GRID Autosport GRID Autosport

[Bram Hengeveld]

Things are moving at Codemasters

 

[Peter Hooper]

Had the dreaded disc unreadable error again yesterday and this morning so may not be able to run this now. No USB flash drive connected this time so that's not the cause any longer. I'll try again later this afternoon but if it's still the same I'll be mia tonight unfortunately

 

[Michael Watts]

Well I managed to put 75 laps in today, but I'm nowhere near Railer in time. I think my best was a 1:18.81, but I think the car is as bout as comfortable as I can get it.
Sorry I didn't see your Reply Robert I would have jumped on but after all my travels yesterday the sleep monster attacked me and I kind of just passed out on the couch until late last night.
Anyway if anyone wants to get on around 3pm EST and run some warm-up laps I would be happy to host.

 

[Karl Fuss]

i was excited that i could level up with the RN challenge, but i find i don't need to do anything to the car.... i've had my fastest time with the default setting and nothing i do to change the car makes it faster.

 

[Peter Hooper]

I found that just opening the diff helped mainly. Slightly shorter gears too but basically I agree that down the middle is still capable of good times.

 

[Michael Watts]

Yep, I won, I'd buy all my racing buddies an Xbone and a proper wheel. Oh and one of those nice cockpits too!

 

[Karl Fuss]

race 1

 

[Rob]

"Race" 2 Dubai --

 

[Railer Cantrell]

Not a good day for me either race. Sorry to Peter for squeezing past you in the chicane. I thought I had gotten well past you but tried to leave you room but I see it wasn't enough room. I will take the hit on that if you want to protest. Race 2 what a zoo it felt like a smash up derby. I hit nibs in the chicane after braking hard to avoid Robert and I think it was Peter coming together. I hit the wall face on and never got close enough with damage to steering and little later engine.

 

[Rob]

Dubai "Race" 1 --

 

[Karl Fuss]

race 2

 

[Peter Hooper]

Second race was a car wreck waiting to happen... Felt like a Destruction Derby for the most part and not what I enjoy. Second half of the race after losing touch with the pack I lost focus a couple of times and made 2 stupid mistakes but was too far behind for it to make any difference anyway.

First race I enjoyed and had some good racing and give the benefit of the doubt over the couple of incidents in the tight sections. I won't be protesting Railer, I know you are a clean racer and take it as just a racing incident and that you would have been trying to give me room through there.

My races will be up in the morning.

 

[Rob]

This race will not be scored by me. After being taken out by two of drivers I respect very much for being smooth and clean, with an apology from one (thanks Karl, and yes, Peter, your ending of my race #2 did make a difference...to me, if not you, although I know you were frustrated at that point, as were we all), I don't feel the need to justify this complete debacle with points. The last thing I said was "don't even try to pass in the fast esses" and that should have been pretty clear, including the applicability to the first fast right hander...in fact, most of the track if you even bothered to run a practice race with A.I. All you have to do is watch the videos to see that was ignored. I'm not trying to single anyone out because it would be too time consuming and probably include everyone. 70% of the track is extremely deceptive and passing should not be attempted even if you have "a run" in these sections. Ironically enough, there are two very prime passing corners, and many drivers made good use of those. (Nice move Railer).

I know racing incidents happen, but this was appalling. I noticed from the video that Railer and Peter got bounced around quite a bit, but also did some destructive bouncing of their own...and I'm by no means blameless either. Either the lack of practice, the built up anger from the jump, or God knows what else seemed to turn most of us (except for Michael, although I didn't see his entire race) into lobby racers. If people can't take the series seriously (I know I must have spent 100 hours practicing, like many of us do...just so happened to be between jobs and have a broken Thustmaster until yesterday), and act like the do in F1 or, even better, on a real track, then I can do without either series. Probably for the better, because I will likely not be able to make some races unless the start time is moved up to around 12 noon US EST.

You would think that no mirrors, a limited FOV, combined with no pits would make people more careful, but the opposite seems to have happened recently. Four doors does not mean you have a green flag for sticking your nose in when ever you like. Nor does the fact that these cars can run with significant damage.

 

[Rob]

<deleted>

 

[Peter Hooper]

Race 1:

 

[Peter Hooper]

Race 2:

 

[Peter Hooper]

I don't know where you are coming from with your initial comment there Robert but if that's the way you see it I guess that's your prerogative. At what point did I say I didn't care about your race being ended? I never like to see anyone's race ended prematurely and yours was no different. It was unfortunate of course but just a racing incident. Watch my video and you will see how patient I was in trying to get past in that second race despite what had happened in the earlier laps between us. There was no thought to 'get' you as you seem to feel.

We were racing side by side all the way along the start finish straight after you made a mistake at the last turn and I thought I was past you until realising you weren't behind me and checking the side view to find you there. We both had the option to back out of that but I thought I had got ahead so kept my line until getting nudged which pushed me wide. Nothing to do with being angry, that's not how I race otherwise I would have retaliated earlier after any one of the incidents you can see in my video where I was put into the wall.

I don't recall too much bouncing as you call it other than a couple of contacts between me and Chris and me and Railer in that first race. But watch my video of the second race in particular to see some very bouncy driving.

I agree that there was some over aggressiveness at times yesterday and less contact is clearly required. You made a point about the first right hander but that was the very corner that you went in way too hot on the first lap in race 2, just missing Michael and ended up bouncing off the wall and carrying on straight into me.

This wasn't the best of races but it just goes in the book as such, points and all and we carry on with everyone aware that the racing has to be cleaner in future. Like I said in my message to you last night, I put all the incidents behind me and will just get on with it.

 

[Rob]

Peter, you seem to think the rest got "through" me in the second race because I was slow. I get the feeling you thought I was holding you up? Yea, makes sense after what happened. Well, I was running 1:19s and even some 1:18s and in fact was leading the second race (and could have competed in the first) if not for shunts, taps from behind, and being put into the wall. Do me a favor...watch my video, as I have yours. Right off the start you bang into my left rear. Okay, no big deal. I know you probably didn't see me or me (obviously). Then, you should have known I was on the right after the long straight since you clearly saw me pass you going into the next series of turns. Again, if you look at it from my video, I was not only in front, but didn't "bounce off a wall" -- I simply had to get left because I made a pretty good move into that turn and carried on straight until...I had to get right and had no idea you would try to force yourself in between me and the right wall, which then *did* force me to bounce off the left wall. But I can see that as a racing incident, even though I was a good 1/2 car ahead of you. We both seemed to me taken aback by that one but no harm no foul...let's move on, even though I had steering damage at that point. Now, if you look at my video, I was in 2nd at that point and holding up nobody, as you can see from the dots on my map, regardless of what you may think of my driving. Lap 2. Hemps the only one giving me a race. I then *do* make a mistake, but still retain the lead (barely) and even pull away again. (Remember, we practiced a lot). You are back in 4th, about 15 seconds away. It's really just me and Hemps at this point, having a good clean race for a couple of laps. Then, on lap 5, I get tagged by Hemps on the entry to the dirt. I'm sure he was trying to get around me, but I was clearly in front, and I'm sure he didn't mean to hit me. Besides, it *was* a passing area, and you somewhat expect those kind on moves there but it's still technically his fault. Oh well, I forgive, and move on...racing is racing. Hemps probably could have passed me at that point, but didn't. What it *did* do was allow the rest of you to catch up to me and Hemps. Contact is bad if you are in the right or in the wrong, and so we learn...but he did the right thing. So now, is this when I start holding you up? Just wondering when? So on we go...Watts is gone baby gone and you are at the tail end of a 4 car train, with me in the lead. I keep screwing up that exit on the dirt, I admit that, but hey, I'm not perfect. I did notice my fastest lap was 1:19.X in the first race...faster than any lap you ran in the 2nd. Strange, since you clam "how patient [you were] in trying to get past in that second race after the rest got through." Is it just a given that I slow you up in your mind? Always? Anyway, on lap 6 Hemps pulls the same move you did in nailing me to the wall, only he made sure he was clear of me before the right wall and somehow slipped between me and the left wall before that. Again, not a move I would advise, lol, but apparently he has the skill to pull it off, as risky as it may be. Except he didn't quite pull it off. He lost positions. At this point you are last, I'm still second, and Karl is now trying to get by. Point is, we are all very close and very equal, and you should know that, of all people. I don't doubt you did. Watts has employed Nitrous. (j/k). Karl makes a great move on the straight after the dirt and I'm now 3rd. Hemps gives me a love tap on the frontstretch and he gets past too. No problem there. HRH stands between me and you. He *knows* I will run wide onto the dirt and so he takes advantage of it. Stupid mistake by me, but a perfect passing area and very well executed. So three cars pass cleanly and wisely and it's now me 5th and you last. Is this where you get frustrated? I hit the wall after the dirt again, but have no idea where you are or even have any control where I go after I hit it. Are you saying that's my fault or something intentional? Then, on lap 9, you end my race. What gets me is that you look right...TWICE...and see my car on the frontstretch and still think you can make that move into the 100mph turn, knowing that I can't see you (you couldn't see me after all unless you looked right and I had a solid right to my line in any series, because the alternative was either just slamming on the brakes if I know your there, which would have been nice I guess for you, or taking my normal line, which I rationally did, only to meet your car in the middle of the road). The only alternative after that was race over for me. So you put me in a no win situation when you shouldn't have. At least admit it. I'm not going to protest, but I'm not going to accept any points for this race either. If you want to make the tables, leave me out. As far as I'm concerned, both of these races should have either been nullified or so many penalties should have been issued that the results would have been completely different.

As for your ending of my race, yes you did, clearly, put me in the turn one wall, the fast left, and the evidence is overwhelming...if a car was on your left that you can't see and are iin front of up until the 100mph corner where you both have to get far left or crash, then all the more reason not to force your way left of me. Since when is that a passing zone? Sure you can get a run on someone there, but it's the *next* corner that you pass. If you try to do what you did, whether you are alongside or not, you are guaranteeing a serious incident. I had to get left to keep momentum...come within inches of the left wall...but, no, you where there...so to my surprise, WHAM, we hit, and the rest is real easy to figure out...I go into the wall because I have nowhere to go. If you look at my video, when it ends, your car is pointed toward the wall, about 3 feet from the wall, with mine slamming into the wall. WTF? I know you pride yourself on being a clean racer, which you are, but sometimes you can't escape a simple truth. I mean, for crap's sake, I had no LF tire...did you really need to pull a move like that to get by? Were you that mad? For f*ck's sake, you see me exactly even with you on the frontstretch for the second time (watching your video). You are in the left lane of three on the frontstretch. and then you proceed to go from the left lane, to the second lane, then into the right lane. All while you *know* I'm there. What did you think would happen? I'd just go away? Well you damn sure made me disappear. So your statement -- "We both had the option to back out of that but I thought I had got ahead so kept my line until getting nudged which pushed me wide." is either just a flat out lie or a serious misjudgment. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If the frontstretch wasn't bad enough, you didn't even try to leave me any room between you and the right wall. I was a dead man. You saw me flip and were gone.

Sure, the race was crazy and full of nasty incidents, as we predicted, but the LAST person I expect to pull one would be you. I didn't make a premeditated action to pass you at 100 mph where I knew it would cause an accident. I have never seen you so angry and aggressive. Was it the first race that got to you? well, I had plenty of reason to be mad too, but Karl actually apologized. So all is forgiven.

But it was not just you. It was everyone. Nobody seemed to have put any thought into the track or even listen to warnings that you cannot absolutely, under any circumstances, try and pass in the fast esses. It will lead to disaster. And it did.

And if you are so keen on just getting on with it, then host the races, post the pages, and run the series. It's fun. But I'm done doing all that for something like this. If you just want to carry on, then be my guest. If I have time, I'll sign up.

 

[Peter Hooper]

Again Robert putting words into my mouth that I did not say.. did I say you were slow... not once so stop thinking you know what I am thinking at any given time. You are looking at this with rose tinted spectacles and for your information I have watched your video and Karls. I had decided to put it behind me last night and leave it there but you clearly weren't ,so be it We clearly see different things on our screens, that corner you definitely clipped the wall as you did on numerous other occasions and I was unfortunately on the end of the results several times. Could I have held back.. possibly on the first occasion but taking advantage of others mistakes is part of racing and coming to a stop there would have ended with someone going into the back of me... I couldn't just disappear now could I.

You were not in front of me going into that turn 1 corner.. otherwise how did I get a hit from the rear sending me right rather than taking the tight left that I usually did. Why do you not ever look back or across to see where I am.. surely that would be sensible rather than guessing? I went through that corner Chris and Karl no problem so it is clearly not as impossible as you think .I'll apologise for my part in the incident but take some of it on yourself too Robert.

Watch the videos again Robert, you were often coming across the racing line of others, not intentionally I am sure but did so nonetheless and that was the cause of many contacts too.

Anyway, I'll leave you to it for now... I have other things to get on with before reading the rest of your rant.

 

[Rob]

So, now I'm a ranter. And I was "often coming across the racing line of others...and that was the cause of many contacts." And I am "looking at this with rose tinted spectacles." Also you think that I don't "ever look back or across to see where I am.. surely that would be sensible rather than guessing."

I'm the one putting words in your mouth? Sounds like you clearly had a problem with my actions last night, and maybe all the time. Nice that you can tell me off and tell me how I do things wrongly, how poorly I drive, etc., but I put words in your mouth when I state facts. Maybe you should read the facts instead of stopping at the criticism. Here are the facts:

1. There was nobody behind you when you ended my race by shoving me onto the wall. So I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "coming to a stop there would have ended with someone going into the back of me."

2. The lap before you destroyed my car, you yourself were bouncing off gates, but fortunately I was far enough ahead of you to avoid the rebound, yet when I do it, it's bad form or something...and wrongs you in some way. After you destroyed my car, you nearly totaled yours Mr. Senna, under the hotel. Or maybe you just felt bad about what you did...that's what I choose to believe, because I still think highly of you.

3. Driving across three lanes to the right on the frontstetch when you know I'm beside you and then hitting me, in inexcusable and would be punished. Maybe you should brush up on driving across racing lines. Of course, you did it for the same reason I hit you...because you have no room in that turn for two cars unless *you* stay left enough to allow me to pass through, which you did not. Even then, it's nearly impossible to get through there at the point I saw you barreling through. The excuse that I hit you in the rear is a joke. That's like saying someone hurt your hand after you punch them.

4. After sucker punching me on the straight, and swerving across three lanes of road to do it, you still hit the right side concrete. (Of course, you were out of control because of me hitting you, of course). You effectively used my car as a buffer lest yours crash into the concrete. How is that giving me room when we are side by side? Your excuse will be that we were not, at that point, which is true, because I was slamming on my brakes after being hit from the left. My car stayed straight the whole time down the frontstretch, and yes it is possible to get through there with drivers who know how to give each other room. You evidently decided I didn't need any.

And the kicker is that despite the fact you were wrong and irresponsible to do what you did, you still make excuses and ask me to apologize after giving your own qualified one, unlike Karl, then ask me to examine my part in it and own up. I've explained that I feel I did nothing wrong. Clearly we disagree.

Strangely, the way you treated me and the way you treat your teammate in F1 (serious racing I guess) is very different. When you had the same situation with Colin at Canada, you said this:

"Came out to find Colin had snuck ahead and we were soon fighting for position which was good after many races where it hadn't quite materialised. Had a run on him down the back straight and with the inside line perhaps should have pushed through but opted to back out instead for fear of a collision in the chicane. Lost traction on exit and got the car a bit squirrelly losing a few seconds but both cars lived to fight on."

Very different attitude instead of being a bully and claiming it's just racing. Well it's not. That's not like you either. You are better than that. So the only conclusion I can come to is that you were pissed off at the aggression overall (as was I) when you wrecked me. Putting it behind you is easy to say, and sounds like the high road. The *real* road left me behind you, flipping over after putting me between your car and the wall.

Yes, we do see it differently. I'm sorry for that. And I do forgive you because I know how you are a generally clean racer, even though you don't think there is anything to forgive. I'll get over it too...someday.

As for everyone else, I do apologize if I hit anyone or did anything or blocked excessively. However, I was not F1 "slow" here, nor was anyone else. It's a shame we all can't have a clean race when we are all just as fast as the other. We have on many occasions before, but last night was very sad. My words at the start of Race #1 predicted as much. Why? This track is not a Tilke road course, Walls don't forgive. hen that's the case, we need to be extra careful and cautious. And I don't exclude myself. Two knockouts is sections that in no way were passing zones was a but much for me to stomach,I guess.

 

[Rob]

Peter, I do see what you mean about me bouncing off of the wall after the dirt and hitting you on lap two. That was clearly my fault, and I apologize, but in no way was it intentional. I really don't like to hit walls, nor does anyone else I'm sure.