Misc F1 2012 Realism mod

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snthennumbers

Thanks for the well worded explanation :thumbsup:
I'll make them changes later on and have a go.

Im using 3.1 version of realism at the minute...I know Demy recommends keeping his damage values but i liked having the cars a bit more fragile (like in the 2.5 version).
Have any of you been running this version with more damage settings and if so how does it run ?


You can run any mod with any damage settings you want - the damage settings are held within their own file (loose_parts_settings.xml). Just remember that damage will correlate with mistake rates found in the ai_choreographer.xml file. If you have higher mistake rates, obviously more mistakes will happen to the AI...which means they'll be contacting each other more. And if the damage settings are higher than normal (2's and 3's for instance), your DNF rate will be higher...especially at hard tracks like Monaco, where, with Demy's realism mod, the AI is more aggressive and holds their line longer...so they tend to bump into the barriers and each other more.

I've been using Montreal and Monaco as my test tracks as they tend to give good "extreme case" results given the nature of those tracks...Singapore would be another good test track, I just haven't gotten my "track_difficulties" setting dialed in for that track so I haven't been racing there as of yet.

So big picture:
Higher mistake chance values in the ai_choreographer.xml file means you'll probably want lower damage settings. Whereas lower damage settings means you can have more mistakes and more cars finishing, since the damage they incur isn't as much. Needless to say there's a balance here which you'll need to play with (along with that moderateDamageThreshold value in the ai_driver_config.xml file) to get your personal preference dialed in.


_______________________________________
And remydeleeuw, I'll definitely be making my rounds to these other modders asking if I can make a "roll up" package based on the work they've done. My issue is I see LOTS of mods floating around, and people having issues combining mods...since every mod has its own files associated with it. Hopefully once the 2013 mod is done, I'll be able to get together a relatively universal mod that works well. One-stop-shopping so to speak lol

Thanks!
 
To get the Safety Car mod to work with the Realism Mod you need to take the "sc" and "retirement" values from the ai_driver_config.xml file (from the SC mod) and paste them over the values in the ai_driver_config.xml file (from the realism mod).
There's also a "moderateDamageThreshold" value which you'll need to tweak to your liking based on your damage settings found in the loose_parts_settings.xml file. The lower the moderateDamageThreshold value is, the less damage it will take for an AI car to retire.

Then change the safety_car_chance values in the "track_model" table in the database.bin file (from the realism mod) to the values found in the database.bin file from the SC mod.

Then install the tracks from the SC mod normally since the Realism mod didn't modify the tracks.

I've done this, and also slightly lowered the mistake chances in the ai_choreographer.xml file (from the Realism mod) and the races I do feel great. With the 100% realism mod files, a 50% race at Canada usually resulted in something like 8-10+ DNF's, same or worse with Monaco. Now on those high-attrition-rate tracks the DNF rate is more reasonable. I haven't tested this on more "normal" tracks...but my guess is on an easier track the DNF rate might be a little low...something around 3 DNF's based on my mistake chance values in my ai_choreographer.xml file. But hey that's not too far off from real life right?



I might be a dick later and take the 2013 mod v1tek is working on and get it combined with the SC mod and Realism mod, then post a wrap up Mod that incorporates all the good stuff from these great mods :p Obviously I'll be taking minimal to no credit lol


Good luck out there
I see u seem to know what u r doing, I dont.... so is there a possible chance u send me that modded file .... I just dont know how to do all that stuff and my game keeps having probs when i try. :redface:
 
Theres values in the database called 'Track difficulties' which you can edit for each track to increase or decrease the ai lap-times for each difficulty setting.(Thanks to demy for this info).
Heres the editor http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/database-editor.51442/
Irishblanch Thanks!!! I have been looking for this parameter since F1 2010!! I have to say that is the first time I use the Database Editor and I find it really interesting, looking that I would like to do my own competitive mod for the AI
______
I'm worried to go OT, but I would like to ask if someone of you knows where are the files/values of the AI path/line of the tracks, because I'm gonna tweak it a bit for my own mod, as I said

Thanks a lot for these really helpful informations!!
 
To get the Safety Car mod to work with the Realism Mod you need to take the "sc" and "retirement" values from the ai_driver_config.xml file (from the SC mod) and paste them over the values in the ai_driver_config.xml file (from the realism mod).
There's also a "moderateDamageThreshold" value which you'll need to tweak to your liking based on your damage settings found in the loose_parts_settings.xml file. The lower the moderateDamageThreshold value is, the less damage it will take for an AI car to retire.

Then change the safety_car_chance values in the "track_model" table in the database.bin file (from the realism mod) to the values found in the database.bin file from the SC mod.

Then install the tracks from the SC mod normally since the Realism mod didn't modify the tracks.

I've done this, and also slightly lowered the mistake chances in the ai_choreographer.xml file (from the Realism mod) and the races I do feel great. With the 100% realism mod files, a 50% race at Canada usually resulted in something like 8-10+ DNF's, same or worse with Monaco. Now on those high-attrition-rate tracks the DNF rate is more reasonable. I haven't tested this on more "normal" tracks...but my guess is on an easier track the DNF rate might be a little low...something around 3 DNF's based on my mistake chance values in my ai_choreographer.xml file. But hey that's not too far off from real life right?



I might be a dick later and take the 2013 mod v1tek is working on and get it combined with the SC mod and Realism mod, then post a wrap up Mod that incorporates all the good stuff from these great mods :p Obviously I'll be taking minimal to no credit lol


Good luck out there

It would be great to have a combined SC mod along with the realism mod.
I am using both mods together (minus the SC database, I use Demys). All seems fine but after 10 hours of play I have yet to see the SC come out? Not sure where to go from here.
 
It would be great to have a combined SC mod along with the realism mod.
I am using both mods together (minus the SC database, I use Demys). All seems fine but after 10 hours of play I have yet to see the SC come out? Not sure where to go from here.

Because you need to change the safety_car_chance values in the "track_model" table to the values in the SC mod database. Then take the "sc" and "rt" values in the ai_driver_config.xml file from the SC mod and paste them over the same values in the ai_driver_config.xml file from Demy's realism mod. Then be sure to install the track files from the SC mod, otherwise there won't be any new safety car trigger events to cause the safety car to come out.

Cheers
 
Because you need to change the safety_car_chance values in the "track_model" table to the values in the SC mod database. Then take the "sc" and "rt" values in the ai_driver_config.xml file from the SC mod and paste them over the same values in the ai_driver_config.xml file from Demy's realism mod. Then be sure to install the track files from the SC mod, otherwise there won't be any new safety car trigger events to cause the safety car to come out.

Cheers

Thanks I will try that. I was told just to transfer all the files (except the database) from the SC mod to demys mod then it would work.
I will adjust the values as you said and give it a try, thanks :)
 
SC mod AI files have different settings than Demy's realism mod AI files. I prefer Demy's AI files which is why i took the SC values and plugged them in manually to the database and AI files.

I've actually tweaked Demy's AI files slightly as I found his retirement rates a little high
But I digress...

Good luck out there
 
SC mod AI files have different settings than Demy's realism mod AI files. I prefer Demy's AI files which is why i took the SC values and plugged them in manually to the database and AI files.

I've actually tweaked Demy's AI files slightly as I found his retirement rates a little high
But I digress...

Good luck out there

Maybe that would explain some random top tier drivers retiring more often than not
 
It would be great to have a combined SC mod along with the realism mod.
I am using both mods together (minus the SC database, I use Demys). All seems fine but after 10 hours of play I have yet to see the SC come out? Not sure where to go from here.

You could also consider moving to a slightly higher damage level than the one that Demy has in his mod. If you download the realistic damage mod by crommiel you can install a higher damage model in the loose_parts_settings.xml then the one contained in Demy's mod, which I believe is at level 3. I know a lot of guys who upped the damage levels to level 4 or 5 and are seeing better results with this. All you have to do is download the mod separately, and overwrite the loose_parts_settings xml from the one in Demy's mod with one of a higher damage value.
 
You could also consider moving to a slightly higher damage level than the one that Demy has in his mod. If you download the realistic damage mod by crommiel you can install a higher damage model in the loose_parts_settings.xml then the one contained in Demy's mod, which I believe is at level 3. I know a lot of guys who upped the damage levels to level 4 or 5 and are seeing better results with this. All you have to do is download the mod separately, and overwrite the loose_parts_settings xml from the one in Demy's mod with one of a higher damage value.

Thanks for the info. One question though, I did use the damage mod before I used the realism mod (set at 4-5) but what I found was when the AI tried to overtake me, any blocking manoeuvre from me caused them to hit my rear and they'd lose their front wing and pretty much putting them out of the race, I was just taking out cars for fun. I then changed the damage setting to 2 which stopped the AI's wings dropping off as easy when they hit me.
Since using Demy's mod I haven't gone back to the damage mod as I thought with the extra aggressiveness of the realism mod I might have the same issues again with the AI bumping my ass and losing its wings. Or does the damage mod play better with Demy's now?
 
Thanks for the info. One question though, I did use the damage mod before I used the realism mod (set at 4-5) but what I found was when the AI tried to overtake me, any blocking manoeuvre from me caused them to hit my rear and they'd lose their front wing and pretty much putting them out of the race, I was just taking out cars for fun. I then changed the damage setting to 2 which stopped the AI's wings dropping off as easy when they hit me.
Since using Demy's mod I haven't gone back to the damage mod as I thought with the extra aggressiveness of the realism mod I might have the same issues again with the AI bumping my ass and losing its wings. Or does the damage mod play better with Demy's now?

Let's just say this: with the SC mod for all the tracks installed, if what you described above occured, and the cars stopped dead on the track after losing their front wing with a little extra damage, you'd see many more safety cars deploy in your races, even if you weren't just "taking cars out for fun".;)

Give it a try, it can't hurt. If you find it's too much, you always have the freedom to dial the damage back a level or two ;). I play with level 5 damage together with the realism mod and of course the SC mod. I get an average 6 DNFs per race still, but a few more safety car deployments now than compared to when I played it with level 2 or 3 damage models, because the cars are more badly damaged now and can't drive off the track to a "safe zone" to retire.
 
Let's just say this: with the SC mod for all the tracks installed, if what you described above occured, and the cars stopped dead on the track after losing their front wing with a little extra damage, you'd see many more safety cars deploy in your races, even if you weren't just "taking cars out for fun".;)

Give it a try, it can't hurt. If you find it's too much, you always have the freedom to dial the damage back a level or two ;). I play with level 5 damage together with the realism mod and of course the SC mod. I get an average 6 DNFs per race still, but a few more safety car deployments now than compared to when I played it with level 2 or 3 damage models, because the cars are more badly damaged now and can't drive off the track to a "safe zone" to retire.

Another problem again.
I am using Demy's realism mod and the SC mod. but something can't be right. I carefully copied the track_model values from the two safety car tables (the 1's and 4's etc) from the SC database to Demy's database. I then took the "sc" and "rt" values from the ai_driver_config.xml file from the SC mod and pasted them into Demy's config. Then finally I installed the track files from the SC mod over too. I retained Demy's Loose_parts config.

Now with the results. I started a full career with Williams (100%) In Melbourne I had 6 DNF and no SC came out.
Then the next race in Malaysia, I had 8 DNF and no SC also.
Between the two that is a lot of DNF and I have yet to see a SC. And that's with two full races with hours of driving.
Is the reason I am Seeing no SC because of mechanical failures and that doesn't trigger the SC? Also the DNF's seem excessive.
I am new to tinkering with the files but I double checked everything and I made no mistakes in editing the tables.
 
Alright Chis, I'll clear some things up here because I've been noting down what values do what in-game.


First off, on large tracks like Melboune and Malaysia there is ample run-off room for the AI to move their distressed cars offtrack if they retire, so right off the bat it's going to be tough to see a safety car come out on tracks like these...just like in real life. You're going to need to see a large crash with a car stuck or sitting still on or near the AI's racing line in order for the SC to come out. These triggers are based on the values in the track files from the SC mod, as well as (somewhat) the values in the database. The SC trigger event is defined more by the track files than the values in the database it appears.

As for the DNFs, most of them will be due to either wing damage for an AI car, mech failure, or in more rare instances (more likely on tight tracks like Monaco, Singapore, and Montreal) actual crashes. You can test this by doing some flashbacks while the AI are mid-turn on a tight section of track...they'll spin out or crash and block the road

I've been using the SC mod and have yet to see the SC come out on any other tracks than the one's I've mentioned, unless I intentionally create a pile up. Just like in real life, it takes a fairly big event to bring the SC out.

If you're finding the DNF rate too high, you'll need to change the test_probability values for the mistake events in the ai_choreographer file. I recommend leaving the "problem", "failure", and "concentration" triggers as 0.01 as those have much higher effects on DNF rates than the plain "mistake" values. Each test_probability value is a percentage value in decimal. So a test_probability of 0.05 means that mistake will happen 5% of the time, per car. So be careful with these values too. I've seen some DNF-modders post their choreographer files with test_probability values of .25 even up to .4 (a 40% chance of brakes locking up? Or excessive throttle leading to a spin? Per car?...you can see how much that would effect DNF rate...)

These settings then get calculated with the values in the "Mistakes" and "Mechanical_Failures" columns in the "ai_driver" table in the database.bin file to determine the rate of mistakes and failures per driver.

So, the following are the values that I've changed and for which "ai" file:

loose_parts_settings.xml (my personal settings)

impact_player_immovable_modifier="1.0"
impact_ai_immovable_modifier="1.75"
impact_player_player_modifier="0.5"
impact_player_ai_modifier="0.5"
impact_ai_player_modifier="1.5"
impact_ai_ai_modifier="1.5"

ai_driver_config.xml = Demy's Realism Mod v3.1 with the following modified (I'm still testing with some of these values, but so far haven't seen any adverse effects while racing:

<hvOvMaxInterestingOvertakeTime float="7.0" /> à 15.0 (time AI will consider trying to overtake...sounds right to me)
<rmMaxLookAheadDistance float="50.0" /> à 100.0 (Gives AI more time to react to trouble ahead?)
<rtRetirementResetTimer float="50.0" /> à 120.0 (amount of time AI has to get back to the pits before retiring from damage that is less than ModerateDamageThreshold...I think)
<rsStallPercentage float="1.0" /> à 2.75 (% chance of a stall at race start)
<asCarInFrontYeildDistance float="2.0" /> à 1.0
<dfMinDraftSeperation float="2.0" /> à 1.0
<dfMaxDraftSpeedDifference float="10.0" /> à 13.7 (gives draft effect a higher speed boost I believe)
<rcWaitForAIWhenRecovering bool="false" />

Then from the SC car mod I've modified these values to:

<rtModerateDamageThreshold float="0.85" /> à 2.5 (still testing this)
<scTargetSeparationTime float="0.2" />
<scInLapLeadSeparationTime float="0.5" /> à 0.2
<scInLapLeaderSpeed float="33.0" />
<scBrakingPerformance float="0.8" />
<scCorneringPerformance float="0.85" />
<scMaxThrottle float="0.50" />
<scMaxSpeedThroughIncidentZone float="30.0" />





ai_handling_config.xml = Demy's Realism Mod v3.1 with the following modified:


<drsSpeedBoost float="1.1" /> à 1.05 (Lessens AI (and player?) DRS effect as far as I know)







ai_choreographer.xml = Demy's Realism Mod v3.1 with the following modified:
Mistake Brake Early Car Behind = 0.01
Mistake Brake Lock Car Behind = 0.06
Mistake Excessive Throttle Car Behind = 0.065
Mistake Brake Early Car Ahead = 0.04
Mistake Brake Late Car Ahead = 0.04
Mistake Brake Lock Car Ahead = 0.06
Mistake Excessive Throttle Car Ahead = 0.03
Mistake Brake Early Concentration = 0.01
Mistake Brake Late Concentration = 0.01
Mistake Brake Lock Concentration = 0.01
Mistake Excessive Throttle Concentration = 0.01
Brake Problem Trigger = 0.01
Engine Problem Trigger = 0.01
Brake Failure Trigger = 0.01
Engine Failure Trigger = 0.01
Tyre Failure Trigger = 0.01



Hope this helps you fix the issues you're having
 
Another problem again.
I am using Demy's realism mod and the SC mod. but something can't be right. I carefully copied the track_model values from the two safety car tables (the 1's and 4's etc) from the SC database to Demy's database. I then took the "sc" and "rt" values from the ai_driver_config.xml file from the SC mod and pasted them into Demy's config. Then finally I installed the track files from the SC mod over too. I retained Demy's Loose_parts config.

Now with the results. I started a full career with Williams (100%) In Melbourne I had 6 DNF and no SC came out.
Then the next race in Malaysia, I had 8 DNF and no SC also.
Between the two that is a lot of DNF and I have yet to see a SC. And that's with two full races with hours of driving.
Is the reason I am Seeing no SC because of mechanical failures and that doesn't trigger the SC? Also the DNF's seem excessive.
I am new to tinkering with the files but I double checked everything and I made no mistakes in editing the tables.

Ok, first to the database. All safety car chance values in the Safety car chance tab and track_model tab ned to be set to 1.00, and all max deploy counts in both the safety car max deploy tab and the track_model tab need to be set to 4.

Once you've done this, and you have all the tracks installed it should work.

About the other mods: I too have tried the exact same values as you in the ai-driver_config.xml combining the values as you have done, and it ruined my damage models and buggered-up the SC deployments. They don't seem to work well together when you combine them I found. So I deleted completely that ai_driver_config.xml (the combined one) and put back in the one from the SC mod which makes the cars not retire with broken wings and puctures. It seems to be working well again, but then again I only tested it at Silverstone, not any other track. My suggestion to you would be to choose one of the two different ai_driver-config.xmls and just go with that one that you choose, don't combine the values as it seems to bugger up the damage values and SC mod.

With regards to SC deployments - yes, you will not see SC deployed on first 3 or last 3 laps of a race, this is coded into the exe and nothing that we can fix with our SC mod. Also, if the DNFs are mechanical, then the cars will either drive to pits and retire, or drive off the track to a "safe area" to retire. This will not bring out a SC. Only accidents will bring out a SC, but the car needs to not be able to drive any longer after the accident, and the AI car needs to retire on the track, and be stuck there on the track before it retires in order to trigger a SC. If it crashes off the track and retires, in the grass area for example, it will not trigger a SC, as the game has this coded as a "safe area". I tested this with the trigger mapping I did on the tracks I modded - no matter how wide I took the triggers to encompass run-off areas and grass around the track, the SC would only trigger if the car was undriveable on the track and retires as a wreck on the track, nowhere else. This part of the trigger mapping on the game is also coded into the exe, and un-moddable. The good news is that the SC triggers I added into the SC mod now has trigger points around the whole track, whereas before it was only mapped for one area of the track near the start/finish line.

I hope this explains everything clearly and clears up a lot of confusion and answers a lot of questions for a lot of other guys here too.;)
 
snthennumbers and driveroz247 thanks to you both for this invaluable info. Really appreciate your time and I am learning more every day :) I will absorb all this information over the weekend, I am weary at the moment as my second race took me through the to early early hours of Saturday morning 4:30 am lol.
One last thing regarding the flashbacks. I did use a few, not many. I was aware of cars coming off the track on corners and I noticed it happen on two occasions so I flashbacked again to get them back into the race.
If you do use a flashback and no AI "within the line of sight front and behind" comes off the track is it possible some may leave the track that are "out of sight" if so maybe that could contribute to DNF's.
Thanks again guys. :)
 
snthennumbers and driveroz247
also a big thanks from me for this great info !!!

I can also confirm not seeing the SC deployed for most of my season so far,
with the exception of monaco were i caused a pile-up but got away without a penalty lol
Next race is singapore so hopefully will get to see it again :sneaky:

snthennumbers:
Ill give your settings a go when i get time and post back results :)
 

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