that MINI took a beating mostly from my errors out of the dirt. I pledge to use my buttons to look around more.

 

[Rob]

Steward Inquiry an Appeal:
Chief Steward: Railer Cantrell
Associate Steward: Michael Watts
​

All drivers should adhere to the standards of driving that are outlined below. In addition, the Racing Rules applicable to all racing series' on Race Department apply here as well and are incorporated by reference:

ON-TRACK PROTOCOL
1.1 PASSING. It is the responsibility of both the overtaking Driver and the Driver being overtaken to
assure safe overtaking. Where two Cars are reasonably alongside each other, each must permit
the other Racing room. A Car traveling alone may use the full width of the racetrack. Overtaking
may be either right or left depending on prevailing conditions.
1.2 BLOCKING. Any Driver who, in the sole opinion of the Chief Steward, moves in reaction, altering
their line based on the actions of pursuing Competitors, or who selects a defensive line and then
returns to a racing line between corners or sections of the racetrack may be warned or penalized
pursuant to the RULES, and such decision shall be Conclusive.
1.3 INCIDENTS. Any Driver who, in the sole opinion of the Race Director, is responsible for: an
incident where a Car spins, or goes off-track, or suffers a flat tire or other mechanical difficulty
requiring it to pit directly for repairs, or an incident of contact resulting in a change of position,
may be warned or penalized pursuant to the RULES, and such decision shall be
Conclusive.
1.4 UNJUSTIFIABLE RISK. Any Competitor who, in the sole opinion of the Race Director, engages
in any behavior deemed to represent an unjustifiable risk or reckless endangerment may be
warned or penalized pursuant to Art. 60 of the RULES, and such decision shall be Conclusive.

CONDUCT
1.5.1. Disabled Cars. During an Event, if a Car is involved in an incident and/or is stopped on or
near the Racing surface and unable to continue to make forward progress, 1. A Driver must not approach any portion of the racing surface; 2. A Driver must not approach another moving Car.
1.5.2. Driver Egress A Driver exiting a Car stopped in a location away from the racing surface
should first communicate the condition of the Driver and Car to other drivers when possible.

PENALTIES
Penalties shall include, but not be limited to private or public reprimand, deduction of points, loss of grid position, if applicable, for the following race or any other race subsequent to the event in question, loss of all points for the race, loss of points in he overall standings, suspension, and ban. Note that the last two cannot be imposed without at least two of the other examples are first issued in a single season.

Each incident of contact SHALL BE reviewed by the Stewards (unless they are involved, and then review will be by a Co-Director of the Series that is not involved) and they shall try and reach a penalty consensus. If they cannot, the lesser of the penalties offered shall apply. Any event involving contact between drivers may be brought to the Stewards as an inquiry by any driver involved in the contact.

APPEAL
Any penalized driver shall have a right to appeal to the same two original stewards/Co-Director(s), with the exception that the Chief Steward or Co-Director shall choose a regular driver to form a three person tribunal. This body will either uphold the original penalty, or issue a less punitive penalty by majority. If there is no majority consensus, then the least punitive decision shall apply. This decision is final.

 

[Rob]

Note additions and supplements to the Series Rules here. These shall apply to the Shift2 Series also.